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  #151  
Old 07-12-18, 02:15 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser_0762 View Post
I have to ask SB_UK


You put so much effort into these interesting topics, but I think hardly anybody takes the time to read through them. Why do you expense so much effort into making these types of threads?

Look - 5 years ago and nearly an identical thread.
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143013


There's a problem - healthcare has no mind.


Personally I'm ashamed to have spent so much of my life around medical researchers - it has all been about 'getting on' ... ...

Any idiot can solve disease by just thinking about it.

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  #152  
Old 07-13-18, 05:52 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

This scheme would work - to leverage molecular genetics towards defining human health.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/pict...ictureid=12840

In effect it uses genomic diversity (good in the bacterial genome and bad in the human genome) as a measure of health.

In both cases I'm fairly sure that what we'll find is that we are using DNA state (sequence variation) as a measure of reactive oxygen species level
- where it's elevated levels (of free radicals) drive ill health.

DNA is simply REALLY easy to detect and so can be used as a proxy for oxidative damage in the body.

(Di)stress at its most general level --> leads to --> development of reactive oxygen species - calm oxidative damage and we'll restore health.

Seems hard - but this ^^^ molecular test can help - it'll be the 'readout' (what makes this study different) ie increased/decreased diversity in DNA variability can be used to assess level of oxidative damage going on in the body.
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  #153  
Old 07-13-18, 06:01 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

So - when you're partially responsible for the madness of molecular genetics - it is necessary to undo the damage you've helped to introduce.
The scheme above is a molecular diagnostic for health and people will sit somewhere on a normal distribution where the goal will be to move towards the left tail and away from the right tail where 'disease' state prevails.

A mechanism of defining health state prior to disease which helps to maintain physiology and defeats the paradigm of the day - of reversing pathophysiology.

But we've known for the longest time of physiological measures of health ? Yes - but these associate with cancer. Nobody's worried about being fat - people though are in fear of cancer. We'll be able to give people (the smoker in denial) information which shows that they're on track for cancer ... ... and help them to change.

If you're a healthcare professional then you should be working towards your own unemployment since that means that you've done your job and people are healthy.
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  #154  
Old 07-13-18, 07:28 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Here it is again:
Quote:
Within the last twenty years the view on reactive oxygen species (ROS) has changed; they are no longer only considered to be harmful but also necessary
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565025/

ie too little / too much ROS -> negative health outcome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../figure/f0025/

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ View Post
A key aspect of the pattern (from the three prevention threads)

DISTRESS <-too little eustress too much-> DISTRESS

So we've covered this in the neurone.
Too little activation - deletion
Too much activation - deletion

And more recently in autophagy.
Autophagy increases likelihood of life (repair) and also likelihood of death (recycling) ie there's a mid-point between two extremes which we're striving towards - the middle way.

And here it is again.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29607218

Simple language.

A little is required for health
Too little / Too much - results in a poor outcome.

-*-

Yes - but what people want to know - is how they can be sure that they're in the sweet spot ie neither too much nor too much exercise, neither too much nor too little food intake ... ...

EASY

As soon as you are free to choose (ie have nobody telling you what you should do) - then your own appetite regulatory processes will place you in the healthful centre of the distribution.

If we're in a co-ercive environment then we either do not want to have a go (for fear of being attacked as happens in science whenever you present findings to rapacious bosses in scientific disciplines) or you need to turn the handle 24/7 in order to generate a huge amount of data to satisfy your rapacious bosses in a scientific environment.

-*-

What am I suggesting ? Whether you're a formal scientist or not - there is NO scope for hierarchy in the human species. Social and medical epidemiologists Wikinson and Marmot have provided data to this effect.

As long as hierarchical organizations are supported - they will be kept in place for reasons of people in the hierarchy gaining more power (money/fame) - and not in any way have anything to do with the social benefit which they hide their existence behind.
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  #155  
Old 07-13-18, 07:39 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

What's my purpose in stating (re-inforcing) the (existence of the) 'Middle Way' ?

People think (in a capitalist society) that other people won't work unless they're forced.

It's not true - human beings can neither do too much NOR too little ... ... this is essential to understand as it removes the obstacle (the belief that people need to be supervised and forced to work) in dismantling hierarchy.

Much more so - it shows that there's a sweet spot which a human being need find and that this point (between too little and too much) can not be found unless the individual is completely free to do more if they want or do less if they're overloaded.

Now - all of this (ie personal engagement level) is operating to build either the rational, social or quality 'minds' ie capacity for making sense, communicating or appreciating sensory patterns ie the internal correlate of what we call science, social science and art.
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  #156  
Old 07-13-18, 09:32 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

I'll rephrase the 'Middle Way' using simple medicine.

We can either generate a need for more stimulant/narcotic (ie dopaminergic/opioid stimulation) where we know that paired dopaminergic/opioid activation (see wikiP/speedball(drug) is pleasurable).

Or we can generate a need for less stimulant/narcotic ... ... ... {as above} ... .. ...

2 paths.

2 reward systems.

One leads to resistance to endogenous stimulant/narcotic neurotransmitters.
One leads to sensitivity to endogenous stimulant/narcotic neurotransmitters.

Now - the middle path isn't the path between these ^^^ but the middle path between

stimulant -> <- narcotic ie to reach a point at which external activation of endogenous stimulant/narcotic pathways is no longer required.

We'e striving to get to sensitivity to stimulant/narcotic not occupy the middle ground between the two - which I'm guessing is the stage we're placed in at birth ie we're mid-way between the two states at birth, I guess.

Quote:
stimulant -> <- narcotic ie to reach a point at which external activation of endogenous stimulant/narcotic pathways is no longer required.
This occurs at wisdom state in Homo sapiens sapiens and represents the opening of the Doors of Perception (sensory information sensitivity) upon the mind completing and wisdom state being acquired.

Now ADDer is the next species on from Homo sapiens sapiens and represents the same type (ie Doors of Perception open) in ADDers (Homo neosapiens sapienses) from birth.

-*-

So all that one needs to know about ADDer - is that ADDer has the same level of sensitivity to information that we associate with wisdom state in Homo sapiens sapiens.

Of course - the wisdom state of a filled mind isn't present at first diagnosis (a few years of age) - simply the heightened sensitivity to information.

Heightened sensitivity - covered above.

What this means (of course) is that it's hard for ADDers to pay attention because we're surrounded in a greater informational milieu which we're required to handle ie develop cerebellar pattern recognition machinery to handle this flood of information which we're enforcedly placed within.

-*-

So ... ... what can we say about the state of mind of the ADDer ie it's not 'full' (ie no information present) like the wisdom state of mind of Homo sapiens sapiens ... ...
So - what we can say is that the form of collapse which occurs at wisdom state in modern man - imagine graphite hexagonal planar -> diamond tetrahedral conformational change of structure of mind - is given to (postmodern man) ADDer for free - but what that means - is that a certain form of education is required (ie one that hangs together) in order that the wisdom template of mind may be filled.

Generate a connected model of education to explain reality and the ADDer will be happy.
Won't be able to store information which doesn't fit the big picture.

Moreso - the ADDer has an advantage in gernerating this structure for handing off to other ADDers in that the ADDer can not be waylaid. The type of mind we have - knows when it's heading down blind alleys and shows no motivation in these cases.

Note that nonADDer mind can occupy itself with trivia - but there's an infinite amount of trivia for nonADDer mind to concern itself with - we mustn't do that or we'll 'diverge' ie won't come together with a common purpose.

The (ADDer) mind (by virtue of its structure) is a divining rod for a big picture which hangs logically consistently together.

We can't help it.

-*-

All of these ideas have been covered previously - and definitely hold.

We can't force our minds to pay attention to nonsense - because sense is enforced in the template structure of the ADDer mind.

Which isn't to suggest that the ADDer will be a 'great' mind - more likely that the ADDer mind will fail under a dominant educational establishment which teaches (yes) 'valid' data - but data that's of no greater utility (is neither here nor (eg professional sporting stats) there) in conferring a holistic model of understanding of every aspect of the illusory reality which people with material world attachment cling so dearly on to.

So - ADDers can't generate a mind unless the mind is built on scalable sense.
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  #157  
Old 07-13-18, 11:39 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

What's all of that in simple English ?

Ever look at somebody who seems to know ever so much about something that you're not in the slightest bit interested in ?
Well what makes a person interested in something ?

One can learn a system (any system like some branch of medicine, law or maths) and become a world leader in it.

However there're an infinite number of specialities each with an infinite amount of data which may be generated in these specialities.

It isn't useful to have that type of a mind ie driven by the desire to be powerful (a leader) in any given area ... ... one needs to strive away from molecular excellence into global excellence (followed by molecular excellence if required) ... ... and that's where society falls down.

Some people have incredible bodies of knowledge on what will be shown to be pointless trivia - none of that is useful to society.

What type of mind is useful to society ?
Any type of mind which is enforced to further the interests of the collective species.

That's all - a moral co-incident on wisdom mind - is the mind type that we require for the species to make a go of things.

But you've just stated that Homo sapiens sapiens may culminate in wisdom state (yes - it can - but who wants to listen to wisdom state if you're addicted to its opposite ?) ... ... yes but you've just stated that ADDers are wisdom-predisposed (yes - but wisdom predisposed in an environment which lacks wisdom, is, in effect absence in wisdom also).

OK - so we've a problem - we've 2 species of man running simultaneously on the planet - and both are capable of attaining wisdom - but both are prevented on account of social structure (hierarchical) and the profile of education which is rolled out to people - which reinforces hierarchy.

So wisdom isn't attained - when it is attained though - nobody listens to it and we've an entire species which awaits wisdom but loses its mind in an educational setting in which wisdom (ie morality) does not arise on account of the curriculum.

But education doesn't have conferring morality/wisdom as its foundational principle ?
EXACTLY.

So - you're advocating a return to the R world which we can't mention here ?
No - R is too hard - nobody understands R - it simply comes to reinforce prejudice.

OK - so how does one acquire morality/wisdom ?
Simply set everybody some homework ? Imagine you and your fmily don't exist describe an optimal system for everybody ELSE to live in.
Then hybridize your answers with everybody else's answers and you will acquire morality.

What's the conclusion (the social system) which arises from that train of thought ?
Simply all-inclusive local co-operatives generating physiological needs, connected by the internet to facilitate higher (mental) needs including access to rational understanding, collaboration and access to art.

rational understanding -> Systematizing
collaboration -> Empathizing
art -> Sensory

The three levels of heightened sensitivity which give rise to the 'new' currently emerging informational sensitivity capacity exhibited by ADDer.

Heightened Systematizing, Empathizing and Sensory capacity.
Definitely.

An incapacity to do what we're told unless we become intrinsocally better in a meaningful context - in the process.

What do I want to do ? To develop meaningful systems for individual/collective improvement in quality.

Definition of quality - becoming (learning) ever better in these three broad (Systematizing, Empathizing and Sensory) contexts.
It's how we're defined.
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  #158  
Old 07-13-18, 11:47 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
All disease is preventable
All that's required is the understanding that:

Quote:
What type of mind is useful to society ?
Any type of mind which is enforced to further the interests of the collective species.
Simple realization that the point of the human mind is the acquisition of morality and not just data - and the acquisition of morality (eventually co-incident on wisdom) - is all that's required to give rise to a chain reaction in which not only are all diseases eradicated - but all problems of man also.

All problems of man (including all disease) are of man's creation.

When we die - we needn't die following years of chronic disease - we'll simply slip away without ever realising that our time has come.
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  #159  
Old 07-13-18, 03:28 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
All disease is preventable
Over 5 years has past and it's still the same old story.

All disease is preventable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ View Post
Disease eradication by emulating Athos by eliminating hierarchy (money, legal system, ownership) and altering diet.

-*-


How do you know this idea is correct ?
Because there's no way of me personally gaining from telling a lie - unlike the entire biomedical establishment that have an interest in keeping you sick.


They're unemployed if you're healthy - and being unemployed is REALLY unpleasant in a world of only money.
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  #160  
Old 07-14-18, 07:26 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
Over 5 years has past and it's still the same old story.

All disease is preventable.




-*-


How do you know this idea is correct ?
Because there's no way of me personally gaining from telling a lie - unlike the entire biomedical establishment that have an interest in keeping you sick.


They're unemployed if you're healthy - and being unemployed is REALLY unpleasant in a world of only money.



Apparently not.


More than 5 years has passed and nothing has been prevented.
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  #161  
Old 07-14-18, 07:29 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

So if we are to run ideas head to head- and challenge the "all disease is preventable model", how do you handle the opinion of a dude 2,400 years ago who said that "3 things were unavoidable:? Old age, sickness and death?"

I would be really happy to see that one refuted.
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  #162  
Old 07-14-18, 12:01 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post
Apparently not.


More than 5 years has passed and nothing has been prevented.
The problem is that we are becoming better at generating data which can be used to make others believe that we are getting close to curing disease. Ask a scientist when nobody is around and across the board the honest ones will tell you that the only result of modern medical research is a statement of how complex we are. Had this conversation with many now... ... we are only showing how difficult it is to launch an intervention when something goes wrong. I haven't found one that believes in personalized medicine. Actually one who became very aggressive. People do not want to believe that their decision to eat, sit, drink and smoke are the factors that kill them.
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Old 07-14-18, 12:05 PM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunga Dorji View Post
So if we are to run ideas head to head- and challenge the "all disease is preventable model", how do you handle the opinion of a dude 2,400 years ago who said that "3 things were unavoidable:? Old age, sickness and death?"

I would be really happy to see that one refuted.
I am only looking at the cessation of suffering which need not occur with age and death. There is no rule that suffering must precede death. expat.. . look at how At how monks die and then imagine that if death occurs without chronic disease that At how lifestyle from conception will be better. Without any data I am guessing that dying in one's sleep without preamble is possible if we surf an optimal lifestyle. At how plus women is an optimal lifestyle.
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  #164  
Old 07-15-18, 03:39 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

Sad thing here is that epidemiology has become revolutionary anti-establishment thinking ... all that is required is a simple understanding of man which results in man taking the healthy option. Just realization that intelligence==morality extent.
Change education to assess generate morality. One question at school ... you do not existdefine a best possible world for everyone else.
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  #165  
Old 07-15-18, 05:57 AM
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Re: All disease is preventable

The Whitehall Study changes the world. All that we are required to see is that human beings grow depressed in hierarchy whilst demanding it minus mind hence morality ie mind must be earned before freedom acquired ie from addiction to serving and climbing hierarchy both of which are distressing to man with mind. Does everybody understand this now? Yes but what arewe waiting for? The nextnext financial crash? So basis to suffering is material world attachment overcome by morality arising from undrstanding the autonomous mechanism/pattern to evolution. It is easier to solve every problem of man than it is to find a job these days.
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