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Old 09-17-04, 07:09 AM
MindResearcher MindResearcher is offline
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adderall Tolerance/dependance

Hi, i would like to post, but ill try to make it short. TO start, I dont think im "addicted" to adderall. I though think i depend on it because it works so good, better than any other perscribed medication did. I started at 20mg, then bumped up to 30mg 2x daily. Then i found out 2 things. First, it wears off in 5 hrs, needing another dose. So then i end up with 10 hrs of full effect, and im out 6 hrs. So yes, i have taken a third dose JUST BECAUSE Of the wearing off effect. I never doubled my dose, or just took the 3rd dose becuase i wanted to. I cannot take adderall xr becuase my insurance wont pay for it.

Iv tried to take amino acids precursors, and other dopamine precursors, but not much luck. I took 10 days off adderall. It was not to good. I sleept for abour 3-4 days, then the next 4 i was a mope, just laying in bed. NOthing got done, i could not work out. NOw the thing is adderall does not make me high. NOt like oxy not like alcohol or other drugs. JUst motivated, semi social, very concetrative and makes things NOT boring. I aslo need less sleep.

ONe problem i have though and it is my fault . For the past few days, well last week, when i started up the adderall again, i felt so good that i stayed up all night inot the next. So my sleep got messed up. I can stay up 24 hrs easily. But if i dont take that 3rd dose, well, i may just fall asleep earlier right. BUt the main problem is that i wake up about 10am. I take 30mg of adderall regualar. Then by 5 i need another dose. So then by 10pm, when im eaither going to go out, stay home on my computer and o alot of work or have a few friends over, without that last dose, i dont feel like doing anything.

SO, i figured this. I have acess to ritalin. 20mg. I have taken it before and it seemed to work ok, it caused more anxiety, but kept me up and not sleeping,an i still got that motivated concentration.

Question is, and this is just a long shot, instead of taking that 3rd dose, take 20mg of Ritalin. BUt making sure a good solid 5-6 hrs goes by. If i want to sleep, thats not problem., i have enought klonpin and remeron for that. I actually did fall asleep a few times on adderall, because it does not wire me up that much, a cup of coffee seesm to wire me up more.

Now i know some of you will say, no dont mix meds. Ok, then how about taking say one week of adderall, then stoping for 2-3 days to let my body rest , and take just enought ritalin so im not sleeping?

Or if you think about it, dysoxin, methamphetamine is both a dopamine reuptake and releaser. Now if i took 15mg of adderall and 20mg of ritalin, would this be a problem? Im cutting the dose down, and due to the different mechanism ritalin has, it might just help me out more. If i try it and runinot a problem, i lljust stop.

I have been researching this for a month now. ONe person tells me to stop adderall and swtich to straterra. Well, not to be rude, but no way, hose' Will not work. Welbutrin , on the onther hand, an adderall user told me that he takes welbutrin with his adderall which helps it perform better.

THen there is always nootropic meds, some which are and act like psychostimulants. SUch as Bromocriptine, or another dopamine agaonist.

I just dont like the fact of tolerance. Plus, i plan on taking a break every 2 weeks, for like a few days, and i dont want to do it without something that will hold me over. Caffiene , even ephedrine did not work.

LIke i said , the most iv been doing is taking L-Tyrose and Dopa Poppers, which are natrual catacolamine precursors. But so far nothing much. Yes this gets very complicated. And telling someone , oh just stop or switch to a lesser med, i just wont do because adderrall works so well.

thank you
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Old 09-17-04, 07:20 AM
Sc@tterBr@in_UK Sc@tterBr@in_UK is offline
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What do you mean by "I have access to Ritalin", and does your Dr. know you are taking 90mg of Adderall?
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Old 09-17-04, 09:32 PM
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I know what you mean about the third dose. I take a third dose of dexedrine in the early PM because if I don't, I eat and eat and eat. It's not the fact that the dex is an appetite supressant - I'd eat even though I'm not hungry - it's an impulse control thing. I also like to get stuff done in the evening, if possible and I get very bad "couch lock" when I don't take my meds - I used to be able to waste a day like nobody's business - a dozen things to do but starting and finishing one task still didn't happen. It's due to the dopamine and noradrenaline shortage in my brain when it's in it's "natural" state.
30mg of Adderall at a time is a fair bit, but it's not excessive - some people need more than others. I doubt that you are actually dependant on it - more likely you are more aware of your ADD symptoms when you don't take it - now that you know what it's like to have enough dopamine and noradrenaline your symptoms stand out when you stopped taking the Adderall - does that sound about right? I presume that your doctor does know how much you are taking, since he/she is writing the scrips, right?
I don't think that taking a bit of ritalin at the end of the day is a real problem - some people do this. Since it is shorter acting, it would make a good choice since it won't hurt your sleep as much. As long as your not taking them at the same time and effectively doubling your stimulant load. You should also tell your doctor what you are doing, if he doesn't already know.
Tolerance does sometimes build for Adderall. The effects on appetite and the stimulanting feeling/euphoria do go away to some extent, with time, but the effects on focus, implulse control and sleep do not - at least according to my ADD doctor, and he is an expert. I figure I'll be taking dexedrine for a long time, and the thought of that doesn't bother me at all, since it greatly improves my quality of life!
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Old 09-18-04, 01:50 AM
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Couch lock!!!! oh... did I laugh! I'll be using that one! omg my gut hurts..

I too have experiened the dreaded "couch lock".... hahhheooohhehhe
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Old 09-18-04, 06:41 AM
MindResearcher MindResearcher is offline
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Gregstor, thank you for your advise. I posted such on another forum, and 2 people rushed to say ADDICT ADDICT, abuse abuse. Stop while you can. Well i dont need to hear that first, even if i was taking 200mg, anyway, i rather an informatable answer. YOu seem to hit it on the head. When i stop, i find out that Dopamine/Na function is the problem.
Now it not like stopping say oxycontins. They were 10x more addictive, causes alot more euphoria, and plus was not perscribed it, and if i did run out, i was sick as heck.
THis med i feel i need, because the outcome is positive. More work, concentration, slight mood enhancement, Not euphoric, but a scence of mental energy and clarity. I know tolererance is a big issue.
I started at 10mg 4 months ago. Went up to 20mg , then 30mg for last 2months. My doctor , knows i used to abuse oxycontin, and actually asked me that i may have add because i explained to him what i felt. Well he gave me the add test and i failed , and perscribed me adderall.
The day i started taking it, i felt it working, i became more motivated, more inspiration to do things and not bored laying around, More mental effects than just popping ephedrine, plus i dont eat as much. Second, the reason i take the 3rd dose is because i stay up about 16-18 hrs. So the first dose covers me for 5 hrs, then next dose 5, so thats only 10, at tops 12. so there is 6-8 hrs of awaking time without peak levels working on me. I dont just go to bed at 10pm. Plus if i need to get to sleep, i have ambien and klonopin an dthere is no problem taking them to sleep.
And if i was asked why did i use opiates and alcohol, for the last 5 yrs, i would say 80 percent was for social ability, and for oxys, i would have to say motivation, energy, and not bored all the time. THis alone caused me to relapse. Now that im taking adderall, along with a low dose of klonopin, like .5mg if i get a bit anxiouis, My cravings for opiates are down about 90 percent. SO its benifiting me in different ways.

The only negative way i can see is staying up longer than i should, causing lack of sleep, which i have done, becuase i just did not want to stop doing work online.

What is the most a doc can perscribe you? I would imagine 30mg i know, but 3x daily or 90 a month? Even if he writes me 30/30 20 ill be happy. BUt when i have to take an extra 60, this is why i have to get ritalin from a friend. He gives me like 20-40 month because he gets 200 or so monthly! Perscribed. So i was asking again, if i took adderall 2x daily at 60mg, then my last dose was a ritalin, 20mg, which i took and did not feel like adderall, or potent, but gave me enought ADD effect to keep doing things.

After reading some post that people take 90-120, i dont feel like im abusing it. I NEVER take more than 30mg at a time, which is probably the more abusing way, instead of just adding a dose, 5 hrs later. I once took i believe an adderall 20mg and a ritalin 20mg, with 1mg of klonopin , and did not have any problems, but i felt more anxious. ,thus i had to take that 1mg of Klonopin.

Another statement, i may be wrong, is that dysoxin, sometimes persribed for severe narcolepsy, which is meth, is sorta like taking a ritalin and adderall together? You get both the release and reuptake. But i know meth last longer, and im not sure how powerfull a dose would be , like 30 or 60mg of adderall, per dose. But as a guess, i would say a mod dose of meth is at least like taking 30mg of adderal and 30mg of ritalin at the same time, or more. Maybe 60. But i dont need meth or will attempt to get it. Now dexedrine sounds better , from what i read, pure dexro causes less anxiet and more mental stimulation and social interaction. But Adderall is fine.


THe only way i can see to improve the tolerance is taking dopamine agonist, naturally, like L-Tyrosine, or Munuca Prurrriens sold by pinnicle as dopa poppers. Some claims its 15% l-dopa, but who knows if natural supps are crossing the BBB. L-Theanine, NaDH, CDP-Choline and Phosphotydlserine also claim to increase Da.

A step above that would be taking A nootropic like bromocriptine, or someting like welbutrin or Amineptine. SOme meds you can order have either dopamine blocking reuptake or release properties. THen you have maois.

Well write back with any opinons you have.
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Old 04-07-10, 01:55 AM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

MindResearcher, I am no expert but I wanted to mention something. If this doesn't pertain to you, please ignore me, I'm only trying to point out something possibly helpful.

Do you take Adderall "because you have ADD", or do you take adderall to "treat a condition", for example, because you are unable to be productive without it?

I ask because in my case, I am very afraid of building a tolerance should I be prescribed adderall, thus, based on some posts I read here, I figured I should organize my day so that tasks that I am unable to do without medication would be done under the 6-8 hours covered by medication, while doing the easy stuff outside of these hours.

For example:

-Waking up, eating, preparing meals for the day, writing my todo list for the day, commuting to work... No medication.

-Once work starts, or timed 45 minutes before work, I start taking drugs.
-I am now able to concentrate on what is usually impossible to do (computer programming, studying programming, organizing or planning a software project).

-After 8 hours, assuming both doses no longer work... I stop! I'll do something else. Eat super, play videogames, get all ADD-crazy and read 25 websites, 3 minutes each at a time since my mind wanders too much, watch a 10 minute tv show, pause it and read, watch the rest of the TV show.

I don't speak from experience as I haven't received adderall yet but this is what I plan to do since I do like my normal, undrugged self... it's just that I can't do any work on it! But fortunately, working 8 hours a day 7 days a week (56 total) seems sufficient so I plan to do just that instead of seeking 16 hour a day coverage.
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Old 05-02-10, 08:19 AM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindResearcher View Post
Hi, i would like to post, but ill try to make it short. TO start, I dont think im "addicted" to adderall. I though think i depend on it because it works so good, better than any other perscribed medication did. I started at 20mg, then bumped up to 30mg 2x daily. Then i found out 2 things. First, it wears off in 5 hrs, needing another dose. So then i end up with 10 hrs of full effect, and im out 6 hrs. So yes, i have taken a third dose JUST BECAUSE Of the wearing off effect. I never doubled my dose, or just took the 3rd dose becuase i wanted to. I cannot take adderall xr becuase my insurance wont pay for it.

Iv tried to take amino acids precursors, and other dopamine precursors, but not much luck. I took 10 days off adderall. It was not to good. I sleept for abour 3-4 days, then the next 4 i was a mope, just laying in bed. NOthing got done, i could not work out. NOw the thing is adderall does not make me high. NOt like oxy not like alcohol or other drugs. JUst motivated, semi social, very concetrative and makes things NOT boring. I aslo need less sleep.

ONe problem i have though and it is my fault . For the past few days, well last week, when i started up the adderall again, i felt so good that i stayed up all night inot the next. So my sleep got messed up. I can stay up 24 hrs easily. But if i dont take that 3rd dose, well, i may just fall asleep earlier right. BUt the main problem is that i wake up about 10am. I take 30mg of adderall regualar. Then by 5 i need another dose. So then by 10pm, when im eaither going to go out, stay home on my computer and o alot of work or have a few friends over, without that last dose, i dont feel like doing anything.

SO, i figured this. I have acess to ritalin. 20mg. I have taken it before and it seemed to work ok, it caused more anxiety, but kept me up and not sleeping,an i still got that motivated concentration.

Question is, and this is just a long shot, instead of taking that 3rd dose, take 20mg of Ritalin. BUt making sure a good solid 5-6 hrs goes by. If i want to sleep, thats not problem., i have enought klonpin and remeron for that. I actually did fall asleep a few times on adderall, because it does not wire me up that much, a cup of coffee seesm to wire me up more.

Now i know some of you will say, no dont mix meds. Ok, then how about taking say one week of adderall, then stoping for 2-3 days to let my body rest , and take just enought ritalin so im not sleeping?

Or if you think about it, dysoxin, methamphetamine is both a dopamine reuptake and releaser. Now if i took 15mg of adderall and 20mg of ritalin, would this be a problem? Im cutting the dose down, and due to the different mechanism ritalin has, it might just help me out more. If i try it and runinot a problem, i lljust stop.

I have been researching this for a month now. ONe person tells me to stop adderall and swtich to straterra. Well, not to be rude, but no way, hose' Will not work. Welbutrin , on the onther hand, an adderall user told me that he takes welbutrin with his adderall which helps it perform better.

THen there is always nootropic meds, some which are and act like psychostimulants. SUch as Bromocriptine, or another dopamine agaonist.

I just dont like the fact of tolerance. Plus, i plan on taking a break every 2 weeks, for like a few days, and i dont want to do it without something that will hold me over. Caffiene , even ephedrine did not work.

LIke i said , the most iv been doing is taking L-Tyrose and Dopa Poppers, which are natrual catacolamine precursors. But so far nothing much. Yes this gets very complicated. And telling someone , oh just stop or switch to a lesser med, i just wont do because adderrall works so well.

thank you
~im going to type in bullets to give my input so its easier and my spelling sucks (this is just my knowledge im not claiming to be an expert but if you find it helpful then im happy. i have had similar difficulties as well so i know where youre coming from)

~tyrosine doesn't cross bbb easily if you take the supplement during or after a mean that contains protein, tyrosine will get pushed aside while other Amino acids are absorbed its not essential.

~increased levels of dopamine an ne will inhibit tyrosine hydroxylase (rate limiting factor). this means that no matter how much tyrosine you put in it won't convert.

~If the effects of the amphetamine are not having an effect then switching to Bromocriptine will not really help since part of the tolerance is happening on the post synaptic neuron. with increase presence of the DA molecules the post synaptic cell will start to down regulate the receptors.

~straterra haven't heard good things personally i wanted to commit suicide when i was on it in college.

~methamphetamine like you said is a reuptake inhibitor and a releaser. the releaser part floods the synapse with dopamine getting the. adderall and ritalin on prescribed doses don't do this. over stimulation of the D1 receptor increase cAMP levels which works as a second messenger. increased levels can cause endoplasmic reticulum stressed induced apoptosis. this means post synaptic neurons die and you won't be able to get that rush again.

wellbutrin seems like a good canidate alone due to it having a less effect on NE which causes much of the anxiety. Also when using with aderall it doesn't inhibit MAO which i think you mentioned later....I would stay away from those. bad part about wellbutrin is it lowers seziure threshhold so it can be dangerous, especially since us add people tend to over take our meds when we feel lesser effects.

Basically no one is very certain whats wrong in our brains and the thing is there are probalby considerable upstream and downstream effects. i say slowly increase your dose until you think you find something good, but don't do it to fast. if the higher doses don't work then consult the doctor and make sure he actually knows what these drugs do and how they interact. im sure every combination has been tried and we haven't heard any amazing cure story. i think adderall/ritalin is the best bet so far
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Old 05-02-10, 07:40 PM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

why do you need to be amped 10-24 hours a day? If your workload is requiring 24/7 output then you need to change your schedule, otherwise you'll just end up abusing adderall.

Work on behavioral skills such as organization, workload scheduling and getting as much productive work done during your two initial doses.

Seek out behavioral therapy and or a counselor and tell them what you wrote here. Tell them you want to use adderall in a responsible way and let them help with the external structure.

The sooner u help yourself, the easier it will be. good luck.
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Old 10-21-13, 06:53 PM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

Hello,
Yes, when one say, "Just stop!" Or "You're addicted," etc., it makes things worse and Ive been there MANY times, right where you are. Ritalin is not necessarily an amphetamine where Adderal is. For example, if you were to apply for a new job that performed drug screens, you would test positive for Amphetamines, due to being on Adderral. However, not with Ritalin.
Ritalin is within the "same family" as Adderral, but is Methalphenidate, not amphetamine based.
I am the opposite of you, but your story rings quite true for me. Adderral makes me more anxious, as I say "It is too intense" for me. However, 20mgs 2 to 3 times a day of Ritalin is great. I can sleep when I want and I have zero side effects. However, because my Doctor does not want to increase my Ritalin from 2 per day, to 3 per day, I find myself taking adderral on the side, so to speak.

That's why I can completely rel;ate with EVERYTHING that you are saying, except we just, or our bodies just, approve opposite ADHD medications.

Good luck and I hope this helps, knowing that someone is right there with you...
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Old 10-24-13, 04:30 AM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

If you want to stay awake, try Modafinil (or better Armodafinil if its available in your area). Significantly lower abuse potential than other stimulants, very good at keeping you awake, may also help with "withdrawal" when you stop.

However I recommend getting a prescription.
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Old 10-11-14, 04:14 AM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

Were you prescribed the adderal and or Ritalin? And if yes what was the reasons for the doctor prescribing you these medications? Just asking because I think I need it but before I get a prescription I want to make sure that it's something I actually need.
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Old 10-13-14, 04:29 AM
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Re: adderall Tolerance/dependance

Well you would only need it ideally if you have adhd.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Becks888 View Post
Were you prescribed the adderal and or Ritalin? And if yes what was the reasons for the doctor prescribing you these medications? Just asking because I think I need it but before I get a prescription I want to make sure that it's something I actually need.
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