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  #1  
Old 09-02-09, 07:23 PM
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One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

This is my last attempt to try and explain, and get advice/help/anything on this issue I have.

I have posted a few threads about racing thoughts, and how they are getting to be a real problem for me, and I am sorry if any of this is repetitive but I am desperate. I will try to keep it short and sweet.

Medications I am on are:

Adderall 20mg Xr once a day.

Wellbutrin 100mg twice a day.

I have been diagnosed with inattentive A.D.D., and nothing else.

I was just put on Wellbutrin a week ago to try and help the racing thoughts and plan on continuing to take it until I find a new doctor who will tell me if it actually even helps racing thoughts since I don't want to be on an anti-depressant when I am not depressed.

Adderall is on and off with helping my mind racing, usually I take it around 9 a.m. and I would say my mind is on one channel on and off until about 2, and then it just unwinds and I feel like my head is just a bowl of mush being blended at high speed....I describe it as feeling 'sick in the head'.

I really only take Adderall for motivation, and to keep my thoughts from getting in the way of getting **** done. Everyone makes a big deal about focusing, but if I really have/want to I can focus without medication, it is just really hard for me.

I am starting to wonder if I even have A.d.d.... what if I am bi-polar? schizo? anything!? I just don't even know anymore, there is so many conditions with so many symptoms I am starting to wonder if I am misdiagnosed.

The only thing I have found to treat racing thoughts searching online, was Xanax and Klonopin.... I have never taken either. They seem like medications you take as needed.... in other words..not everyday. But I need something everyday. I can't sleep at night, I have to take something to put my mind at ease so it will let me just fall asleep.

I think I have said all I can say... maybe when you guys reply I can give you any information I might have left out, but I would really appreciate it if anyone who has experienced this mind racing and found a solution, could give me some advice. Or if you have anything to say at all I am all ears.

I am desperate at this point, it is mainly the sleep I am worried about, I can deal with feeling crappy and sick in the head during the day. I can't deal with laying down every night, with my mind going and going and going.

So sorry about the length. Thank you for reading
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Old 09-02-09, 07:40 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

meds aren't your only option - what about counseling? Perhaps there's another reason for your racing thoughts?
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Old 09-02-09, 07:43 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68488 simple temp fix for chattery and racing thoughts

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61092 brain chatter racing thoughts same thing?

These are a couple of old posts, not sure if you've seen them. Racing thoughts is a symptom of ADHD and has been spoken of by quite a few members. Maybe it's the whole back to school thing that is keeping some of them away from the forums.

Best I can do to help you.

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Old 09-02-09, 07:46 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

Oops found one more.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14681 Brain chatter can't sleep
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Old 09-02-09, 08:18 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

This is something I haven't had to deal with in a long time, it's horrible and I really sympathize.

In my own case it was related to anxiety. I ended up doing a short course in meditation and relaxation exercises, which in essence is about controlling breath, being aware of breath and thought and then eventually taking control of the chaotic flow. In identifying the triggers, you eventually come to be able to avoid and control them.
It was extremely helpful in my own case, and can be done in bed every night before sleep. There are many many books and audiotapes available, and can be found in most bookstores.

The comments you made about Xanax/tranquilizers hold true, it's not viable or desirable to use them daily.
I would only say that in the interim period when it feels really out of control and you are exhausted, it can be an aid for getting yourself into a less fraught headspace, regrouping, then making a fresh,rested attempt at mastering the problem at hand.
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Old 09-02-09, 08:21 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

Have you considered the possibility that it's the stimulant causing the racing thoughts? It is a well documented and very common side effect of stimulants, and in fact it's almost definitive in most populations.

You're saying you're taking the Adderall primarily for motivation, and not for focus, though stimulants by definition help everyone with that (the only thing that the paradoxical reaction is paradoxical about is that it helps people with hyperactivity sit still, whereas they give most people the jitters).

You may want to consider discontinuing the stimulant for a few days and seeing if the racing thoughts subside.

For example,
Quote:
Adderall is on and off with helping my mind racing, usually I take it around 9 a.m. and I would say my mind is on one channel on and off until about 2, and then it just unwinds and I feel like my head is just a bowl of mush being blended at high speed....I describe it as feeling 'sick in the head'.
This doesn't sound like it's helping with racing thoughts. This sounds like it's focusing the racing thoughts onto one or two subjects, something that's entirely typical of stimulants in both ADHD and non-ADHD populations. You don't ever say "Adderall slows my mind down." You specifically say "Adderall focuses my thoughts to one or two channels."

See another psychiatrist and have your medications reevaluated. Racing thoughts aren't diagnostically typical of inattentive type ADHD. They're entirely typical of "taking amphetamines." All tweakers have racing thoughts. From the sound of it, you were diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type when in fact there is something else in play (generalized anxiety, for example) or nothing else at all in play (misdiagnosis due to confirmation bias), and the amphetamine you're taking is causing your thoughts to race, which is what stimulants do.

I wouldn't be so adamant about this if "racing thoughts" weren't a primary effect of taking a stimulant.
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Old 09-02-09, 08:54 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

Wow, I didn't expect to get so many replies.

Alright where do i start. I'll try my best.

Meditation/relaxation is HARD for me, I think I need books or someone to tell me how to even start the process, the thoughts don't let me, they keep knocking at the door and won't shut up.

Kmiller, the Adderall does NOT slow my mind down, I feel like I need something in combination with the Adderall to slow my mind down....even/balance things out, fill the gaps in my mind.

When I was diagnosed I was 100% positive, I mean I show SO many signs of inattentive, well I did... maybe I should get reevaluated.

Yes, the adderall focuses the racing thoughts on one or two subjects you are exactly right. Then it wears off and I am back to 10 subjects a second. I have taken many breaks from adderall and I never remember having a slow at ease mind....ever...I have always self medicated with pot, which helped me long after smoking (hours after coming down) I took a 3 day break, which I know isn't much, just this week and again, racing thoughts were just as bad or worse.

livinginchaos, I don't mean to sound like I am seeking meds, I am open to anything... but I don't understand how counseling would help me. I have been there done that, how does talking to someone help my mind racing?

I feel like it is just how I am, but then I have no idea.. I am really confused about everything and I don't know what I need, what doctor to see... I try asking my mom for her opinion and I just can't explain it to her, or any one else for that matter. This forum is the only place where I feel people understand at least halfway of what I am talking about.

And I want to say, the thoughts are not always fast paced, I can be thinking about something for like 10 seconds, then I think about something totally unrelated and think about that for a while. At it's worst I start thinking about something and 10 seconds later I don't remember what I thought about for 10 seconds because I thought about so many things. But ALWAYS, the thoughts are almost in no way related... I guess they must be since one has to lead to another somehow....but they just....AHHH loss of words. i dont know.

I will check out those posts soon ginnie.
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Old 09-02-09, 09:01 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

Just read those posts,the 2nd link is exactly what I am talking about....

Lol, I have tried the writing in a journal thing...aghh my mind just never runs out of material, I write whole pages on my livejournal and still manage to keep coming up with thoughts.... I just need to SLOW things down up there... my mind is hyper.

I am pretty sure I have social anxiety... I have a thread about it. But i don't know if anxiety causes this sort of thing? I would love to find the trigger... but what if it is just how I am
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Old 09-02-09, 09:14 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

counseling could help - especially if you can find a therapist who can teach you how to meditate or body scan.
This is what I'm currently learning how to do so I can get to sleep.

i don't know about you, but often my brain chatters due to anxiety.
I'm learning how to deal with my anxiety through meditation and body scans and also to let it all out in my sessions.

Another thing that was recommended to me is journaling your thoughts.
(I was told) Often, if you can write it down your brain will calm down because you just get it out.
I have had some luck with this, but I'm not good at journaling on a routine basis.
So many people think journaling means "dear diary" but it can be rubbish.
I just write down what my brain chatter is saying, it doesn't always make sense.

It doesn't seem to me like you're just seeking meds. I think meds can help (I take some myself - I'm not anti-med by any means), but they don't always help.
I'm a big advocate of learning skills to help you out.
We can't always depend on meds.
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Old 09-02-09, 09:51 PM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

I can't stress enough that stimulants are pretty much the worst thing you can put someone on who is having problems with racing thoughts or other manic-type symptoms.
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Old 09-03-09, 02:06 AM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMiller View Post
I can't stress enough that stimulants are pretty much the worst thing you can put someone on who is having problems with racing thoughts or other manic-type symptoms.
Well I tend to believe that stimulants are not nearly as bad for manic type symptoms as the damn antidepressants - Antidepressants actually CAUSE mania for me - which would not be so bad if I was at lest a half a** pleasant manic but nooo.


I am gathering that the racing thoughts have been a life time issue for the OP?? If not then it may be a medication issue. If racing thoughts are some thing that has been a problem the OP's entire life then we are talking ADD.


Some thing I learned during a medication induced mania - that there is a difference between manic racing thoughts, anxiety produced racing thought and ADD racing thoughts. . I have found in my case that racing thought induced by mania "slammed" into my head - they were intrusive some time to the point of painful -

The anxiety produced racing was more along the lines of worry - constantly scanning scanning scanning looking for that disaster lurking behind every corner - worrying things like who will feed my cats if I died.

ADD racing thoughts sort of "slip" in there - I will be concentrating on "A" and next thing I know my mind has wandered off completely leaving the alphabet without me even knowing it was happening.

With ADD racing thoughts I am unaware of the passage of time, anxiety seems to slow time down at night speed it up during the day and mania I am aware of time to the point of annoyance

This has been my personal experience which may or may not be useful to the OP. I have been thrown into mania by medications and I have anxiety {thank you perimenopause} along with ADD . . . . . Gary doesn't have anxiety or mania, he doesn't take medications yet he has a brain that chatters at night keeping him from being able to go to sleep - so it can be caused by ADD.
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Old 09-03-09, 08:03 AM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

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ADD racing thoughts sort of "slip" in there - I will be concentrating on "A" and next thing I know my mind has wandered off completely leaving the alphabet without me even knowing it was happening.
Your description describes lack of focus and distractibility - two classic symptoms of ADHD - not racing thoughts.

The descriptions of racing thoughts you give as symptomatic of anxiety and of mania are indeed descriptions of racing thoughts. You've failed to describe racing thoughts here, however. You've simply described poor attention and renamed it "racing thoughts."

Whether the OP has had symptoms of racing thoughts before medication or not (something that is impossible to judge now that they are taking medication, because retrospection of symptoms tends towards confirmation bias, that is, we tend to conflate "how we are now" with "how we have always been") is irrelevant here. Even if they did demonstrate said symptoms (and they're documented beforehand, for instance, in the intake evaluation for the patient), racing thoughts are not diagnostic symptoms of ADHD. They're a red herring at best, as racing thoughts indicate anxiety or mania, not ADHD, from a clinical perspective.

And all of this aside,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adderall XR Prescribing Information
Treatment emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania [Keith Note: or racing thoughts (Symptom B4)] in children and adolescents without prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses.
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Old 09-04-09, 05:48 AM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMiller View Post
Your description describes lack of focus and distractibility - two classic symptoms of ADHD - not racing thoughts.

The descriptions of racing thoughts you give as symptomatic of anxiety and of mania are indeed descriptions of racing thoughts. You've failed to describe racing thoughts here, however. You've simply described poor attention and renamed it "racing thoughts."

Whether the OP has had symptoms of racing thoughts before medication or not (something that is impossible to judge now that they are taking medication, because retrospection of symptoms tends towards confirmation bias, that is, we tend to conflate "how we are now" with "how we have always been") is irrelevant here. Even if they did demonstrate said symptoms (and they're documented beforehand, for instance, in the intake evaluation for the patient), racing thoughts are not diagnostic symptoms of ADHD. They're a red herring at best, as racing thoughts indicate anxiety or mania, not ADHD, from a clinical perspective.

And all of this aside,
I feel like you are attempting to talk down to me.I disagree with you and I still do – so what? some times that happens.

I normally have good reason for holding the opinion that I do , More times than not I base my opinion on sound information or at the very least some resemblance of logic.


By the way please DO include all of the information and hyperlink to your source. It isn't up to the reader to look up your source material.

However allow me to insert what you left out of your Adderall xr prescribing information.

Emergence of New Psychotic or Manic Symptoms

Treatment emergent psychotic or manic symptoms, e.g., hallucinations, delusional thinking, or mania in children and adolescents without prior history of psychotic illness or mania can be caused by stimulants at usual doses. If such symptoms occur, consideration should be given to a possible causal role of the stimulant, and discontinuation of treatment may be appropriate. In a pooled analysis of multiple short-term, placebo-controlled studies, such symptoms occurred in about 0.1% (4 patients with events out of 3482 exposed to methylphenidate or amphetamine for several weeks at usual doses) of stimulant-treated patients compared to 0 in placebo-treated patients.

English translation - The chances of having mania /psychotic symptoms due to the use of Adderall xr at therapeutic does is less than one percent. { 0.1% means one-tenth of one percent.} That hardly qualifies for "primary or even common side effect" even in non-clinical discussions

Okay enough of that . . . .. on with the topic

Now to the OP

Do yourself a favor - find a doctor that knows his a** from a hole in the ground. You are at an age where the symptoms you describe could be caused by several things that are treated differently.

You owe it to your self to have some one who is competent evaluate you. Any doctor worth a crap should be asking definitive questions -

An example -to have you describe "racing thoughts" - As demonstrated in this thread the definition of this can vary. Most people do NOT speak in "clinically accurate" terms - A decent doctor knows this and adjust accordingly by asking the person to describe exactly what they mean.

Some docs do testing - others may send you to a psychologist to do the testing. Some docs don't use formal testing but have their own ways of observing your symptoms and getting your history.

Either way the doctor should ask portent questions and have something resembling a conversation. I do not give a damn how much education a doctor has he/she doesn't know your symptoms as well as you do A good doc acknowledges this by asking questions and listening to the answers

Some where toward the diagnosis phase

The doctor should explain what he/she thinks is causing your symptoms, why they think this and recommend treatment options. All of this should be done in a language you understand { in other wards plain English not some medical gibberish}

Some times the doctor will have a nurse do the patient education part.

Your age should not be a factor in being treated in a professional manner. It is your body, your brain and your life this means you still have a right to know what is going on - even if you are under 18

The more a person understands their conditions and treatment the more likely they are to comply with treatments . Any medical profession worth their weight in salt knows this.


Last of all use you own descriptions - don't barrow from me , KMiller or any one else - rehearsed stuff throws genuine information in a questionable light and simply adds to the problem. Use your own words and descriptions.


Last of all please do not substitute any thing we write for professional medical advice {even sort of crappy professional medical advice}

I know you think you doc is an idiot - and frankly those who fail to listen to their patients are - He has at the very least met you in person.

With that being said I think you are on the right track. Getting a doctor who seems to give a shait sounds like a very good plan. I know that is the one I would be choosing.

Best of luck and keep us posted on how that new doc appointment goes.
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Old 09-04-09, 06:24 AM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

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I can't stress enough that stimulants are pretty much the worst thing you can put someone on who is having problems with racing thoughts or other manic-type symptoms.
I thought Dr. Amen's explanation in one of his books was that adults and children who have ADD/ADHD have a deficit of certain brain enzymes to the prefrontal cortex, and this explains the inability of focus, and can contribute to constant "racing" thoughts. Which is why prescribing a stimulant often helps the prefrontal cortex to "focus" and get these problems under control.

Perhaps if you are on a stimulant for ADD/ADHD and this doesn't stop the mind-racing, you have another issue? Or maybe you aren't on the right dose of medication? (sorry to leave this hanging here, but I am new and don't have a lot of knowledge to offer as yet)
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Old 09-04-09, 08:44 AM
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Re: One last try to explain myself, and get help. mind racing/medications/etc.

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Originally Posted by Krendarian View Post
I thought Dr. Amen's explanation in one of his books was that adults and children who have ADD/ADHD have a deficit of certain brain enzymes to the prefrontal cortex, and this explains the inability of focus, and can contribute to constant "racing" thoughts. Which is why prescribing a stimulant often helps the prefrontal cortex to "focus" and get these problems under control.

Perhaps if you are on a stimulant for ADD/ADHD and this doesn't stop the mind-racing, you have another issue? Or maybe you aren't on the right dose of medication? (sorry to leave this hanging here, but I am new and don't have a lot of knowledge to offer as yet)

Just because someone does not respond well to a stimulant doesn't mean they don't have add/adhd.... the chemicals were made for the condition, the condition wasn't made for the chemicals.


And everyone is talking about this frontal cortex or whatever, when I went to my last psych she said I had a fully developed frontal cortex.. or frontal something.. what does that mean? she said most people don't develop it until mid 20's or something.

Yesterday and today I haven't taken anything... I have to tell you I feel ****ing amazing. I need to mow the lawn though and just thinking about it makes me want to go to sleep, I live on 5 acres. Other than motivation, I feel good.. my head feels alot clearer... but I am wondering if the adderall hasn't fully got out of my system, or if it left some behavior patterns in me or something because this seems too good to be true and it has happened before. I really think I am done with the wellbutrin. It just doesn't make any sense and I am not going to do anything I don't want to do, I try talking to both my parents and there is no support, my mom thinks i am depressed and shes trying to force anti depressants on me making them sound like they will help me just to deceive me. My dad thinks I am full of **** and I just need to work and get off my ***..... and then I'll be able to sleep, but he doesn't believe me when I tell him I do work all day. I feel helpless, and I just really need a good doctor, that is my only way out of this stressful situation that I can see.
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The most loving parents and relatives commit murder with smiles on their faces. They force us to destroy the person we really are: a subtle kind of murder.
- Jim Morrison.

Last edited by odsybmx734; 09-04-09 at 08:51 AM.. Reason: forgot
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