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  #16  
Old 01-11-17, 06:29 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Originally Posted by john2100 View Post
I've been planning to organize my garage for 2yrs.
Still planning,getting there....I'ts still scheduled for to next week.

Why are they staying anyway for such long time ?
What are you gonna do if it happens again in a month?
Well...because they like us.

Also they are here to help me out and they do a lot of work. Household chores I mean. It won't happen in a month but it might happen later this year again.

I told my dad to please not stay so long again next time but maybe I should have explicitly named a specific amount of time..like not more than months in total but I just couldn't.
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Old 01-11-17, 06:33 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
Well j don't want to push it too much and make them feel unwanted. That's the big dilemma for me. I can cope with a few weeks extra if thst means they don't get hurt. I think.
They ARE unwanted!!!

It's all right to let them know that. In fact, it's essential.
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  #18  
Old 01-11-17, 06:34 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Originally Posted by acdc01 View Post
They would have to to book their plane tickets already wouldn't they have? If so, I think they really are leaving and you can relax.

From what you wrote about your dad. The way he guilts you and your sister and makes threats when he doesn't get his way - well its extremely manipulative regardless of if he's a good dad in other ways. He's learned manipulating you works so he'll probably continue to do it.

I'd personally work on ways to change the pattern between you and your dad in the future. I believe you can stop this pattern. My dad is actually a lot like yours and me and my sisters have found things that work so I have hope you can too.
Yes he's quite openly quite manipulative but when can I do?? Not get manipulated??

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Originally Posted by dvdnvwls View Post
It's likely that your parents have ADHD or other things.

It's also very obvious that your parents normally ignore your needs and make decisions that help no one.

Next week is probably fine, but as others have said, you will have to "police" that yourself; they're very likely to ignore it as they have in the past.

You've conditioned yourself since childhood to continue trusting them even when they prove over and over again that they can't be trusted. Don't suddenly be hostile to them because that won't help, but the core of the matter is that you need to stop trusting your parents and start policing them.
I trust that they love me and want my beat even if they can't see what is best for me (or believe me when I tell them) or can't provide that for me.

They don't ask for anything else really. Just to stay with me whenever and how long they want.


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Originally Posted by Little Nut View Post
Fuzz, Just an aside; With them being your parents, I wouldn't be surprised that they knew you were upset for quite some time, but finally realized their continued presence was what was upsetting you. In any event this may be an opportunity to open up a way to comfortably communicate future issues that may pop up.

You could start it w/ something like Dad, I was reluctant to mention this because I was afraid you'd be hurt or overreact. At first I was happy you guys came but after awhile I was ready for you guys to leave, but I couldn't bring myself to tell you or Ma that out of fear of damaging our relationship. I am feeling terrible now because at first I was just really happy that you were leaving and later I realized I shouldn't feel that way about my folks. Hopefully they would jump in and say Dear, we knew you were upset, but didn't know why. We finally figured it out after we overheard you and your hubby talking. Next time , pls just tell your Mom and I. The last thing we want is to upset our little girl that much.

Just a mental rambling on my part. -LN
I can't imagine having a sentimental conversation like that. I'd feel super awkward.

Also they neither listen to me nor understand me when they do listen ..
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Old 01-11-17, 06:37 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

You guys are right though. I jeed to have a much bigger more general xonversation qith them about the future..ie next year or much later when they might need to move in with us but that's the topic of jy other thread. I really don't want to have that conversation though. I just don't want to. It's hanging like a cloud over me.
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Old 01-11-17, 06:41 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

I would just tell them to get out. But then i'm not exactly sensitive towards my own parents. They know I prefer my own company.
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  #21  
Old 01-11-17, 06:43 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
You guys are right though. I jeed to have a much bigger more general xonversation qith them about the future..ie next year or much later when they might need to move in with us but that's the topic of jy other thread. I really don't want to have that conversation though. I just don't want to. It's hanging like a cloud over me.
I think right now your brain is desperately trying to deflect attention away from the immediate specific conversation that you need to have with them today.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-17, 06:53 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
I trust that they love me and want my beat even if they can't see what is best for me (or believe me when I tell them) or can't provide that for me.

They don't ask for anything else really. Just to stay with me whenever and how long they want.


...

I can't imagine having a sentimental conversation like that. I'd feel super awkward.

Also they neither listen to me nor understand me when they do listen ..
You're probably not misunderstanding these people's advice deliberately, but you're twisting it beyond recognition.

What you're telling them is not something they could in a million years misunderstand. "Please leave now, and please come back much later."


The way in which I recommended you stop trusting them is that you stop believing that they will do what they said they would do. The other sentimental stuff you wrote about trust isn't relevant right now. It's just that they rarely tell the truth and so you must watch out for that and make them stick to their promises.
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  #23  
Old 01-11-17, 09:45 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Yes he's quite openly quite manipulative but when can I do?? Not get manipulated??
Yes not getting manipulated is the objective......this comes from
1) Being aware that you are being manipulated
2) Become aware of how you are being manipulated
3) Becoming aware of why you are being manipulated
4) Devising strategies to maintain boundaries and counteract manipulation

Quote:
They don't ask for anything else really. Just to stay with me whenever and how long they want.
There's a type of counselling/psychotherapy called "Transactional Analysis". You might find it useful as it makes explicit the "contracting" process that happens when humans interact.

It sounds like you would benefit greatly from this type of approach, so that interactions around this kind of stuff is approached in an way that recognises the need for each person to acknowledge and respect the needs and wants of the others.

One thing that the TA approach makes clear is thet the contractual approach is there to help BOTH sides avoid getting into psychological deep water by making things EXPLICIT. Many people who come for this type of therapy find it excruciatingly difficult to be explicit about their own needs and desires. It's a process of recognising these needs and articulating them from a place of awareness, authenticity and autonomy.

Quote:
I can't imagine having a sentimental conversation like that. I'd feel super awkward.
See my above comments..... finding a good TA therapist to work with would help you be able to remain fully functional while "contracting" with others.

Quote:
... they neither listen to me nor understand me when they do listen
THat's an indication that no contracting is happening and they do not see you as an autonomous separate person. THere's a possibility they still see you as an extension of themselves. This is not unusual and a TA therapist would help you understand this and counter the subconscious process that drive it.

If you do decide to look for a TA therapist, I 'd advise trying one with who uses what is called the "Classic" TA approach, rather than the relational TA one.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-17, 10:05 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

From what I recall, your parents have placed a heavy burden on you before, making you feel obligated, guilty, etc. I sense your struggle and wish you didn't have to deal with it.

I like the timeline idea and helping them with the car. I think Tone mentioned that you're also doing this for them, because they know that they've overstayed their welcome.

In my marriage, I let my family come before my wife. It caused friction between she and I. That's what happens when there are few boundaries in the family, and you have a difficult time speaking up for yourself like I did.

Wishing the best for you.
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  #25  
Old 01-11-17, 10:30 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman View Post
Yes not getting manipulated is the objective......this comes from
1) Being aware that you are being manipulated
2) Become aware of how you are being manipulated
3) Becoming aware of why you are being manipulated
4) Devising strategies to maintain boundaries and counteract manipulation



There's a type of counselling/psychotherapy called "Transactional Analysis". You might find it useful as it makes explicit the "contracting" process that happens when humans interact.

It sounds like you would benefit greatly from this type of approach, so that interactions around this kind of stuff is approached in an way that recognises the need for each person to acknowledge and respect the needs and wants of the others.

One thing that the TA approach makes clear is thet the contractual approach is there to help BOTH sides avoid getting into psychological deep water by making things EXPLICIT. Many people who come for this type of therapy find it excruciatingly difficult to be explicit about their own needs and desires. It's a process of recognising these needs and articulating them from a place of awareness, authenticity and autonomy.


See my above comments..... finding a good TA therapist to work with would help you be able to remain fully functional while "contracting" with others.


THat's an indication that no contracting is happening and they do not see you as an autonomous separate person. THere's a possibility they still see you as an extension of themselves. This is not unusual and a TA therapist would help you understand this and counter the subconscious process that drive it.

If you do decide to look for a TA therapist, I 'd advise trying one with who uses what is called the "Classic" TA approach, rather than the relational TA one.
Yes you are right about everything. Also they do still see me as an extension of theirs rather than an autonomous person. I think.

I am not keen on doing therapy. Unless they teach me how to say no without it sounding like no. I've had counselling once and it was fairly useless.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-17, 10:38 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

I think the problem for me is that I don't really believe I have a right to ask my parents to leave or to limit their stay. I think that because I am always welcome in their house (in fact they would love for me to live with them) they should also always be welcome jn my house. I feel that they would feel alone and abandoned if I tried to limit their stay.
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Old 01-11-17, 10:38 AM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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I think the problem for me is that I don't really believe I have a right to ask my parents to leave or to limit their stay. I think that because I am always welcome in their house (in fact they would love for me to live with them) they should also always be welcome jn my house. I feel that they would feel alone and abandoned if I tried to limit their stay.
They would.
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  #28  
Old 01-11-17, 12:50 PM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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I am not keen on doing therapy. Unless they teach me how to say no without it sounding like no. I've had counselling once and it was fairly useless.
I'm interested in your desire to obfuscate and cloak what you are wanting to say. Trying to make "No" sound like something else is the root of your problem..... once you get over the fear that what you are saying is actually a kind of "No" and is coming from your desire to set boundaries and say "No" your anxiety will reduce and you'll find it gradually easier to say "No" in constructive and positive ways.

Therapists/Therapy is not one thing that either works or it doesn't..... it's an infinitely variable process that depends on many things, the most important being the relationship between the therapist and client.

What is also important is the modality (type) of therapy that is being used. In the NHS you're likely to get a short course of CBT, which is OK for some things but not the deeper stuff that's rooted in family dynamics. You also get a lot of "relational" or "person centred" therapy in private practice.....this is fine of you want to go and talk about your troubles and be held/empathised with..... but this and Psychodynamic don't give the client ANY tools to work with......they expect the client to change through some magical self examination process aided by the presence of the therapist.

TA is different..... in it's classical form it's very focussed and has a wide toolkit of metaphors which are both simple to explain/see playing out......and also have the depth needed to explore complex familial interactions.

Obviously not all TA therapists are the same..... but I'd recommend you try a few.... TA is particularly good when you have a specific issue to deal with, which has a range of causes and effects...... which would seem to apply to you.

The UK accrediting body to TA therapists is UKATA, and many will also be UKCP or BACP. TA is renown for its rigorous training process. The initial training is a Diploma in TA then people move on to a worldwide recognised TA qualification called CTA (which is pretty tough to get), after that is PTSTA then TSTA. CTA therapists and above are equivalent to UKCP, and many CTA's are UKCP accredited. Look for TA therapists in the UK here.

It's vital not to write off therapy after seeing only one therapist...... If you live in a place with lots of options..... like Fraser and me then you will find someone. As you work on yourself it's likely that you will change therapist a couple of times as your needs change.

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  #29  
Old 01-11-17, 01:32 PM
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Yes, But...Is This Exactly Equivalent?

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I think the problem for me is that I don't really believe I have a right to ask my parents to leave or to limit their stay. I think that because I am always welcome in their house (in fact they would love for me to live with them) they should also always be welcome jn my house. I feel that they would feel alone and abandoned if I tried to limit their stay.
Apart from the fact that you may not feel exactly as your parents do, even if you did, don't you also have a husband, a young baby, and a job competing for your time, attention, energy and loyalty? Aren't there 2 of them and only 1 of you? Is it possible you actually "owe" it to one or more of these other priorities to limit your parents' stays?

While it's wonderful that you do love them, and that they actually do substantial work and help out, having "in-laws" living in your household is bound to interfere somewhat (maybe enormously?) in the life of the couple and of the new parents adjusting to baby, and--not least of all--new mum attending to herself and baby. For most people, this would be a mind-boggling imposition.

IMO it's not so important to have a big conversation about future visits, but just to bring this one to an end, preferably on good terms, but realize that's not entirely within your control. Once you get more comfortable with the "territory" of bringing a current visit to an end, future visits will get easier.

I think asking what people's plans are is always a good start, but it sounds like there's already a history of delay, so this will likely not be enough.

Next, of course they should not have stayed so long, but you don't need to reproach them about bygones if you frame your need for time by yourselves as something you and your husband are learning from experience as you go. Now that you've learned you need time on your own, you just thank them for coming, thank them for all their help, but it's time for your little family to be alone, establish some new routines and adjust to the new normal. Period.

And no, at this point, you do not have to balance the big and partially unknown needs of a young family with a new baby against the well-rehearsed needs of your parents. There is no comparison. Try to get a grip on your anger about having to assert this. Assert it you must. Deep down they know this.

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Old 01-11-17, 01:37 PM
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Re: How to tell someone they've out stayed their welcome?

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I think the problem for me is that I don't really believe I have a right to ask my parents to leave or to limit their stay.
What (in your mind) would be necessary, for you to gain that right?

In fact you already have the right. I just wonder what's stopping you from understanding that.
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