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  #1  
Old 06-04-09, 10:40 AM
alphalpha alphalpha is offline
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probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Hii...

my doctor had given me the conners cpt 2 test, but the results showed that I am 40% like ad/hd and 60 % more like non-adhd. However the results were atypical, which the doctor said that were signs of severe impulsivity. I remember I had a response time of 390 ms, but clicked on the X 19 times, thought I dont remember how many x's were there in total..

The other tests i.e. development history, and brown add scales came out positive for add..

I was wondering how many of you have had false negatives with this conners cpt, but had a positive diagnosis...
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  #2  
Old 06-04-09, 11:34 AM
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

The CPT is notorious for false negatives. . . I think it's usually because of hyperfocus and the game-like nature of the test. It also gives false positives (if you have another issue other than ADHD that causes poor attention) . . . mctavish, a member here, always points out that there is no single empirical neuropsychiatric test for ADHD, and the best screen is evidence-based (so you would definitely be a candidate). . . especially if there's something funky going on with the test.
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Old 06-04-09, 11:34 PM
mctavish23 mctavish23 is offline
 

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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Check out Chapter 9 of

Attention Deficit Disorder : A Handbook for Diagnosis snd Treatment ( Third Edition)

(2006) Guilford by Russ Barkley

Under ASSESSMENT (Section II),Chapter 9 is "Tests and Observational Measures "

Edited by Russ Barkley, Michael Gordon & Ben Lovett

It covers every type of psychometric instrument,including all CPT's

The number of tests deemed appropriate for diagnosing ADHD are: ZERO


tc

mctavish 23
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Old 06-05-09, 09:43 AM
Dizfriz Dizfriz is offline
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Before addressing adult ADHD, I am going to set the stage by discussing ADHD in children as we have more knowledge and better tools for diagnosing kids.

Currently the diagnostic protocol for diagnosing ADHD (in children but the principle applies also to adults) consists of:

A clinical interview of the parents gaining information on behaviors, family history, school experiences etc.

The parents and the teachers filling out an ADHD specific survey and comparing their scores to that of children of similar gender and age.

Diagnostic observation of the child.

That is it. There are no tests currently valid for diagnosing ADHD. Other tests can be given and are useful to help to check for some comorbid issues and to get a better picture of how the child functions.

Here are two references on this for any that are interested.

This transcript of a workshop by Russell Barkley has a very good discussion on diagnosis of ADHD. Some, including myself, consider this article to be the best overall write up on ADHD available on the internet. It is dated 2000 but most of the data is still basically pretty good. I do warn however that this is forty pages long and Barkley is information dense. I am going to suggest you start with this overview and then download or read the article from there. The discussion of diagnosis begins on page 2. I think you will find here the information you are looking for.

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/showarticle/2054

The other is the diagnostic protocol advised by American Academy of Pediatrics.
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...s%3b105/5/1158

Now to adult ADHD

While there is no current set of criteria or diagnostic protocols for adults, the diagnostician can apply these principles to adult ADHD. Barkley has reported the current criteria renormed for adults and there is a lot of work going on to develop criteria and protocols for assessment of adults. I believe mctavish has posted on this in the past so in anyone is interested you can look it up in his posts.

It would be nice if we had some valid and definitive tests for diagnosing ADHD but right now we have none so we have to do it the hard way. The CPT and the TOVA are not adequate. Perhaps some day but not now.

Dizfriz
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Old 06-05-09, 11:38 AM
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Quote:

Now to adult ADHD

While there is no current set of criteria or diagnostic protocols for adults, the diagnostician can apply these principles to adult ADHD. Barkley has reported the current criteria renormed for adults and there is a lot of work going on to develop criteria and protocols for assessment of adults. I believe mctavish has posted on this in the past so in anyone is interested you can look it up in his posts.

It would be nice if we had some valid and definitive tests for diagnosing ADHD but right now we have none so we have to do it the hard way. The CPT and the TOVA are not adequate. Perhaps some day but not now.

Dizfriz
Quote:
It would be nice if we had some valid and definitive tests for diagnosing ADHD
yes it would . I see alot of over lap in symptoms for ADHD that can appear as syptoms in other disorders . And given each therapist veiws clients diferently or works with one area and not others, ( others being ADHD) alot can be missiterptreted or "made to fit" primarily in the area of peronality disorders. I do hope more therapists who work primarily with Adults learn more about ADHD


Is there a more efficient way to look up information the two of you (Mctavish) have posted other than scrolling through your posts?

thanks for the offer.

Infinity~
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Old 06-05-09, 12:03 PM
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphalpha View Post
Hii...

my doctor had given me the conners cpt 2 test, but the results showed that I am 40% like ad/hd and 60 % more like non-adhd. However the results were atypical, which the doctor said that were signs of severe impulsivity. I remember I had a response time of 390 ms, but clicked on the X 19 times, thought I dont remember how many x's were there in total..

The other tests i.e. development history, and brown add scales came out positive for add..

I was wondering how many of you have had false negatives with this conners cpt, but had a positive diagnosis...

I had some testing done that showed some positives . And i recall some questinable as in not quite positive not quite negative..

I have lost the evaluation . cannot remember what the tests were named . I just remembrr a computer test and some memory/ sequentail tests . and an IQ test. I scored fairly low on the IQ I recall. Sigh.

I was ruled inconclusive because of no parental evidence for past childhood history. AND my history of previous problems

(double sigh...)

And since My parents were not avalibale for questioning as in deceased .
that makes for a bit of frustration on my part. Plus i really didn't know what to look for myself when rummaging through my past. So I was not of much help to myself in that questioning session . And I knew nothing about ADHD .

I think much of this is important to consider .

In my opinion.

Infinity~
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Old 06-05-09, 04:03 PM
Dizfriz Dizfriz is offline
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity View Post
Is there a more efficient way to look up information the two of you (Mctavish) have posted other than scrolling through your posts?
Infinity~

You can try combination key words such as dizfriz or mctavish23 and adult, criteria, assessment and so forth.

That is usually how I find something I need on the forum including something I have written and the past.

Dizfriz
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Old 06-05-09, 11:27 PM
Infinity Infinity is offline
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizfriz View Post
You can try combination key words such as dizfriz or mctavish23 and adult, criteria, assessment and so forth.



Dizfriz

thank you . Now where is the search button.


found it....


Uh I put in

mctavish23 and adult, criteria,



and got this

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms :-D

maybe its the commas .

Ill try threads.

Last edited by Infinity; 06-05-09 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: found
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Old 06-06-09, 12:18 AM
Infinity Infinity is offline
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Re: probability of false negative with conners continuous performance test..

here ya go alphalpha,

http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...adult+criteria

Re: "Professional" diagnosis - Do they ever say you DON'T have ADD?




Sure.

Clinicans often say someone doesn't have ADHD.

However, it's what they base that on that matters.

I must have a gizillion posts on my concerns regarding clinicians not reading the literature on what works.

Any time a clinician uses test scores as their primary diagnostic tool, then there's an overwhelming chance of getting a False Negative ( you really do have ADHD and the test score misses it).

The number of standardized,copyrighted, psychometric instruments ( i.e., "tests)," deemed "appropriate" for the diagnosis of ADHD is ....

ZERO.NADA, etc.

Reading is believing (that's kinda catchy, I like it )

Chapters 8 & 9 of :Attention Deficit / Hyperactivity Disorder: A Handbook for Diagnosis & Treatment : Third Edition (2006), Edited by Russell Barkley, et al.,Guilford Press

(I plead immunity from APA format on the grounds that it sucks for posting)

Those chapters provide the best delineation on the appropriate diagnosis of ADHD I've ever read ( and that's saying something).

Also, Pages 8 & 9 of the 40 page Russ Barkley presentation from San Francisco in 2000, available at www.schwablearning.org provides the best condensed statements I've seen.

Anytime a clinican relies on (any & all test scores) for the sole purpose of trying to diagnose ADHD, they've automatically proven their lack of knowledge on the ongoing science behind the disorder.

With the possible exception of MR, test scores alone are strictly ancillary.

Someone asked me last week how many full scaled psych evals ( of all kinds) I've done in 31 years.

I said I obviously didn't know, but I estimated sefveral thousand ( of all types).

When it comes to ADHD, experienced clinicians don't have to do a full scale psych eval to address the diagnostic question.

However, the caveat is that you have to read the research to know what works and why.

I'd like to tell you that's the norm;only that would be untrue.

In truth, it appears to be ( from the limited perspective of my practice & beyond to the surrounding area) the exception to the rule.

That's why it is so important for everyone,especially parents,to become informed consumers.

State licensing boards exist soley for the protection of the mental health conumer,i.e., you or family members,etc.

The underlying guiding principle is one of "Do No Harm."

My contention is that's impossible if you don't know what you're doing in the first place.

The discouraging thing is that ADHD is the most widely researched childhood disorder / developmental disability on earth.

I'll end with something I said at a conference earlier this year on Executive Dysfunction :

"The only truly "lazy" people I come in contact with are the ones who don't/won't read the research."


-Me ( 2008)


(Mctavish)

I think the hand book is around 80.00. (.......)

Quote:
The underlying guiding principle is one of "Do No Harm."

My contention is that's impossible if you don't know what you're doing in the first place

yes and yes.
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