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  #121  
Old 01-29-11, 12:55 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

I feel that society struggles to accept what they do not know. Indeed, media has added a lot of attention to ADD in recent years. My personal opinion is that they have not properly educated the public regarding the numerous studies involving various brain scans indicated lower levels of dopamine (which Mctavish took a scoop of). Consequently, many people brush it off as undisciplined kids or poor parenting.

I kinda take this a little personal. Although, I don't know for sure if this is the public's purpose. I guess this is one of a slew of reasons why education is key in life.
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  #122  
Old 01-29-11, 12:59 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Now, that we know, or have known of ADD being a real disorder, when will there be a cure? Mctavish's post said that research has lead to scientists focusing on the 11 gene I believe involving a dopamine receptor.

I don't know. The more I think about the issues surrounding ADD the more I feel that the ADD brain is very complex. I think there is still more to learn.
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  #123  
Old 01-29-11, 01:38 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Do humans have awareness of their own behavior? What other proof could you want?
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  #124  
Old 02-16-11, 04:08 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

I hate that old-fashioned "Bah! That's just the way things are and that's it! You aren't ADD, you just need to sit down and study! You aren't 'bi-polar' you're just moody!" attitude. That surface level, anti-science style of thinking is harmful to society.
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  #125  
Old 02-18-11, 12:12 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

We are in the "infancy" of ADHD research.

Having said that, ADHD is still THE most widely researched

childhood disorder/ developmental disability on earth.

There is MUCH more to learn,which makes it an exciting journey.

Thanks for your feedback.

tc

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  #126  
Old 02-18-11, 12:15 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouslyadd View Post
I feel that society struggles to accept what they do not know. Indeed, media has added a lot of attention to ADD in recent years. My personal opinion is that they have not properly educated the public regarding the numerous studies involving various brain scans indicated lower levels of dopamine (which Mctavish took a scoop of). Consequently, many people brush it off as undisciplined kids or poor parenting.

I kinda take this a little personal. Although, I don't know for sure if this is the public's purpose. I guess this is one of a slew of reasons why education is key in life.
Life is very complicated; humans only simplify it to their understanding. Simple thinking is always easy and pretty much any species in more inclined to take whatever route is the easiest.
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  #127  
Old 03-13-11, 01:12 PM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Next to an evidence based diagnosis, Parent & Teacher Education are the #1 & 2 non-

medical interventions.

So for adults, (Self) Education would be the #1 non-medical intervention.

The FORUM provides an invaluable (and often thankless) service in that regard.

tc

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  #128  
Old 04-08-11, 09:58 PM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Apologies for the self-serving bump but I am unwillingly doing a presentation for a Fitness class about the parallel between a child's tendency to have ADD and his/her exposure to pesticides.

In an article concerning a (fascinating) study that was performed in the Salinas Valley, a researcher was quoted as saying ""Children's concurrent organophosphate metabolic levels at age 3.5 and 5 years were unrelated to attention outcomes[...]", and I frankly don't know what the heck that means.

Is the speaker suggesting that kids whose exposure to pesticides did not vary between that short time-period do not pose an immediate chance of exhibiting the condition? If so, then the woman is suggesting that while there is a link between pesticides and the development of ADD/ADHD, the seed of the condition is more rooted to a child's prenatal stage. Fascinating, and it only furthers the probability that ADD is more innate than nurtured.

And sorry if the study in question (link) has already been mentioned and fought over on these boards. My question is specific and it would be rather tedious to scavenge through this monster topic to spot the definite answer that I'm looking for.
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  #129  
Old 04-10-11, 10:43 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

POOCH,

Be careful, They are talking about ORGANOPHOSPHATE chemicals. Not all pesticides... Can u let me know which particular study you are talking about as the link that you provided sent me to hundreds.....
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  #130  
Old 04-10-11, 12:16 PM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

is there by any chance a summarized version of this?
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  #131  
Old 04-10-11, 01:57 PM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

IMO, it's kind of a weak study, and was also tweaked a little poorly by journalists. IIRC, it didn't compare to a control group that exhibited ADD without pesticide exposure, or pesticide exposure without ADD.
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  #132  
Old 04-10-11, 07:30 PM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Sorry about the wacky link; the article in question is the first result and is only accessible through Google, for whatever reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adhdwptsd View Post
POOCH,

Be careful, They are talking about ORGANOPHOSPHATE chemicals. Not all pesticides... Can u let me know which particular study you are talking about as the link that you provided sent me to hundreds.....
Oh, I'm well aware. It was necessary for me to mention that in my write-up and to also mention how neither of the two studies (one done by Montreal/Harvard researchers; another, more racially specific done in the Salinas Valley) were clinically legitimate, if that makes any sense. But thanks.

There are several holes within these supposed findings, such as the lack of both acknowledgment of the ADD-community's subtypes and the many other proposed culprits of a child's proneness to developing the disorder. Also, ADHD's naysayers could easily use this research to their advantage and propose that less capable/disciplinary parents are more likely to not properly wash their kids' food or to monitor their household's use of pesticides. Clearly, no true scientific data has emerged from those stats.

Still, my main trouble is that cryptic quote from that one researcher. Meh, I'll just let it be until my presentation on Thursday...
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Old 05-09-11, 09:09 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

More psycobabble and double talk, courtesy big pharma to sell dope. You should inform the APA, because they openly admit there's no objective test for ADHD. The bottom line is that it's all just slick marketing for drug sales and no conclusive proof anywhere. Fraud is fraud and lies are still lies.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mctavish23 View Post
The exact etiology of ADHD is unknown. No one is claiming to know that, at least not right now. However, in regards to statements about there being "no scientific basis"(/B) for these disorders,

Here's the "proof" : These are ALL from unrestricted research grants published in (the cream of the crop) peer reviewed journals.

1) The neurobiological nature of ADHD.....THE PROOF YOU SAY DOESNT EXIST: was conclusively proven in the 1990 landmark glucose brainscan research study published in the New England Journal of Medicine....




Zametkin,A.J.,Nordahl,T.E.,Gross,M.,King,A.K.,Semp le,W.E.,Rumsey,J.,Hamburger,S.,& Cohen,R.M.(1990) Cerebral glucose metabolism in adults with hyperactivity of childhood onset. The New England Journal of Medicine,323,(30).1361-1366.

The "proof" is in the PET scans that showed that the harder a person with ADHD concentrated the "slower" their brain went vs the exact opposite for the non ADHD group. However, that was remedied when the ADHD subjects took stimulant medication.

THE definitive study proving the existence of ADHD as a "real" disorder;signed off on by over 80 of the world's leading scientists (with over 19 pages of references) is :

Consortium of international scientists:International Consensus Statement on ADHD, January 2002. (http://www.chadd.org). It can also be viewed at Russell Barkley's website.


You can turn to pages 22-24 of Sandra Rief's 2003 book.............The ADHD Book of Lists ....................to find the section (1-7) WHAT THE RESEARCH IS REVEALING ABOUT ADHD

Within that section is the reference for the Landmark MTA Study:

"There has been significant research with regards to treatments for ADHD and their relative effectiveness. The longest and most thorough study of the effects of ADHD interventions was the 1999 Multimodal Treatment Study of Children with ADHD (MTA) by the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

MTA Cooperative Group" A 14-month Randomized Clinincal Trial of Treatment Strategies for AD/HD,"[i]Archives of General Psychiatry, 56:1073-1086;1999.

ADHD is primarily thought to be largely (80%) genetic/inherited.THE GENETIC LANDMARK FOR ADHD WAS FOUND IN 995. That study is as follows:


Cook,et.al.,(1995) Association of attention-deficit disorder and the dopamine transporter gene.American Journal of Human Genetics,56.993-998.

The US Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health: Chapter 3: Disorders of Infancy, Childhood & Adolescence has excellent background info supporting in great detail (with another 19 pages of scientific references).Here's a small segment on what I'm talking about:
" The exact etiology of ADHD is unknown,although neurotransmitter deficits,genetics and perinatal complications have been implicated." It goes on to say:

"Research to pinpoint abnormal genes is honing in on 2 genes;a dopamine receptor gene (DRD) gene on chromosome 11 and the dopamine -transporter gene (DAT1) on chromosome 5 (Cook,et.al.,1995:Smalley,et.al.;1998).

The latter reference is : Smalley,et.at.(1998) Evidence that the dopamine D4 receptor is a succeptibility gene in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder,Molecular Psychiatry,3,427-430.

Recently (3/25/05), I participated in a teleconference on ADHD in children put on by United Behavioral Health (UBH: a managed care company). The presenter was Russell Barkley, PhD. He is largely viewed as the world's leading researcher on ADHD. During that presentation, he listed the following (evidenced based/research derived) data regarding the neurology of ADHD.

Decreased Cerebral Metabolism
(from Thomas Spencer, M.D.)

global and regional glucose metabolism by PET scan reduced in adults who have been hyper since childhood (thats Zametkin's research again).
Largest reductions in:
1) pre motor cortex
2) superior prefrontal cortex

Anterior Cingulate Dysfunction in ADHD, fMRI and the Counting Stroop.
Bush,et.al.,(1998).


Etiologies-Neurological

Smaller, less active,less developed brain
Regions found on MRI,fMRI and PET scans incluse the following areas of the brain:
1) Orbital-Prefrontal Cortex( primarily on the right side)

2) Basal Ganglia (mainly striatum and globus pallidus)

3) Cerebellum (central vermis area, right side) - there were some other posts about this particualr area of the brain being a key component of ADHD in a different thread I believe

Suspected Neurochemical Deficiency:

1) Dopamine dysregulation likely but not definitive....... the mere fact that stimulant
medication works at all to relieve symptoms of ADHD forms a solid basis
for helping to substantiate this (and the first medication study was done in 1937 in
Rhode Island)

2) Norepinephrine dysregulation probable

Etiologies- Genetic ( these data were all derived from research studies) The usual maker for statistical significance is 1.5 SD (standard deviation) 's from the mean, which equates to a %tile ranking of 93. In other words, the absolute lowest chance of these data being accurate is 93%.

1) Family aggregation of the disorder: 25-35% of siblings; 78-92% of idnetical twins;15-20% of mothers, and 25-30% of fathers; If the parent is ADHD, then theres a 20-54% chance of the offspring being ADHD (increases the odds 8fold)

2) Twin studies of Heritability 57-97%)

3) Shared environment 0-6% (not significant)

4) Unique environment (15-20% )


Molecular Genetics : Candidate genes on DRD4,DAT1,DBH-Taq1 (on chromosomes 3,5,and 11)

Candidate region: chromosome 26p13 region


Lastly, the answer to your questions about the difference between ADHD and ADD can be found in Barkley's ADHD and the Nature of Self-Control (1997).
It's also addressed in his 2002 book Taking Charge of ADHD (pages 137-138) and in You Mean Im Not Lazy,Stupid Or Crazy? by Kate Kelly & Peg Ramundo (Chapter 2).

As for depression, it is considered to be a Medical disorder on the basis of the chemical imbalance of the neurotransmitter serotonin. I don't know anyone who considers it to be a "disease".

There's no cure for the common cold but people know it exists. The Biogenic Amine Hypothesis was derived (via research) over 20 years ago. Here's what that says: "The concept that abnormalities in the physiology and metabolism of certain biogenic amines, particularly catecholamines[i](norepinephrine and dopamine ) and an indoleamine(serotonin) , are involved in the causes and courses of certain psychiatric illnesses."
That qoute was from an older issue of A Psychiatric Glossary of the AMerican Psychiatric Association, page 28. The new one is at the office.

The Biogenic Amine Hypothesis is what eventually led to the development of the class of antidepressants we now know as SSRI's (Select Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor's:Zoloft, Prozaz,etc.).


This MORE than refutes your remarks. As of the summer of 2003 there were over 6k research articles,professional papers, chapters in book and books on ADHD.

If you go to the International Consensus 2002 journal article, you will also find on page 89:

"ADHD is recognized as a disorder/medical condition by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics."


THIS ISN'T AN EXACT SCIENCE .NO ONE EVER SAID IT WAS. But I can tell you that a T score of 70+% on the Conners Parent Rating Scale is one of the most accurate predictors of ADHD currently available (when used in concert with a thorough developemental and medical screening, behavioral observations and other screenings for executive functions; to name a few).


I could go on but I've made my point. I spent hours on this post and still had to cut it short. There's your scientific basis.
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Old 05-09-11, 11:12 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

Quote:
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You should inform the APA, because they openly admit there's no objective test for ADHD.

there is no objective test for the existence of a soul.... Does that mean you don't have one?
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Old 05-09-11, 11:39 AM
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Re: "No scientific basis" - Here's the Proof

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there is no objective test for the existence of a soul.... Does that mean you don't have one?
Im going to say that yes, i have no soul.
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