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  #121  
Old 05-27-18, 09:07 AM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

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Originally Posted by tudorose View Post
I'm of average intelligence. A number of years ago there was a thread on here and I found I was in the minority. Most people were way above average. Some members of mensa. A lot with post grad degrees.

I don't see it as boasting. But don't be ashamed of it either. If people are jealous that's their problem.
My IQ is around 135, not super high.

There are so many factors that play into how we use our IQ to be successful

. . . or that inhibit our ability to succeed.

I have severe sensory disorder (not just noise or light but ALL my senses) . . .

I only learned in the last few years that I likely have autism

and have anxiety and have been severely clinically depressed in the past.



Someone with all those issues might still succeed, probably with a lot of effort,

if (IF) they have support and encouragement, rather than those around them

telling them that they're lazy, not trying hard enough, etc, etc, etc.


Someone with a lower IQ score might find it easier to succeed if they don't

have other comorbid disorders, don't have family beating them down instead

of lifting them up.


I'm not jealous because someone has a high IQ.

I am jealous if they have someone rooting for them, giving them support.

I am not jealous of someone who brags about their success because . . . tacky.
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  #122  
Old 05-27-18, 05:38 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

thanks guys for not bearing down on me. I'll admit that 3 or some years ago I was a hellfire on the boards, the first year of therapy was really getting out of depression, the hell in hell fire. 2 years after that where all about the labrynth of the mind.

and It wasn't my intent to hyjac L's thread, eh, one of those ADHD things when a prompt can really prompt, I can make a different thread, so this is really the last reply of this kind in this thread about this.

one of the big factors is what it is I want to do. an analogy is, what if you won the lottery and now can literally do anything with that money. well with adhd, int and gifted that is the biggest quagmire. I've come to terms with adhd and the *external neural network*(ehh, can wright on that for hours so I won't, heh, I think a big one is the reminder I have on my cred/deb card, if I you want to get more money, use your int man!).

the biggest problem I've faced is just deciding what it is I want to do. the analogy still stands, if you won the lottery and could literally buy anything, what would you buy? that's what it is for people like myself, the flip side of the intelligence debate. I mean, having high Iq and not being that debased (first word to pop in my head) by adhd isn't all sunshine, because what would you do if you could really do anything? that's a tall order, and I think I have it nailed down, but have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get there.

I'll give an example or two of what the gifted is in terms of all the above. I've never danced before, the first time I was invited to dance (literal dancing and not the romantic kind) I would see other's dancing and absorb that, and I was able to do all the dance moves on the dance floor. never once have I ever danced except in high school (and there is a bit of connotation with romance there, but , it is what it is).

the second is what my therapist told me way back when, "you can't be other people". that sounds a bit more than it sounds, because of my gift I'm able to act , like REALLY act. that's been my career thus far. so there have been times when I didn't know how to turn off acting, bringing the character that I play home with me so to speak. learning how to turn that off and not lean in has been a challenge, but I've learned how to keep the character I play at the play I play him at. I used my knowledge of projection to project myself into my character, and the "you can see inside yourself what you see in other people" is a thing here as well, as I can tell when other's are doing the same(robin williams for instance).

the first time I took the test I scored a bit above lunacie, that's without putting the +10 deviation for ADHD and that's with a complete lack of confidence going in to the test. all the number indicates is potential, nothing else. that's why the reminder is "use it". I'm comfortable with that number and really don't want to take the test again, there is no need, I know what I can and can't do, I've got a lifetime of information regarding that, I just wish I hadn't fallen prey to depression, or that I encountered people that could help me sooner or else I would have a PHD at this moment, all that is in the future. I really wish I hadn't encountered those that debase reality(ya, narcs), but I know what that looks like, so there is that.

so thanks pshych and tort for your encouraging words. all int is is one part of who I am, and I'm not going to be afraid to use my int from on, but I won't let my int go ttoo my head so to speak.
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  #123  
Old 05-27-18, 06:44 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

Drogheda I reckon if you can get a PhD that's awesome. Come here for encouragement if you do!! That's the point of this place really.

We're not gonna be jealous - the way I see it there is a place of all of us in this world its just a matter of finding it.

We need super smart people in the world.
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  #124  
Old 05-28-18, 08:52 AM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

A number of things have been brought up on this thread that I really relate to. The major one is being a people pleaser, and how that figures into having a really poor sense of boundaries. In the past, I've been very codependent. Figuring out who I am absent of other people has been a very long journey.

I was a very high achiever in high school and college somewhat because I was driven by internal factors, but also because I thrived on the constant feedback and approval that grades gave me. What finally broke me (literally and figuratively) was working for a person whose expectations were so impossible that there was no pleasing him, and there was no way to actually succeed. It took about two years of working in that environment for me to go from the mindset of "what can I do to help out and be successful?" to "**** it, no I can't do that and I won't even try."

On being "high-functioning" with ADHD/learning disabilities- school was my jam because it had a hell of a lot of structure built in. Anxiety fuels my ability to get **** done right before deadlines, mostly because I live in terror of actually missing said deadlines. This works (mostly) for bill paying also, but doesn't work so well for things like cleaning the house. Things did not work out quite so well when I was in graduate school . . . (and my inability to quit or change directions led me down a career path that I was pretty sure just wasn't for me; it wasn't, and I'm much happier now working in a job that I am way overqualified for).

High IQ and adaptive functioning don't always travel together as nicely as one might hope. And IQ means less for us who have various learning/attention issues than it does for a more standard-issue brain. It's not uncommon to have real peaks and valleys in IQ subscores that make the full-scale IQ almost meaningless, for example.
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  #125  
Old 05-28-18, 12:43 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

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Originally Posted by TygerSan View Post
High IQ and adaptive functioning don't always travel together as nicely as one might hope. And IQ means less for us who have various learning/attention issues than it does for a more standard-issue brain. It's not uncommon to have real peaks and valleys in IQ subscores that make the full-scale IQ almost meaningless, for example.
My son is twice gifted. I was told that while his scores for social functioning and other test for autism, weren't entirely horrible, the greatest concern was the difference between his his social and intelligence scores. He's brilliant but still has social deficits.

I think this difference really frustrates him sometimes. He can do well in school, do well in intellectual endeavors, but social situations he just doesn't understand. It's been a long road for him but is is doing much better at it. But soon dating is going to be on his social radar and I'm concerned he will feel back to square one on this issue. I think his intelligence makes him painfully aware of what he is not doing well but doesn't necessarily mean he knows how to fix them or even explain them very well.

I could see the same thing with ADHD and learning disabilities. You could be entirely aware of the issue but, like my son, have no straightforward path to fix the issue or possibly even know you have no path to fix it.
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  #126  
Old 05-28-18, 01:52 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

The trend is how you choose the words you are using on yourself.


Nobody actually knows what they are!!! That's the absolute truth about the complexity of human beings. All you know is your perceptions of how your life has gone so far. To extend that to making claims about your actual make-up is a form of deceit.


I figured this out in my teens. So, I don't way I'm worthless. I tell myself that I have yet to determine in what way I can add value. That honestly expresses the notion that so far, in my over 22,000 days of life, no value that I have contributed has turned into something I could predictably repeat, yet it leaves the door open to the notion that, in the precious few days of life I have left, I may still find it.


You are not your brain. You have a relationship with your brain, and you have the ability to manipulate, adjust, and change it. It's not possible to make it do everything you want it to do, and the biggest learning you will get is what you can and can't do with it. But nobody has more control over your brain than you do. Take charge of it.
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  #127  
Old 05-28-18, 02:00 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

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Originally Posted by TygerSan View Post
A number of things have been brought up on this thread that I really relate to. The major one is being a people pleaser, and how that figures into having a really poor sense of boundaries. In the past, I've been very codependent. Figuring out who I am absent of other people has been a very long journey.


I can identify with that. A counselor helped me be OK with it. Humans, more than any other animal, are pack animals. There's nothing wrong with figuring out who you are only in the context of being with other people, because that's how we are wired. Society's notion that we should be "capable, independent and functional" in the absence of others actually severs us from our inborn natures.


So, I'm OK with defining myself in terms of how I relate to others and how I contribute to improving the world for others. My frustration is coming up with consistent and reliable, and repeatable ways and somehow creating long-term objectives out of that. Because, as Carol Ryff has observed, it is the satisfaction of long-term objectives that give meaning to life. Not merely current at-the-moment happiness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TygerSan View Post

I was a very high achiever in high school and college somewhat because I was driven by internal factors, but also because I thrived on the constant feedback and approval that grades gave me. What finally broke me (literally and figuratively) was working for a person whose expectations were so impossible that there was no pleasing him, and there was no way to actually succeed. It took about two years of working in that environment for me to go from the mindset of "what can I do to help out and be successful?" to "**** it, no I can't do that and I won't even try."


But now that you're out from under that turd, you can recover. ADHD people have extraordinary resilience.


For me, it was 35+ years on end of annual reviews saying I wasn't good enough that broke me. I could have handled a boss or two, but all of them - too much.


[quote=TygerSan;1996096]

On being "high-functioning" with ADHD/learning disabilities- school was my jam because it had a hell of a lot of structure built in. Anxiety fuels my ability to get **** done right before deadlines, mostly because I live in terror of actually missing said deadlines. This works (mostly) for bill paying also, but doesn't work so well for things like cleaning the house. Things did not work out quite so well when I was in graduate school . . . (and my inability to quit or change directions led me down a career path that I was pretty sure just wasn't for me; it wasn't, and I'm much happier now working in a job that I am way overqualified for).


[quote=TygerSan;1996096]


Damn, I envy you. I never had a "jam". No situation ever was adequate for me to be regularly productive and successful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TygerSan View Post

High IQ and adaptive functioning don't always travel together as nicely as one might hope. And IQ means less for us who have various learning/attention issues than it does for a more standard-issue brain. It's not uncommon to have real peaks and valleys in IQ subscores that make the full-scale IQ almost meaningless, for example.

I've studied this high IQ thing. I have concluded that for MOST people, high IQ is a deficit. My example is typical. Because of my IQ, certain things come easy. The IQ tests are biased toward high scores for those who do well at the kind of learning required in grade school classrooms. So, I was the kid in grade school, who got the homework done in class while the teacher was still explaining it. But who flunked college classes because I was incapable of doing homework outside of class. I went to age 30 before attempting anything requiring repetitive study/attempts. I would love to play music, but the act of practicing is so unbelievably stultifying that I can't do it. I literally can't.


So, I'm relegated to things that can be done without much talent, and none of that is particularly engaging.
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  #128  
Old 05-28-18, 06:28 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

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Originally Posted by LyrinMeow View Post
My son is twice gifted. I was told that while his scores for social functioning and other test for autism, weren't entirely horrible, the greatest concern was the difference between his his social and intelligence scores. He's brilliant but still has social deficits.

I think this difference really frustrates him sometimes. He can do well in school, do well in intellectual endeavors, but social situations he just doesn't understand. It's been a long road for him but is is doing much better at it. But soon dating is going to be on his social radar and I'm concerned he will feel back to square one on this issue. I think his intelligence makes him painfully aware of what he is not doing well but doesn't necessarily mean he knows how to fix them or even explain them very well.
My son is high functioning autistic. He was in the top 10 percent of the country for maths on the national tests. But he didn't cope in school. He was also brilliant at puzzles.

He didn't finish school. We got him into a trade in the building and construction industry. He utilises his maths and puzzle solving abilities on the job.

Social issues developed better on the job than in the school environment.

School was a bloody nightmare.
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  #129  
Old 05-28-18, 08:54 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

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Originally Posted by WheresMyMind View Post
Damn, I envy you. I never had a "jam". No situation ever was adequate for me to be regularly productive and successful.

So, I'm relegated to things that can be done without much talent, and none of that is particularly engaging.
this might help a little.

the thing about Intelligence (IQ but really the same) and creativity is, they both have to be recognized for what they are, in my case, to be comfortable in using either.

like, has it ever hit you that you were capable of doing the work in class, that's not something everyone can do. INT is about streamlined input and output, what takes other's 20 takes takes, depending on the persons own strengths and weaknesses, 1-4 or so. and sometimes just turning one particular weakness is just acknowledging that about ourselves. That's why I think it important for people like us to have a place to atleast discuss this from time to time.

because truth of the matter is, we are isolated in this regard (130 is something like 10% of the population). and while this is just one component of what makes a human (well 2 when you put in creativity), it is a part that needs to be discussed from time to time. just like photographers or engineers or what have you can discuss particular qualities of their own craft. don't downplay the importance of the test, but down't upsell it either. when a person lands 130, 140, 150 etc, we get that not because we are just good at taking tests, we get that because we can then know our potential in certain things, science, engineering etc, stem stuff... I was able to complete astronomy in a week not because of sheer will, but because those numbers directly point to my capability to grasp abstract concepts much quicker

that is still potential, don't get me wrong, but to me it's encouraging. tyger you made an excellent point that we are how we describe ourselves, that's really hitting the nail on the head of belief >cognitive behavior>behavior. one of the very first things my therapist told me was, believe in yourself, and it's true, in order to accept ourselves we have to believe we are capable.

for us, well, 10%+, we don't get a chance to talk about this stuff much. when I first realized I was capable of doing that kind of work because I could, that I wasn't wierd for being able to process complex thought fast, that was really the turning point into putting that particular belief into perspective and changing a negative attribute of who I was into a positive, and it all comes to how we talk about ourselves and others.

some food for thought, but you(WMM) said you could do your work when the teacher was around, well, crap, think of yourself as a teacher, teaching yourself. maybee think of something, ask yourself, what you really always wanted to do, then you might find your jam.

Last edited by namazu; 05-28-18 at 10:23 PM.. Reason: fixed quote tags
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Old 05-29-18, 04:33 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

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My son is high functioning autistic. He was in the top 10 percent of the country for maths on the national tests. But he didn't cope in school. He was also brilliant at puzzles.

He didn't finish school. We got him into a trade in the building and construction industry. He utilises his maths and puzzle solving abilities on the job.

Social issues developed better on the job than in the school environment.

School was a bloody nightmare.
My son already "passed" the ACT when he was 11. I'd be tempted to try to move him along a bit but I don't want his intelligence to get too far ahead of his social scope. At his age I was already asocial and too probably too jaded to turn back. Hated people. Still do. I would have loved to skip high school entirely.

As of right now he still wants to be a software engineer like mom so he wants to go the normal college route. (A job of puzzle solving. Sometimes very, very tedious puzzle solving.) So I guess we'll stick to that.

Next year he's going to be in the robotics club. I'm kinda excited too. I'm normally involved in what he is doing. Taught a basics of programming to his Lego League club. Now they are using real languages from what I can tell. A use for me, finally!

Good for your son! Gotta find something you love. If I didn't love to programming someone at work would have definitely gotten shoved out the window by now. I'm hoping my son will be at home in deving as I think he will be. They are his kind of people. I tell my son "son, one day you are going to make some geek a really happy person".
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Old 05-29-18, 04:49 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

I would suggest looking into hoagies gifted resources page for your son.
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Old 05-29-18, 05:05 PM
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Re: Here's how this sh- works

Oh sweet. This looks really cool. Thanks!

Um, would it be considered bad manners to offer to redesign the website for them? Cuz I really really want to.
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