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  #121  
Old 10-20-13, 02:47 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

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Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman View Post
I'm trying to make the point that "being different" in a tribal culture is not pleasant and has never been pleasant. There's a reason one doesn't see people with obvious mental health issues in Africa...... and it all looks fine and dandy when we go on safari....

Tanzanian psychiatric care is almost non-existent. Part of this recent BBC article is about how people with mental health issues are put into cages with hyenas... to "cure them"... unfortunately the cure occasionally results in an extremely nasty death.

Not for the faint hearted http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24539989

It also describes the appalling nature of psychiatric care in Somalia, a standard of care which extends across much of Africa. Chaining is common in Kenya and Tanzania. Even if you're comparatively well off, mental health is so little understood, indeed feared that something that would be considered mild in the western world can easily result in ostracism and terrible discrimination.

ADHD is co-morbid with more serious psychological issues.... and I am sure we can all imagine how suffering such discrimination and abuse for being a bit different could easily trigger a slide into the pit of hell from where there would be little chance of escape.

It's not the ADHD that's an asset.... it's where your born....and to whom.

kilted
You're comparing the treatment of schizophrenia and complete mental breakdowns to adhd which is hidden? Since when were people fed to hyenas for forgetting their fishing rod? You're referring to something on a very different spectrum.
You're putting adhd and mental health together which is fine coming from the USA/UK because thats how WE categorise it - but it's not like that there. They don't classify it as a mental health condition, not where I went. When you describe our adhd characteristics, the person is known as a 'new soul'. That's it. No burning or scrutinising or anything like that.

But of course it completely depends on enviornment. I was referring to research in Kenya tribes which showed those tribes with adhders faired better. It had nothing to do with the overall state of Africa's mental health system.

Your post is very interesting at looking at Africa's overall issue on mental health. But I don't feel those issues apply to what I meant.

And tbh, Somalia has sooooo many problems, pretty much the least of their problems is who has what mental health condition.
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  #122  
Old 10-20-13, 03:20 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

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Originally Posted by AshT View Post
You're comparing the treatment of schizophrenia and complete mental breakdowns to adhd which is hidden? Since when were people fed to hyenas for forgetting their fishing rod? You're referring to something on a very different spectrum.
If, for you, ADHD is "forgetting your fishing rod", then you don't have ADHD and don't know what it is.
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  #123  
Old 10-20-13, 03:48 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

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Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
Poor sense of directions/spacial reasoning is a classic ADHD symptom. Listed specifically in DSM. (Though DSM IV, DSM V just says spacial skills I believe.). That's not the same thing as being familiar with a layout, like my house or the woods near your house. Also, not every ADHD'er has every symptom.


No I've not read any thing specific to different cultures. I would also imagine that in different cultures, ADHD may affect you more or less.



Feel free to take their word for it. There are people who feel ADHD is also a gift and not a disability. There are people who feel deafness is not a disability and are outraged at the idea of curing certain types of deafness where it's possible. There is no question that SOME Aspie's, as well as SOME ADHD'ers, have unique abilities which can legitimately be linked in part to their disability. There can even be people who's lives are enriched by their disability. Music and math are good examples.



For the purposes of these conversations, a gift is anything with any sort of upside at all which is not overall, a disability. Your next question should be: what is a disability? I'm comfortable with the ADA's definition:
An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, ...
http://www.ada.gov/cguide.htm
paragraph 2
Ok. I can't find that in the dsm atm but will take a better look. Seems counter intuitive to me as I was under the impression adhders had better spatial reasoning skills - but that may be because dyslexics do and there's a massively high portion of adhders with dyslexia. So ill check where I read about that. ..

That the adhder who impulsively brought a lottery ticket and wins, is going to view their adhd as a gift. The adhder whos impulses lead them to prison will call it a curse.

Whether adhd is a gift or curse I think its strictly down to the individual, environment etc. The argument of is it/isnt it is irrelevant. Does it matter? Surely it only matters to the adhd individual how they view their own condition and is only a concern if it hinders their development.

And im assuming people are open to the POSSIBILITY that for some it has been a gift/curse no matter what side of the fence you're on. Thus, we cannot enforce our own views on one another because we simply don't know the individuals experience. And enforcing our views in either way is imo, damaging.

This is simply the point im trying make. But I get from your post that you already get anyway .
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  #124  
Old 10-20-13, 03:50 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls View Post
If, for you, ADHD is "forgetting your fishing rod", then you don't have ADHD and don't know what it is.
Thankyou for taking my overall point out of context.
The example I gave wasn't relevant to the overall point I was making. Which was that tribal views of schizophrenia and how they dealt with it is extremely different to adhd because they dont put adhd as a mental health condition, so no hyena feeding. I was purposely giving a trivial example
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  #125  
Old 10-20-13, 03:59 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman View Post
I'm trying to make the point that "being different" in a tribal culture is not pleasant and has never been pleasant. There's a reason one doesn't see people with obvious mental health issues in Africa...... and it all looks fine and dandy when we go on safari....

Tanzanian psychiatric care is almost non-existent. Part of this recent BBC article is about how people with mental health issues are put into cages with hyenas... to "cure them"... unfortunately the cure occasionally results in an extremely nasty death.

Not for the faint hearted http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24539989

It also describes the appalling nature of psychiatric care in Somalia, a standard of care which extends across much of Africa. Chaining is common in Kenya and Tanzania. Even if you're comparatively well off, mental health is so little understood, indeed feared that something that would be considered mild in the western world can easily result in ostracism and terrible discrimination.

ADHD is co-morbid with more serious psychological issues.... and I am sure we can all imagine how suffering such discrimination and abuse for being a bit different could easily trigger a slide into the pit of hell from where there would be little chance of escape.

It's not the ADHD that's an asset.... it's where your born....and to whom.

kilted
I do want to add - I agree with pretty much every point you've made here.
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  #126  
Old 10-20-13, 11:30 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshT View Post
Thankyou for taking my overall point out of context.
The example I gave wasn't relevant to the overall point I was making. Which was that tribal views of schizophrenia and how they dealt with it is extremely different to adhd because they dont put adhd as a mental health condition, so no hyena feeding. I was purposely giving a trivial example

Hyena treatment is very expensive, used only for the most severe cases,
such as schizophrenia.


In the BBC article, "Dr Hab" is quoted as saying he works with people who
have PTSD, Anxiety and Depression. Those last two are very often comorbid
with ADHD. WHO (World Health Organization) estimates that 1 in 3 citizens
of Somalia are affected by mental illness - either they have it or a family
member has it. Dr Hab believes thousands of people suffering from mental
illness are chained up in private homes.


ADHD is not always "hidden." It's not just forgetting your fishing rod/keys.
When my undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, Anxiety and Depression were
at their worst, I sometimes picked up a dining room chair and threw it
across the room. I screamed and yelled at my family. In short, I was crazy.
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Last edited by Lunacie; 10-20-13 at 11:31 AM.. Reason: fixed typo - missing letter
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  #127  
Old 10-20-13, 09:15 PM
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Re: ADD = asset

if i get called an un-evolved hunter gatherer by anyone ever again i will literally have to brick them in the face.....that includes you hallowell....:P

like f**k do i have the skills or concentration to be a hunter gatherer...here comes the loudest most impulsive cave girl in the forrest *bang, smash....look its a mother f**king squirrel...OHYEAH* WHOOPS...broke my cover

...i'd be nice and skinny thougn from never catching anything and i do feel i could rock a coconut shell bra top level squirrel spotter :P


anywaaaaaaay completely unrelated rant...but i hate it when people tell me that and have maybe 2 articles from the newspapers worth of knowledge and 0 life experience as to what ADHD is...they can f**k off
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  #128  
Old 10-21-13, 03:35 PM
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Re: ADD = asset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy12 View Post
For me, constantly being bombarded by a million random thoughts (and not all of them are amusing or interesting), having no self control whatsoever, and constantly needing stimulation so I don't lose the will to live, just isn't very pleasant. I don't think, it would be in any culture or with any life style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
Wish I could "thank" that post twice.

I'll do it for you!

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  #129  
Old 10-21-13, 03:37 PM
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Re: ADD = asset

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flory View Post
if i get called an un-evolved hunter gatherer by anyone ever again i will literally have to brick them in the face.....that includes you hallowell....:P

like f**k do i have the skills or concentration to be a hunter gatherer...here comes the loudest most impulsive cave girl in the forrest *bang, smash....look its a mother f**king squirrel...OHYEAH* WHOOPS...broke my cover

...i'd be nice and skinny thougn from never catching anything and i do feel i could rock a coconut shell bra top level squirrel spotter :P


anywaaaaaaay completely unrelated rant...but i hate it when people tell me that and have maybe 2 articles from the newspapers worth of knowledge and 0 life experience as to what ADHD is...they can f**k off
Amen, Sister!

I have a hunter friend who agrees -- without the rant part, she isn't ADHD. Hunting requires focus, attentiveness, concentration, patience, silence -- a LOT of things we are not good at.
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  #130  
Old 10-21-13, 04:08 PM
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Re: ADD = asset

Originally Posted by ADD me

Quote:
Well, my life is still full of forgetfulness and distractibility, even though I haven't lost my car keys in months.

If ADHD is a neuro developmental disorder, as is currently understood, then no matter which culture you are in, ISTM there would still be difficulties for those with it.

I noticed that, in the "gift do ADHD" materials I have read, the gifts appear AFTER you've had appropriate therapy and learned to manage your life better. And the gifts themselves are pretty much the same as the gifts of the population at large. I remain neither impressed or convinced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshT View Post
Examples? I've not noticed that pattern and it would be interesting to look at.
Boston Children's Hospital:

http://www.childrenshospital.org/hea...-disorder-adhd

From NCBI:
http://www.childrenshospital.org/hea...-disorder-adhd

The WebMD discussion of ADHD giftedness -- they aren't buying it, although they do agree that kids with ADHD do need support and help AND TREATMENT in using their gifts:

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childh...e-gift-in-adhd

From ADHD Coach Pete Quilly, copied from his partially commercial web site:

Some Topics Covered On This Blog:

Examples of the strengths of people with Adult ADHD, including people who have ADHD and see it as a competitive edge, IF you manage adult ADHD properly.

The challenges of living and working with Adult ADHD.

Adult ADHD Coaching and other practical ways to manage ADHD.

Research on Adult ADHD.

My opinions on Adult ADHD
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  #131  
Old 10-21-13, 04:44 PM
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Re: ADD = asset

I confess to having two experiences in life that might be a direct result of ADHD:

1. The fast brain, something noted by a few others. My strongest suit as an academic is seeing connections between A and B that are different. In college I was almost always the first one done with an exam -- so much so that sometimes I would wonder if I missed something. OTOH, I a currently doing a lot of the online cognitive function tests/ games, and my two weakest areas are concentration (no surprise there; on some of them, I am at the 4th percentile or some such) and -- wait for it -- speed. Go figure.

2. The experience of the power of a written text. It's something I would run into a lot in my work -- I'm a theologian, and in religious studies of all kinds, we talk about ancient texts, and why the narratives got written down, the role of written material in different cultures, etc. When I was experiencing the severe impairments I had after retirement, I started making to-do lists, and was amazed at how writing the stuff down could make my brain calmer, helping me resist distractions and cope with forgetfulness. Sometimes I would follow with the distraction, because I was afraid I would forget about doing whatever it was if I didn't do it right then.

So, I found myself thinking of the ancients who developed writing and were awed by what writing things down helped them DO. Not that they had ADHD brains, but perhaps the ADHD parts of my brain function more like the way they did back then, only it wasn't such a mismatch with the rest of their brain. But maybe cultural patterns of memory/ forgetfulness, motivation, and organization/ disorganization provided the cultural impetus for the development of writing, which in turn was crucial for the development of complex patterns of organization and other executive functions. You didn't HAVE to remember everything, like how many bags of grain you owed someone, or the all the stories about Odyssius or Gilgamesh -- you could write them down, and it was easier to remember where the tablets were.

Sorry to have rambled on so long, but we need a better evolutionary tale for these differently wired brains.
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  #132  
Old 10-29-13, 06:52 AM
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Re: ADD = asset

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Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
Wait, what? Ummmmm, sorry, lost my train of thought.. Oh yeah, ADD = Asset. Anyway, here's what I want to know, why do we all get so worked up over this?
Haha, I think I remember a few years ago someone saying because it's stimulating. I just hope some people aren't annoyed because of the triggered stimulated aggravation, and at least enjoy it and think it's fun.
In other words, I hope people don't get bothered by this at the end of the day and can't stop aggravating themselves w thoughts of the thread. In other words, I hope this isn't a negative thing in some way for people. If it is, didnt mean to bump the thread! Was just planning on checking up on it! But, I guess carry on? ...
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  #133  
Old 10-29-13, 09:38 PM
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Re: ADD = asset

I wouldn't sweat it.
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