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  #16  
Old 04-30-17, 11:59 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

DVD,

I don't want to label the kind of interest you mention as disregulation ... Because I think there is something innocent and tender and vulnerable about approaching someone whose talent or beauty moves us, even if from a distance. Sometimes the really well adjusted folks are so cautious that they won't dare experience strong feelings about others. And if they experience these feelings, they won't acknowledge them.

Your story sounds quite interesting, DVD. I once wrote a gushing and self-deprecatingly honest fan letter to one of my favorite writers at a national sports magazine. I told him how much I admired his writing, how miserable I was at my job. Basically I was saying, "I want to be like you."

I send off the letter and don't think about it, feel good for just having sent it. About three weeks later, the phone rings at my job, and the receptionist calls out this guy's name--that he is asking for me.

This phone call lasted 45 minutes to an hour as I recall. And the writer was absolutely wonderful and encouraging. He me a lot about his own life and his career. And he asked about my life.

What the famous writer did all through the conversation, now that I think about it, is how to gently ease himself off the pedestal I had erected for him. He told me a real story about his life and journey and struggles and success. So by the time I got off the phone, I had heard all the little steps and missteps that led to his success. He was still an idol to me, but somehow a much more real person.

So sometimes these "out-of-nowhere" attempts at connection can really work. The problem is admiration seems to scary to people if we approach them based on admiration. It's like everyone is secretly afraid that they will only disappoint us if we approach them with such admiration. And that can prove quite true!

Anyway, I think the impulse to reach out is a good one ... sure, we can be more skilled at it. Sure, some of us can fall too much "in love" with others from a distance. But there's something kinda nice about this whole experience, if the rest of the world thinks it's "creepy."

Love to hear more about your story with the person you approached and how they reacted ... how you approached them.

Tone
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Old 05-01-17, 06:03 AM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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Originally Posted by Postulate View Post
I don't agree with that. Body language in itself tells us most about the person, about 90%. So if you watch a woman walk in mini-skirt and high heels, the way she moves, the way her skirt undulates around her waist, the way she looks forward, a bit indifferent, with a superior air, bourgeoise, sophisticated, an ankle bracelet so provocateur...a sophisticated vulgarity, stepping lightly but firmly, her Extensor Digitorum Longus Tendons tightening as she takes a new step, eyes looking around with an impenetrable shine, inviting ways...
So wearing something she feels comfortable with, but you deem sexy and provocative, means she is trying to gain your attention to her body and that she is superior or has an air of superiority?
I think to wear shortish shorts and skirts in the summer, along with anklets and toerings and nice sandals. I like looking nice for me, and it is in no way to gain attention of men.
I have tons of ugg style boots too.
My skirts do not undulate.


Quote:
See, that's not you being a creep, that's a man interpreting reality. When she looks at you she sees something and when you look at her she sees something else. No one, man or woman, should feel sorry for his or her interpretation of reality. And there's also the part where, if she's not wearing UGGs it's obviously because she wants men to notice her Extensor Digitorum Longus Tendons, so where is the question of you being a creep if you gain exposure to something she wants you to be exposed to in the first place?
This is BS. You cant say your "creepiness" is reality, especially if it involves interpretation. If it does, then its subjective, not objective and nothing morey than an opinion.
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Old 05-01-17, 08:07 AM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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Originally Posted by Postulate View Post
I don't agree with that. Body language in itself tells us most about the person, about 90%. So if you watch a woman walk in mini-skirt and high heels, the way she moves, the way her skirt undulates around her waist, the way she looks forward, a bit indifferent, with a superior air, bourgeoise, sophisticated, an ankle bracelet so provocateur...a sophisticated vulgarity, stepping lightly but firmly, her Extensor Digitorum Longus Tendons tightening as she takes a new step, eyes looking around with an impenetrable shine, inviting ways...

See, that's not you being a creep, that's a man interpreting reality. When she looks at you she sees something and when you look at her she sees something else. No one, man or woman, should feel sorry for his or her interpretation of reality. And there's also the part where, if she's not wearing UGGs it's obviously because she wants men to notice her Extensor Digitorum Longus Tendons, so where is the question of you being a creep if you gain exposure to something she wants you to be exposed to in the first place?
You really can't assume so much. Well, you can but you are very likely to be wrong in most cases. When it comes to humans very little is obvious, especially at the superficial level we are discussing here. Your interpretation is an interpretation only. The only person who can reliably tell you what a woman means by her behaviour is the woman herself.
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Old 05-01-17, 11:15 AM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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You really can't assume so much. Well, you can but you are very likely to be wrong in most cases. When it comes to humans very little is obvious, especially at the superficial level we are discussing here. Your interpretation is an interpretation only. The only person who can reliably tell you what a woman means by her behaviour is the woman herself.
Here's the thing: She may not know herself. Not everyone has good levels of self-awareness, and some man as well as women, have abysmal self-awareness.

When I went out with one of my date's mother, late 30s, she told me that I have great legs and that I should wear short pants to reveal the hair and the muscles of my legs. Guess what, I wasn't aware of that fact until she told me! I didn't know! And it was true! What a great tip she gave me. Did I feel creeped out because she was staring at me? Nope.

Last edited by namazu; 05-02-17 at 07:56 PM.. Reason: guidelines; to keep thread on topic
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Old 05-01-17, 11:22 AM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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Originally Posted by Postulate View Post
I don't agree with that. Body language in itself tells us most about the person, about 90%. So if you watch a woman walk in mini-skirt and high heels, the way she moves, the way her skirt undulates around her waist, the way she looks forward, a bit indifferent, with a superior air, bourgeoise, sophisticated, an ankle bracelet so provocateur...a sophisticated vulgarity, stepping lightly but firmly, her Extensor Digitorum Longus Tendons tightening as she takes a new step, eyes looking around with an impenetrable shine, inviting ways...

See, that's not you being a creep, that's a man interpreting reality. When she looks at you she sees something and when you look at her she sees something else. No one, man or woman, should feel sorry for his or her interpretation of reality. And there's also the part where, if she's not wearing UGGs it's obviously because she wants men to notice her Extensor Digitorum Longus Tendons, so where is the question of you being a creep if you gain exposure to something she wants you to be exposed to in the first place?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. I'm referring to friendship.
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Old 05-01-17, 11:35 AM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. I'm referring to friendship.
With friendships, in my opinion, being excessively kind, talkative and giving uncalled for favours usually creeps people out because they can't figure out what you're getting out of it for your efforts.

I was creeped out by a 65 y.o. music teacher and singer (woman) who gave me one of her CDs saying that when she dies, that will have value and I can sell it. That was like...creepy, I said to myself, she may have good vocal cords but this isn't happening. Period.
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Old 05-01-17, 01:47 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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Originally Posted by Postulate View Post
Here's the thing: She may not know herself. Not everyone has good levels of self-awareness, and some man as well as women, have abysmal self-awareness.

When I went out with one of my date's mother, late 30s, she told me that I have great legs and that I should wear short pants to reveal the hair and the muscles of my legs. Guess what, I wasn't aware of that fact until she told me! I didn't know! And it was true! What a great tip she gave me. Did I feel creeped out because she was staring at me? Nope.
Not everyone has good self awareness but almost everyone will know themselves better than you know them.

Also your date's mother made a suggestion. She didn't infer anything from your behaviour.

Last edited by namazu; 05-02-17 at 07:54 PM.. Reason: consistency with edits to quoted text
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Old 05-01-17, 02:00 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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Originally Posted by Postulate View Post
With friendships, in my opinion, being excessively kind, talkative and giving uncalled for favours usually creeps people out because they can't figure out what you're getting out of it for your efforts.

I was creeped out by a 65 y.o. music teacher and singer (woman) who gave me one of her CDs saying that when she dies, that will have value and I can sell it. That was like...creepy, I said to myself, she may have good vocal cords but this isn't happening. Period.
What about getting asked for a favour and doing whatever I can to help that person? Is that creepy?

Seems most people if someone helps them they refuse to ever help that person back even if that person has helped them heaps of times out of kindness.

Seems most people are "fair weather friends", the moment they have what they want they pull out the "creep" card and vanish into thin air never to be seen again.
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Old 05-01-17, 03:50 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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What about getting asked for a favour and doing whatever I can to help that person? Is that creepy?
Yes, this can be creepy.....the clue is the "whatever I can" part of the sentence. Some people will get creeped out by asking for a small favour and then seeing you go massively out of your way to meet their need.

THere's a kind of code about helping people..... the effort made to meet the requested favour balances the level of friendship and the significance of the downside of not doing the favour.

For example, seeing a friend of a friend stranded a at the side of the road a few miles from home and offering them help is OK. Finding they want to go to 200 miles out of town and then insisting on driving them there becomes creepy.

If you "help them heaps of times out of kindness" before some form of reciprocity has been established then something's awry, not in them, but in you.

Know people by their actions, if you help them, make it a gift, not a loan. If you expect something in return at a future date you are being transactional, and this communicates itself..... people subconsciously know there is some kind of debt obligation thing happening..... so the more you do for them without reciprocity the more you're all on the Drama triangle, with inevitable consequence of shifting from Rescuer, to Persecutor to Victim.... & c &c &c.
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Old 05-01-17, 04:05 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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Yes, this can be creepy.....the clue is the "whatever I can" part of the sentence. Some people will get creeped out by asking for a small favour and then seeing you go massively out of your way to meet their need.

THere's a kind of code about helping people..... the effort made to meet the requested favour balances the level of friendship and the significance of the downside of not doing the favour.

For example, seeing a friend of a friend stranded a at the side of the road a few miles from home and offering them help is OK. Finding they want to go to 200 miles out of town and then insisting on driving them there becomes creepy.

If you "help them heaps of times out of kindness" before some form of reciprocity has been established then something's awry, not in them, but in you.

Know people by their actions, if you help them, make it a gift, not a loan. If you expect something in return at a future date you are being transactional, and this communicates itself..... people subconsciously know there is some kind of debt obligation thing happening..... so the more you do for them without reciprocity the more you're all on the Drama triangle, with inevitable consequence of shifting from Rescuer, to Persecutor to Victim.... & c &c &c.
But surely friendship goes two ways? Is it healthy for one person to give give give and give some more and one to take take take and take and if the one who gives needs some help and the take friend can help them but refuses then surely that's not a healthy friendship either?
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Old 05-01-17, 04:43 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

Of course a friendship goes two ways..... I didn't say otherwise.

If you give and give and the other person takes and takes, that's not a friendship..... the question is more about what is the process that drives the continual giving?

Is it that the other person asks for favour after favour, and you can't say no?
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Old 05-01-17, 07:30 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

Thanks Kilted. Totally agree with you. Call it the principle of proportionality.

Best to perform big favors for people we are close to ...

There are many problems with volunteering to do out-sized favors for people we're not close to ... for one, our doing so signals that we have nothing really going on in our lives ... And we signal neediness ... and people really don't like neediness in others. And we've escalated the friendship without cause ... the things you would do for a close friends of years are not things we should do at the spur of the moment for an acquaintance.

The other point is this ... let's say I do some huge "favor" or deed for someone I barely know. Well ... people who might be interested in being friends with me ... or my friends ... could easily think, "Wow, Tone won't prioritize time with me. He'll drop time with me, time with serious life stuff to help some stranger who he doesn't even know ... without real reason to do so."

Yes, I have spent too much time giving unasked for favors ... out of some misguided notion that I would be viewed in some special way. Instead, yes it comes off as uncomfortable and creepy. Not the way to build relationships, whether friendship or more. Strange and selfish as it sounds, I had to learn to make sure I asked favors of other people if I really needed their help. Doing the one-side thing of focusing on helping others does not work. That's just another way of keeping distance and hiding and blocking real nurture and connection.

Tone
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Old 05-01-17, 07:43 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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If you give and give and the other person takes and takes, that's not a friendship..... the question is more about what is the process that drives the continual giving?
I can imagine a situation where one has been conditioned as a giver from a very early age because the primary parental figure has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and is only capable of seeing other people as a supply of resources and opportunities, and so in turn takes, takes, and takes some more.


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Old 05-01-17, 11:55 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

If your friend's mother suddenly offers you dinner, you probably accept and consider it a generous act. But if she offers you a house as a gift, you definitely wonder what's wrong, because obviously that's too much.

Those ones are pretty obvious. It's the cases in between the obvious ones, that can be tricky to understand.
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Old 05-02-17, 01:03 PM
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Re: How can someone know if they crossed the line from curiosity to creepiosity?

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I can imagine a situation where one has been conditioned as a giver from a very early age because the primary parental figure has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and is only capable of seeing other people as a supply of resources and opportunities, and so in turn takes, takes, and takes some more.
Spot on... this operates on many levels, both conscious where the parent asks directly, and the subconscious manipulation that makes it clear to the child that the parents wants are the priority.
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