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Old 11-30-05, 03:02 PM
AddysonsMom23 AddysonsMom23 is offline
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need quick response

I am talking to my mom. I once read something about a form of add called SCET or SET something?? Anyone know what this is thanks!
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Old 11-30-05, 03:29 PM
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It's SCT and it's not official yet. It's Barkley's idea about a seperate kind of inattentive (one without a whiff of hyperactivity). It stands for Slow Cognitive Tempo. People with SCT actually have an attention problem according to Barkley and are not prone to ODD or Conduct Disorder. They tend to be people pleasers. Hope this helps.

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Old 11-30-05, 03:31 PM
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Thahks!
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Old 11-30-05, 03:54 PM
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I found this information on Barkley's on-line CEU class under the category Inattentive Subtypes (maybe way to much info! ).

"Research is mounting on the Inattentive subtype of ADHD (I-type) that suggests that it differs in many important respects from children with the Combined (C-type) of the disorder. Children with the C-type manifest more oppositional and aggressive symptoms, a greater likelihood of having ODD and CD, and more peer rejection than I-type children (Crystal et al., 2001; Milich et al., 2001; Willcutt et al., 1999). Those with the I-type also may have a qualitatively different impairment in attention (selective attention and speed of information processing) (see Milich et al., 2001 for a thorough review). More than twice as many C-type children than I-type may be diagnosed as Oppositional Defiant Disorder (41% vs. 19%), using DSM?III?R criteria, and more than three times as many as having Conduct Disorder (21% vs. 6%) (Barkley, DuPaul, & McMurray, 1990). The C-type children may also be more likely to have speech and language problems (Cantwell & Baker, 1992). The C-type children are described as more noisy, disruptive, messy, irresponsible, and immature. In contrast, I-type children are characterized as more daydreamy, hypoactive, passive, apathetic, lethargic, confused, withdrawn, and sluggish than C-type children (Edelbrock, Costello, & Kessler, 1984; Lahey, Shaughency, Strauss, & Frame, 1984; Lahey et al., 1987; McBurnett, Pfiffner, & Frick, 2001; Milich et al., 2001). Research suggests that these symptoms of sluggish cognitive tempo (SCT) in the I-type form a separate dimension of inattention from that in the DSM-IV (McBurnett et al., 2001) that may have resulted in their being prematurely discarded from the DSM-IV inattention list (Milich et al., 2001). A recent study by Carlson and Mann (in press) indicates that if the subset of I-type children characterized by these SCT are separated from other I-type children not so characterized, then greater problems with anxiety/depression, social withdrawal, and general unhappiness and fewer problems with externalizing symptoms may be more evident in this SCT subset. fficeffice" />>>
Social passivity and withdrawal have been reported in other studies of I-type children as well when using parent and teacher ratings of social adjustment (Maedgen & Carlson, 2000; Milich et al., 2001). Direct observations of the peer interactions of these subtypes tend to corroborate these ratings, finding that C-type children are more prone to fighting and arguing whereas I-type children are more shy (Hodgens, Cole, & Boldizar, 2000). >>

Research using objective tests and other lab measures has met with mixed results in identifying consistent distinctions between these subtypes. When measures of academic achievement and neuropsychological functions have been used, most studies found no important differences between the groups (Carlson, Lahey, & Neeper, 1986; Casey et al., 1996; Lamminmaki, Aohen, Narhi, Lyytinen, & Todd de Barra, 1995) ?? both groups were found to be more impaired in academic skills and in some cognitive areas than normal control children. A more recent study suggests that the C-type is more impaired in response inhibition (Nigg, Blaskey, Huang-Pollack, & Rappley, 2002) but otherwise manifests comparable deficits on executive function tasks. As in many studies of this issue, sample sizes were low such that statistical power may have compromised the sensitivity of the study to all but large effect sizes. Hynd and colleagues (Hynd et al., 1991; Morgan, Hynd, Riccio, & Hall, 1996) found greater academic underachievement, particularly in math, and a higher percentage of learning disabilities (60 percent) in their samples of I-type children compared to C-type children. My colleagues and I, however, were not able to find any differences between the subtypes on measures of achievement or in rates of LD (Barkley, 1990). Nor were Casey et al. (1996) able to find such differences in achievement or rates of LD using the same means to define the subtypes and to classify children as LD. Both groups of ADHD children were impaired in their academic achievement. Our own study also found both subtypes to have been retained in grade (32% in each group), and placed in special education considerably more than our normal control children (45% vs. 53%). We did find that C-type children were more likely to have been placed in special classes for behavior disordered children (emotionally disturbed) than the I-type (12% vs. 0%) while the latter children were more likely to be in classes for learning disabled (LD) children than the C-type children (34% for +H and 53% for ?H). Others have also found that I-type children needed more remedial assistance in school than C-type children (Faraone, Biederman, Weber, & Russell, 1998). We found that both groups seem to have equivalent rates of LD but it is the additional problems with conduct and antisocial behavior that are likely to result in the C-type children being assigned to the behaviorally disturbed programs rather than the LD programs. Only one study has examined handwriting problems among subtypes of ADHD children (Marcotte & Stern, 1997) and found them to be greatest in the C-type but present to some extent in the I-type compared to control children. >>

Unfortunately, few of these studies have directly addressed the issue of whether these subtypes differ in the components of attention they disrupt. This would require a more comprehensive and objective assessment of different components of attention in both groups. But the results of some studies suggest that their attentional disturbances are not identical (see Milich et al., 2001). I-type children may have more deficits on tests of selective or focused attention, such as the coding subtest of the WISC?R, problems in the consistent retrieval of verbal information from memory, and even more visuo-spatial deficits than C-type children (Barkley, DuPaul et al., 1990; Garcia-Sanchez, Estevez-Gonzalez, Suarez-Romero, & Junque, 1997; Johnson, Altmaier, & Richman, 1999). C-type children, in contrast, have more problems with motor inhibition, sequencing, and planning (Barkley, Grodzinsky, & DuPaul, 1992; Marcotte & Stern, 1997; Nigg et al., 2002). These findings intimate a qualitative difference in the attention deficits of I-type children that may fall more in the realms of perceptual?motor speed and central cognitive processing speed.>>

Studies of family psychiatric disorders are also limited and inconsistent. Some have found the C-type children to have families with greater marital discord between their parents, and more maternal psychiatric disorders generally (Cantwell & Baker, 1992). We found a greater history of ADHD among the paternal relatives and of substance abuse among the maternal relatives in the C-type children (Barkley, DuPaul et al., 1990). In contrast, Frank and Ben?Nun (1988) did not find such differences in family histories. Moreover, we noted a significantly greater prevalence of anxiety disorders among the maternal relatives of the I-type children that was not reported by the Frank and Ben?Nun study. That finding, however, also was not replicated in another study of family history (Lahey & Carlson, 1992) suggesting that anxiety disorders may not be more common among the relatives of ADD/-H children.>>

In general, these results suggest that I-type children have considerably different patterns of psychiatric comorbidity than C-type children, being at significantly greater risk for other Disruptive Behavior Disorders, academic placement in programs for behaviorally disturbed children, school suspensions, and receiving psychotherapeutic interventions than are I-type children. The research also appears to indicate that children with I-type can be distinguished in a number of domains of social adjustment from those with C-type. Cognitive differences are less consistently noted but may have to do with sample selection procedures in which the I-type children are chosen solely on the DSM inattention list rather than focusing more on symptoms of SCT that are not represented in that list. Based on the evidence available to date I concur with Milich et al. (2001) that we should begin considering these two subtypes as actually separate and unique childhood psychiatric disorders and not as subtypes of an identical attention disturbance. >>

A survey (Szatmari et al., 1989a) indicates that the prevalence of these two disorders within the population is different, especially in the childhood years (6 to 11 years of age). The I-type appears to be considerably less prevalent than the C-type in this epidemiological study. Only 1.4 percent of boys and 1.3 percent of girls have I-type while 9.4 percent of boys and 2.8 percent of girls have the C-type. These figures change considerably in the adolescent age groups, where 1.4% of males and 1% of females have I-type while 2.9% of males and 1.4% of females have the C-type. In other words, the rates of I-type remain relatively stable across these developmental age groupings while C-type, especially in males, shows a considerable decline in prevalence with age. Among all children with either type, about 78 percent of boys and 63 percent of girls will have the C-type type of disorder. Baumgaertel et al. (1995) found a considerably higher prevalence rate for I-type among German school children. Using the DSM-III definitions for these subtypes, 3.2 percent had the I-type type while 6.4 percent had the C-type type. In contrast, when the more recent DSM-IV criteria for subtyping was employed, 9 percent of the children met criteria for the I-type while 8.8 percent fell into the Hyperactive-Impulsive and C-Types . The differences in these studies are difficult to reconcile as both employed rating scales to define their subtypes. However, the Szatmari et al. (1989) study did not use DSM symptom lists but constructed their subtypes based on rating scale items whereas Baumgaertel et al. (1995) employed symptom lists from the past three versions of the DSM.>>

It remains to be seen just how stable the I-type is over development. No follow-up studies have focused on this subtype of ADHD and so the long-term risks associated with it remain unknown.">>

Scattered
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Old 11-30-05, 04:11 PM
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Wow, sounds a lot like me.
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Old 11-30-05, 04:32 PM
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I'm inattentive ADD and I definitely didn't have whiff of hyperactivity in my childhood - very shy and quiet. But I scored in the high average range for processing speed and my mind definitelty doesn't sound sluggish to me. So I don't know where I'd fit into Barkley's theory.
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Old 11-30-05, 06:31 PM
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the 'h' in AD/HD is traditionally/officially a description of outward appearances. so, the kids bouncing off the walls and hanging from the door jamb. kinesthetic is the word that pops into my brain ... but, i think hyperactivity can be unseen too. my mind is hyperactive, even though my body is not. so, there's my "whiff" ... i think we're called 'innattentives' mainly because that's the charecteristic that we most look like. no one can see how 'hyper' our brains actually are....

SCT isn't formally recognised, so, unless you like studying theories, I'd say don't worry too much about where you fit, at least until it's done being sorted out. it's interesting to see more resources being devoted toward the study of us innatentive types.
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Old 11-30-05, 06:42 PM
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Until further notice,meaning the DSM V comes out an (hopefully) addresses whether or not SCT is a different disorder, please don't worry about it treatment wise.

Just make sure your own treatment approach for ADHD -PI (Predominantly Inattentive Type ) or whatever else is going on, is working well or not.

At the same time, if people want to read about SCT, that's perfectly fine; with the caveat that no one has proven it's a different disorder.

Until I (personally & professionally ) see it addressed in the DSM (meaning it has to have the research to back it up), I'm not going to look at it as anything other than ADHD-PI.

Stuff like this is interesting, but please don't get sidetracked.

Good luck.

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Old 12-01-05, 02:54 PM
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In Brown's book, Attention Deficit Disorder: The Unfocused Mind in Children and Adults he disagree's with Barkley over whether it is a seperate disorder citing studies that show that an ADHD parent is equally likely to have either hyperactive or inattentive children or both!


I'm with Wheezie on this one -- I was the traditional hyperactive bouncing off the walls diagnosed before I even hit school (as is my daughter -- and I have hand prints on my walls to prove it!). But as I got older the hyperactivity became more mental. I still hate sitting still unless there is something really riviting my attention, but I do it and most people wouldn't suspect me of being hyperactivity (hypertalkative, yes but not hyperactive). In the book from the ADD Forums called Think Fast in a chapter called Rhythms of the Racing Brain Caria Berg Nelson says,

"But less clear and less often discussed is what distinguishes one type of ADD from another. Many ADDers -- and their physicians -- still don't see that ADD can be a problem of thinking too much as well as thinking too little, that people like us can be driven by hyperactive bodies and hyperactive mind."

"I agree with the clinicians who find "over- and under-focusing" a very useful way to depict the breadth of ADD, because it makes it clear that "inattention" can result from thinkin g too much as well as thinking too little. The harder you focus on a single thing, the less you attend to everything else, while the less focused you are, the less you attend to everything in general. Thus you can be persistently inattentive from either over- or under-focusing and thus do over- and under-attentiveness both produce attention deficits.

"In simpler terms, you could say the under-focused are propelled by racing bodies, while the over-focused are driven by speeding minds. One is fueled by the physical stimulus of action or sensation, the other is propelled by the cerebral stimulus of ideas or emotions.

"Both types are run by racing brains that take constant infusions of highly charged stimulus fuel -- that's what makes them both ADD. But each takes a diffeent kind of propellant to energize. One uses the body to power the mind; the othe uses the mind to power the body.

"The Speeding Body: Kinetic Energy

Do you need action or danger to keep your attention tuned int? If so, it may be that your racing ADD brain is powered by 'kinetic' energy -- the energy of motion. You are quick to move, but slow to ponder. Overactive kinetically, compelled to keep moving, you struggle to stay plugged in to any task that required sustained cerebral 'thought energy.' If it is hard to switch off your body and turn on your mind, you may be this mentally 'under-focused' type.

"The Speeding Mind: Cerebral Energy

Are you quick to think but slow to move? Prone to ponder too much and do too little? If so, your racing brain may be powered by 'cerebral' energy, the energy of thought, which means your most powerful stimulus fuel comes from ideas and emotions. Overactive mentally, compelled to keep thinking, your struggle is to find the 'oomph' to follow through, or to detach and switch your focus to something else. If you find it hard to turn off your ideas or turn down your feelins, you may be this mentally 'over-focused' type."

Sorry this is so long, but I really like it because "The Speeding Mind" describes me to a T. Of course I still like to move if my mind isn't busily engaged and moving while my mind is engaged is the best of all! (I pretty much wore out the dorm hall carpets pacing when I was in college). She also explains how one switches from one state to another.

Attention in Flux: A Matrix of Inattentive States

Attention>>>>>>>> Underfocused>>>>>>>>Overfocused>>>>>>>> Hyperfocused

Arousal
v

Level 1>>>>>>>>>>>>> Type l>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Type 2>>>>>>>>>>>>> Type 3
Under-aroused >>>>>>>>Impulsive Explorer >>>>>>>>Restless Seeker >>>>>>>>>Relentless Climber

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Space Cadet-Jaywalker>>>>>>>>Preoccpied Procrastinator>>>>>>>>Boundary Breaker

(impulsive)>>>>>>>>> (scattered)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(distracted) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(audacious)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sporatic overactivity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sporatic overfocusing>>>>>>>> intermittent hyperfocusing

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sustained inattention>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sustaied inattention>>>>>>>> agitated preoccupation

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>drive to seek arousal>>>>>>>>>>>>>>driven to seek arousal >>>>>>>>driven to sustain arousal

v

Level 2
Over-aroused>>>> Gambler-Rebel>>>>>> Comulsive Creator>>>>>>>> Revolutionary-Martyr

(compulsive) >>>>>>>>(reckless)>>>>>>>>>>>> (impelled)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(abandoned)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>chronic overactivity>>>>>>>>chronic overfocusing>>>>>>>>hyperfocusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>intermittent inattention>>>>>>>>intermittent inattention>>>>>>>>intense preoccupation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>driven to sustain arousal>>>>>>>>driven to sustain arousal>>>>>>>>>driven to sate arousal

v

Level 3
Hyper-aroused>>>> Daredevil-Outlaw>>> Inconsistent Perfectionist>>>>>> Tortured SoulKamikaze

(obsessive)>>>>>>>>>>>> (heedless)>>>>>>>> (tenacious)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (consumed)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prolonged overactivity>>> prolonged overfocusing>>>>>>>>incessant hyperfocusing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>intense preoccupation>>> agitated preoccupation>>>>>>>>driven to quell arousal

"The matrix was createdby plotting a scale of attention and arousal together. As you move down the side, you see the effects of increasing arousal, from Level 1 to Level 3. Moving across the top of the chart, from type to type, you see the effects of increasing attention." (p. 50)
I'd be interested in hearing anybody elses thoughts on this matrix and her description of the types.

Sorry, if I got carried away here -- having taken my meds in 5 days -- boys and girls can you say "hyperfocus"? So much for a "quick" reply.

Scattered

PS: I see the computer took out all spaces in my lovely grid, but maybe you get the idea.
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Old 12-01-05, 03:35 PM
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I agree with Mctavish2's post. I would just add one thing. When Barkley talks about Inattentives being SCT, he is only referring to SOME inattentives (about 30% of ADHD-PI IIRC). It gets confusing because some of the Barkley quotes often quoted sound like he is talking about all inattentives. He considers his SCT group to be 'true inattentives' since the rest of the inattentives have minor combined traits (but not enough for a formal combined diagnosis).

Another thing is information on SCT is hard to come by, and most of what exists is rather dense since it's written for other researchers. Most people shouldn't think about SCT at this time, unless you are interested in advanced research.
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Old 08-06-07, 02:26 PM
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Interesting for sure, but as long as it's close enough to ADHD-PI and is treated the exact same way (i.e. most of us with SCT-like symptoms do well with stimulants like Adderall) I don't think it's a big deal. Still though, for technical and scientific reasons, I could definately see why they might want to separate it from 'classic' hyperactive ADHD...
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