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  #121  
Old 12-17-07, 04:04 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823
First of all: what exactly is "normal" any way? I figured the male libido varied as it does among females.
By "normal" I meant that the average hetero male has a MUCH HIGHER sex drive than the average hetero female. Even though their actual experiences often seem to reflect the converse, but that is because of the active/passive roles they play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823
Fourth: - I do believe the issue is honesty NOT sex drive - expecting honestly is not unreasonable no matter what a person's gender is.
Up to a point I agree with you, but IMHO Honesty is over-rated in relationships. A woman shouldn't go about telling her husband about so-and-so's anatomy, or the night she did this or that at the frat house (before marriage), or the spring break party where she was the center of attention, or whatever other details she might be hiding in the closet, should she? Maybe people should just be a little less honest about sexual matters, in the interest of a harmonious relationship. Fidelity, on the other hand, is an absolute necessity, because otherwise what is the relationship about? Anybody can go hook up in bars, one doesn't need a wedding ring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823
How about it he/she talks about it while they are negotiating a relationship - if one doesn't understand negotiating the expectations of a relationship perhaps you have stumbled upon the problem.
If your hubby promised he'd never look at adult media and he does, then maybe it's time to split, if it's really that important to you. But if it's not THAT important, you should talk through it and find some compromise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823
By the way Victorian comes in two sexes NOT just the female one. . .. I am the female and it is my husband who prefers the more "traditional style" relationship. . . . it is I who willingly gave up some of my "wild side" in our negotiation phase.
I don't want to speculate on what you meant by that, but my post only referred to guys looking at adult pictorials, not about cheating or swinging or any of that crazy stuff.

Last edited by dyingInside; 12-17-07 at 04:05 PM.. Reason: grammar
  #122  
Old 12-17-07, 06:01 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

Fraz, you are the exception, you are 17, and it is more reasonable in your case because of your age, I was a lot like that at your age and I grew out of it.


meadd- I posted in the menstrual cycles and bipolar disorder one because I saw an article that was related to it and wanted to share that, unless there is some other male I don't know about that likes to post in the women's section too... I have mood cycles of my own so I kinda get it right? maybe, maybe not, I don't know but I am not ashamed of it, I post on a lot of the women with ADHD ones.
  #123  
Old 02-06-08, 10:16 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orbit1 View Post
Visual stimulation. Ive know many females who like reading romance novels, no difference really.
Good point. I think that both men and women like porn. However, each of their definition of porn is perhaps a bit different.

If you're a married man with kid in tow then you must be responsible about what you see and what you end up leaving behind (web site wise).

Women, I don't believe require this visual stimulation as much but rather like to keep it in their own head perhaps. Just guessing here.

Some of the stuff out there is rather amazi..er.. absurd. But if you can take it for what it's worth and leave it behind....no harm..no foul. I can however see where someone may want this stimulation ALL the time and that does take it to a different level. However, I'm mainly focusing on the average joe-blow level. Where it's neat and cool and all but obviously [sadly] doesn't exist in real life. ....right? (?)

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  #124  
Old 02-06-08, 12:56 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

Most men seem to like porn and I think most don't give it up in a marriage, but it should decrease. But with women its always the same story, always a problem with it. So I think many men hide it even if its not a big problem / addiction. And there is no connection between porn interests and cheating on a partner.

Its a scientific fact that men get stimulated more with what they see, while women are more likely to get that effect from reading. So if you are going to consider porn as a unfaithful thing then you could also say the same thing about women and their steamy romance novels.

I advice women to be less negative about it because then it can all be out in the open, you could even try watching porn together. It might spice up your sex life.
  #125  
Old 02-06-08, 03:25 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

not all women have a problem with porn. just like not all men are consumers of porn.

it depends how much porn the partner is consuming. does it affect the way the couple interacts? less intimacy, less quality time with each other?

it depends on the type of porn. just naked people in pictures? hardcore videos? degrading stuff? homosexual? beastiality? underage?

it depends on why it's being used. is it a replacement for actual physical intimacy with a partner? some need/s not being met? unhappiness within the relationship? addiction?

it depends on when it's being used. when the other partner is out of town? every free moment? before or during moments of intimacy with the other partner? trying to hide it?

women (and men) do have very real, very valid reasons to be concerned about pornography consumption in general. communication with the partner is key.

as an aside, i hate this whole "men have higher libidos than women". it's unfair, and not true. women were never allowed to have normal, healthy libidos until quite recently (think the '70's and on), and there were very horrible results of women who acted on their natural instincts...there still are.

this myth can be very damaging in relationships. i myself have had problems when a significant other felt i was "too sexual" (note: this is not about promiscuity). other women in my life had also had these types of experiences. i don't really feel that telling women to "not be so negative about it" is constructive, and it's very dismissive. "well, you're a woman, so your concerns aren't valid, you're just a prude cuz everyone knows women hate sex. i am a man, and don't have to be held to personal accountability in regards to my sexuality and actions."
  #126  
Old 02-06-08, 11:00 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

A lot of modern people are tempted by porn, given the internet's abundance of access, and relative anonymity. Part of the allure is that you don't have to go to a seedy newsstand to buy something you don't want to be seen with. Also, depending on how someone is wired, they may get an extra charge out of the illicit nature of a private act. It might seem odd that he won't talk to you about it, but perhaps he doesn't want to hurt your feelings. It may be that even if you were neutral about it, he may have a difficulty opening up, since it feels dirty. It often depends on how we were raised.

If it is causing you problems, you may consider counseling, to help you feel comfortable with each other's choices. He needs to act responsibly around children, but what that means is somewhat subject to your agreed upon discretion as parents. I saw a few R rated films in grade school, but they were nothing compared to what you might see with a simple Google search.

I don't judge either one of you. But you can work something out. It doesn't mean you are not getting the job done. Some people look at pictures of cars. Freud I ain't.
  #127  
Old 02-07-08, 07:02 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

It seems to me that the viewing of such materials is not so much a function of age as it is a function of the man's dissatisfaction with his relationship situation (either he has none, or the current one isn't working). Which creates a positive (accelerated) feedback in many cases, because most (but not all) women take offense to it due to social programming, without realizing why it is happening. Then the woman gets even less interested and the man becomes more alienated, and the relationship gets even worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supamook View Post
as an aside, i hate this whole "men have higher libidos than women". it's unfair, and not true. women were never allowed to have normal, healthy libidos until quite recently (think the '70's and on), and there were very horrible results of women who acted on their natural instincts...there still are.
Since men have higher testosterone levels and different evolutionary prerogatives (tendency to be more polygamous, less committed, more visual), I still stand by the idea that men on average have a higher sex drive (there are always some outliers). This is not intended as an insult, but it just seems like a lot of political correctness to say otherwise. As you basically stated, we are now in a so-called "liberated" era thanks to the pill, feminism, and the hippie generation. If females were as interested in men, why are there lots of strip clubs for men and not so many for women? Why do men consume most pornography and women very little?

Please note that sex drive itself does not equate with sexual history or number of partners (these could be a function of still-prevailing traditions regarding who initiates conduct, and dominance/submission dynamics). The instinct and the behavior are two different things. Also keep in mind that in many cultures (Catholic Ireland, for example, or more recently among some US evangelicals), men have also been expected to control their sexual behavior until marriage (with varying degrees of success).
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  #128  
Old 02-09-08, 12:31 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

Porn to men is the equivilant of a vibrator for women. A lot of women cannot get off without a device like a vibrator. Some men need to look at porn when masterbating in order to get off or to help them get off. It's perfectly normal to look at porn and it's perfectly normal for a woman to use a vibrator. It's normal to masterbate and it helps keep you healthy. It helps in bettering yourself when you bring your partner into the scenario. These are things that you need to learn to accept in order to better yourself. If you have a religious addiction and you choose to ignore these facts then you have no one to blame but yourself for your problems.

Also, men have, on average, 10 times more testosterone than women, which is why they have a higher sex drive.

If you cannot accept that most people need aids (porn, vibrators ect.) in achieving orgasm, then you are just plain ignorant to the truth and you're the only one at fault.

Grow up and get over it. Is your self-esteem that low that you get jealous that your partner has difficulty getting off? Instead of putting the blame on them, why not try and help them in achieving that goal.
  #129  
Old 02-09-08, 12:40 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by supamook View Post
not all women have a problem with porn. just like not all men are consumers of porn.

it depends how much porn the partner is consuming. does it affect the way the couple interacts? less intimacy, less quality time with each other?

it depends on the type of porn. just naked people in pictures? hardcore videos? degrading stuff? homosexual? beastiality? underage?

it depends on why it's being used. is it a replacement for actual physical intimacy with a partner? some need/s not being met? unhappiness within the relationship? addiction?

it depends on when it's being used. when the other partner is out of town? every free moment? before or during moments of intimacy with the other partner? trying to hide it?

women (and men) do have very real, very valid reasons to be concerned about pornography consumption in general. communication with the partner is key.

as an aside, i hate this whole "men have higher libidos than women". it's unfair, and not true. women were never allowed to have normal, healthy libidos until quite recently (think the '70's and on), and there were very horrible results of women who acted on their natural instincts...there still are.

this myth can be very damaging in relationships. i myself have had problems when a significant other felt i was "too sexual" (note: this is not about promiscuity). other women in my life had also had these types of experiences. i don't really feel that telling women to "not be so negative about it" is constructive, and it's very dismissive. "well, you're a woman, so your concerns aren't valid, you're just a prude cuz everyone knows women hate sex. i am a man, and don't have to be held to personal accountability in regards to my sexuality and actions."
mmmm this post is pretty spot on.

I have a friend (mid-40s) who was married and though she didn't divorce her husband due to porn or anything, she stated that as long as it's not hidden and the reasons why one watches it is clear, then it shouldn't be a huge issue.

Hiding it, by and large, is really bad.

I mean, as the quoted post states, if it's a substitute for real intimacy with the SO.. there's a major problem that needs to be addressed. If it's to "tame the beast" at 10pm on a Tuesday night when the SO's on a business trip to Florida... that's different.
  #130  
Old 02-09-08, 03:57 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

Quote:
not all women have a problem with porn. just like not all men are consumers of porn.

it depends how much porn the partner is consuming. does it affect the way the couple interacts? less intimacy, less quality time with each other?

it depends on the type of porn. just naked people in pictures? hardcore videos? degrading stuff? homosexual? beastiality? underage?

it depends on why it's being used. is it a replacement for actual physical intimacy with a partner? some need/s not being met? unhappiness within the relationship? addiction?

it depends on when it's being used. when the other partner is out of town? every free moment? before or during moments of intimacy with the other partner? trying to hide it?

women (and men) do have very real, very valid reasons to be concerned about pornography consumption in general. communication with the partner is key.

as an aside, i hate this whole "men have higher libidos than women". it's unfair, and not true. women were never allowed to have normal, healthy libidos until quite recently (think the '70's and on), and there were very horrible results of women who acted on their natural instincts...there still are.

this myth can be very damaging in relationships. i myself have had problems when a significant other felt i was "too sexual" (note: this is not about promiscuity). other women in my life had also had these types of experiences. i don't really feel that telling women to "not be so negative about it" is constructive, and it's very dismissive. "well, you're a woman, so your concerns aren't valid, you're just a prude cuz everyone knows women hate sex. i am a man, and don't have to be held to personal accountability in regards to my sexuality and actions
Nice post . . . .supamook

This view of 'men have higher libidos than women' seems to predominate with those who believe all sane people are heterosexual and live according to traditional values of marriage . . . and all other perspectives are crazy and therefore invalid - I agree it is annoying especially in this day and age - of "tolerance" -




Quote:
Fidelity, on the other hand, is an absolute necessity, because otherwise what is the relationship about? Anybody can go hook up in bars, one doesn't need a wedding ring.
Relationships can be about what ever a couple decides for them to be about - fidelity may be your idea of what relationships should be about and there is nothing wrong with that view in and of itself

I do however find it rather myopic to believe all "sane" people share the exact same values - especially sense it appears you have little personal knowledge in life styles outside of your own therefore making presumptions is an inaccurate endeavor at best -



Quote:
I don't want to speculate on what you meant by that, but my post only referred to guys looking at adult pictorials, not about cheating or swinging or any of that crazy stuff.
There is no speculation to be made I am being very obvious from which perspective I am challenging your archaic views



Quote:
This is not intended as an insult, but it just seems like a lot of political correctness to say otherwise.
LMAO - pot this is kettle, kettle this is a pot -



Quote:
. If females were as interested in men, why are there lots of strip clubs for men and not so many for women? Why do men consume most pornography and women very little?
Maybe not all women are interested in MEN! {for reasons that should by now be painfully obvious. . . . }

{hello}




so much for


Quote:
"liberated" era

{what ever}










Are we there yet -

{gravy}
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  #131  
Old 02-09-08, 05:29 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

Yes women have higher sex urges than society accepted before... but still doesn't change the fact that on average men have a higher sex drive. Remember I said average, thats not generalizing. Men and women are different in many ways and it annoys me how extreme feminism in the modern world tries to decrease those differences or pretend its not there. And again even if the sex drive is equal... again men are more stimulated by pictures and videos than women. Its been scientificly proven messuring brain activity on both sexes while watching erotic material. And again its the other way around when reading or hearing erotic stories, then its the other way around and women are more effected by it.

Its a healthy thing to still masturbate in a relationship Have your "own time" sexually. A lot of modern men are used to having stimulating material while getting off by them-self, its hard to go back considering that even when in a relationship.
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Old 02-09-08, 08:29 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geiri View Post
Yes women have higher sex urges than society accepted before... but still doesn't change the fact that on average men have a higher sex drive. Remember I said average, thats not generalizing. Men and women are different in many ways and it annoys me how extreme feminism in the modern world tries to decrease those differences or pretend its not there. And again even if the sex drive is equal... again men are more stimulated by pictures and videos than women. Its been scientificly proven messuring brain activity on both sexes while watching erotic material. And again its the other way around when reading or hearing erotic stories, then its the other way around and women are more effected by it.

Its a healthy thing to still masturbate in a relationship Have your "own time" sexually. A lot of modern men are used to having stimulating material while getting off by them-self, its hard to go back considering that even when in a relationship.
I completely agree, society in general is too afraid of stereotyping and generalizing because of scumbag extremists. You should only get offended by people who are stereotyping if you are living up to those negative stereotypes.


I mean, do you really believe that men aren't, on average, physically stronger than women? Since I can answer No, then why is it so hard to accept that men typically have a higher sex drive than women? You want proof, go check out adultfriendfinder and tell me what the ratio of men to women is.

Last edited by meadd823; 02-10-08 at 08:29 AM.. Reason: off topic , tone please see guidelines
  #133  
Old 02-09-08, 10:22 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

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Originally Posted by dyingInside View Post
If females were as interested in men, why are there lots of strip clubs for men and not so many for women? Why do men consume most pornography and women very little?
um...oh, i don't know, maybe...and this is just a guess, but maybe men and women have different ways of expressing their sexuality?

at the risk of being un-pc, i think it is the height of absolute stupidity to measure a woman's sexuality by holding her to male standards of sexuality.

which is what our society does, repeatedly...and i don't understand why. we easily admit and understand that men and women are fundamentally different (not unequal)...so why can't we understand that our sexualities are different as well (but not unequal)?!

come on. just because women don't spend hours downloading hundreds of gigs of the latest Max Hardcore videos, does not mean that she does not have just as strong of a libido.

and really, adultfriendfinder?! what that shows is simply that men are much more willing to have sex with many anonymous strangers they meet online. simply because women are not seeking random strangers to have sex with, is not a measure of libido. it is a measure of caution, and of what one is willing to do to satisfy their sexual desires, but it is NOT a measure of the actual sexual desire.

correlation /= causation.

i think people who say those things, really truly have no idea how female sexuality works.
and they are usually the ones that actually, truly, don't understand the very real, and very valid reasons why certain actions (see the original topic of porn consumption) can be a problem....part of that is because they don't want to really get that close to a female...it can be scary, and intimidating to find out just how deep and intense female sexual desires and needs are.

which may be why they choose the porn, instead of trying to really understand their real-life partners...porn is never disappointed, or left wanting.

myths and stereotypes are so much more comfortable than examining oneself and admitting flaws.


*note that i never, ever said that porn was a bad thing in and of itself.
  #134  
Old 02-09-08, 11:54 PM
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Re: Men and porn?

I think it is entirely true that, generally, men possess the instinct to have sex with more partners than women. Everywhere you look in the animal kingdom we observe that the sex that produces the most gametes (sperm and eggs) will attempt to mate more often. Usually this is the male, but there are exceptions where the female can reproduce more often and attempts to do so with many partners.
Any human female can reproduce a little more than once a year. Any human male can reproduce many more times that number, correct? In the history of human evolution, if a male arose that did not possess the instinct to reproduce as much as other males, he probably wouldn't. His genetic material simply wouldn't be enough to continue his minimal sexual behavior.
Because women cannot reproduce very often, it would be a waste of energy and resources for them to be as promiscuous as men. Instead, it would benefit a women to solicit parental care from the man or small number of men that she had sex with. That is to say, her genes carried by her child are more likely to continue than the genes of a woman who did not solicit parental care from men. And of course, it is still in the interests of men to invest parental care, even though they could impregnate hundreds of women a year.
Male infidelity is easy to explain in these terms. Promiscuous men simply produce more children. Because they reproduce more, their genes are just going to be around a lot. And their children are likely to inherit his promiscuous traits.
How can we explain female infidelity at all then? There are several ways, but one in particular is illustrative. By having multiple sex partners, a woman may cause confusion as to the identity of the father of her child. Think Jerry Springer. Therefore, she is in a position to solicit limited parental investment from each potential father. The advantage seems to be in distributing the risk that her source of support may die or whatever.
  #135  
Old 02-10-08, 12:19 AM
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Re: Men and porn?

There is a theory that women have two objectives......firstly to find a steady guy who will provide for her and her children.......and secondly to find a guy who will provde the best genetic material for her kids.......and these two drvers do not always point at the same guy...... it's called the cuckoo theory.

Big hairy virile macho muscly alpha male to provide the sperm, hard working reliable fathful guy to do the fathery bit.

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