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  #16  
Old 04-17-17, 05:38 PM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

Correction. I wouldn't say it isn't wonderful! DUH!
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Old 04-18-17, 01:07 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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In-to-me-see, intimacy. I would not say sexual intimacy isn't great. I wouldn't say it is wonderful. There's a difference between physical and sexual intimacy, too. But, my point is this: without water, nourishment and air, we die. Without physical/sexual intimacy we can live, no?
Probably you would not object too much if I asked you to spend a month in solitary confinement? It will be taken care of you have water, food and sufficient air. Just no contact with other living beings, no way to distract you, no light as well. At the end of the month you will get out and be alive. So you will have all your needs fulfilled there, right?
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Old 04-18-17, 01:13 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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In-to-me-see, intimacy. I would not say sexual intimacy isn't great. I wouldn't say it is wonderful. There's a difference between physical and sexual intimacy, too. But, my point is this: without water, nourishment and air, we die. Without physical/sexual intimacy we can live, no?
Since nobody will be let in, even physical safety will be offered. So apart from fulfilling your needs you will even have some luxuries granted there. Isn't that great?
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Old 04-18-17, 02:26 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

Yes, sex is biologically a need. It's a matter of survival. It's how humans exist.

Of course there's some nihilistic level at which there's no such thing as a need, but I don't think we need to be concerned with that, do we?

Some people voluntarily give up sex for philosophical reasons. I doubt the validity of those reasons, but I respect that for those individuals it has been a valid or even a necessary choice.

There are also those who just don't want sex because they don't want sex and that's that. Again in my ignorance of their situations I wonder whether they are being honest with themselves, and again I respect their choice because I have no reason not to.

In my opinion, anyone who says they need sex despite others' philosophy and despite others' lack of desire, must be respected simply for being a normal human. I don't believe they have any justifications to make to anyone.
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Old 04-18-17, 03:02 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Probably you would not object too much if I asked you to spend a month in solitary confinement? It will be taken care of you have water, food and sufficient air. Just no contact with other living beings, no way to distract you, no light as well. At the end of the month you will get out and be alive. So you will have all your needs fulfilled there, right?
Hermus, I remember raising that same point with a therapist in treatment, "isn't solitary confinement like the worst torture for people?" In reference to working on recovery even if no one goes with us. She didn't answer. Left me to think.

I wouldn't like to be confined or restricted in any way for any length of time, period. I love to come and go as I please. Love being able to mix with whomever I choose. Have, and enjoy having, the most unreal sex life I never could have imagined.

Not my point. All I'm trying to isolate, to challenge, is this: Is engaging in sexual behavior a must, a true need, a requirement to live a fulfilling life? I don't define this as something that would be easy, or pleasant, or without extreme pain. Not saying that. Also, I'm not saying we must be secluded, that we can't have friends, that we can't exchange hugs, lots of loving hugs, and other types of physical contact with our loved ones and friends. Not saying that at all.

Just this, in its most simplistic form: Is participation in sexual activity something that I must do? Is it absolutely necessary? (Not covering procreation here. If we want civilization to continue through reproduction, is not the issue. We've done a pretty good job populating the globe.)
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Old 04-18-17, 03:20 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

I was torn during early recovery. I liked someone but I wanted to be sober no matter what, and I had just returned home after over a year away. I truly did not know what to do. But, I told myself with all the sincerity and commitment in me, that if I had to stay in my bed for good and never get up and go out and do anything other than to remain right there for the rest of my life, I would. If it meant that to stay sober from my sex and love addiction, my life would be confined to staying in bed, my bed, the bed I sit on now, many years later, I would do it.

Sobriety has made me into someone/something I stopped dreaming of when I was little. I had dreamed of being good, of helping others 24/7-365. Being a leader by example, trying full time to encourage and be supportive to anyone in need. I am not that person, but Hermus, honestly I really am not what I was and I have made enormous strides becoming a loving helpful person, all by simply not doing what I used to do and could not stop doing. It has taken every ounce of strength, of faith, of my mind-reading and listening-to get here. But, I've been trying to show loving-kindness to others, seeking nothing in return, and people have demonstrated their love and appreciation to and for me I longed for all my life.

Last edited by namazu; 04-18-17 at 03:26 AM.. Reason: Please avoid religious discussion (including references to a "higher power") on the open forum.
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Old 04-18-17, 03:36 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Originally Posted by Letching Gray View Post
Hermus, I remember raising that same point with a therapist in treatment, "isn't solitary confinement like the worst torture for people?" In reference to working on recovery even if no one goes with us. She didn't answer. Left me to think.

I wouldn't like to be confined or restricted in any way for any length of time, period. I love to come and go as I please. Love being able to mix with whomever I choose. Have, and enjoy having, the most unreal sex life I never could have imagined.

Not my point. All I'm trying to isolate, to challenge, is this: Is engaging in sexual behavior a must, a true need, a requirement to live a fulfilling life? I don't define this as something that would be easy, or pleasant, or without extreme pain. Not saying that. Also, I'm not saying we must be secluded, that we can't have friends, that we can't exchange hugs, lots of loving hugs, and other types of physical contact with our loved ones and friends. Not saying that at all.

Just this, in its most simplistic form: Is participation in sexual activity something that I must do? Is it absolutely necessary? (Not covering procreation here. If we want civilization to continue through reproduction, is not the issue. We've done a pretty good job populating the globe.)
You seem to think that human needs are only about survival. I would challenge that. Survival and really living to our full human potential are two quite different things. There are human needs that go beyond the absolute basic necessities to survive. If those other needs are not met we will survive in less than a human state and will develop all kinds of neuroses.

I simply don't think that the idea of repressing one's own sexuality is healthy from a mental perspective and a lot of psychologists agree with me.


"Nothing inspires murderous mayhem in human beings more reliably than sexual repression. Denied food, water, or freedom of movement, people will get desperate and some may lash out at what they perceive as the source of their problems, albeit in a weakened state. But if expression of sexuality is thwarted, the human psyche tends to grow twisted into grotesque, enraged perversions of desire."

Article on Psychology Today: Sexual Repression: The Malady that Considers Itself the Remedy

"Many experts who have studied the affects of sexual repression on the human psyche over the years have concluded that repressing human sexuality can cause all kinds of neuroses and health problems."

"But even today, it is widely recognized that repression of sexuality is unhealthy and quite likely to lead to health problems ranging from anxiety and aggression, and on a more serious note, there is also the likelihood that the person might seek inappropriate outlets for their sexual urges."

What Sexual Repression Symptoms Are There?
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  #23  
Old 04-18-17, 03:38 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Originally Posted by Letching Gray View Post
I was torn during early recovery. I liked someone but I wanted to be sober no matter what, and I had just returned home after over a year away. I truly did not know what to do. But, I told myself with all the sincerity and commitment in me, that if I had to stay in my bed for good and never get up and go out and do anything other than to remain right there for the rest of my life, I would. If it meant that to stay sober from my sex and love addiction, my life would be confined to staying in bed, my bed, the bed I sit on now, many years later, I would do it.

Sobriety has made me into someone/something I stopped dreaming of when I was little. I had dreamed of being good, of helping others 24/7-365. Being a leader by example, trying full time to encourage and be supportive to anyone in need. I am not that person, but Hermus, honestly I really am not what I was and I have made enormous strides becoming a loving helpful person, all by simply not doing what I used to do and could not stop doing. It has taken every ounce of strength, of faith, of my mind-reading and listening-to get here. But, I've been trying to show loving-kindness to others, seeking nothing in return, and people have demonstrated their love and appreciation to and for me I longed for all my life.
Well, maybe for you your addiction was caused by a lack of shame. I think for me there always has been a lot of shame and guilt around sex. There has always been this feeling that there was something wrong with me. So the remedy for that is to again view sexual desires as problematic, to try to deny and repress my sexuality as being a part of me? I don't see how that is going to help.

I'm just trying to find a way to deal with me being a sexual human being, like most people, while being abstinent and the only answers I get are: You don't need that. Just act like you don't have any sexual feelings.
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Old 04-18-17, 04:07 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Well, maybe for you your addiction was caused by a lack of shame. I think for me there always has been a lot of shame and guilt around sex. There has always been this feeling that there was something wrong with me. So the remedy for that is to again view sexual desires as problematic, to try to deny and repress my sexuality as being a part of me? I don't see how that is going to help.

I'm just trying to find a way to deal with me being a sexual human being, like most people, while being abstinent and the only answers I get are: You don't need that. Just act like you don't have any sexual feelings.
Hermus, you've hit on one of the things that makes SLAA recovery so difficult. I can't repress my sexuality and withdraw from it at the same time. I have to feel my drives in full force and not act out on them to withdraw from their power to get well. I can't ignore them or exercise them away or drink or sleep or eat them away, or push them down or try to bury them. Not if I want to recover. And, most of us can refrain from certain behaviors for a stretch. Some longer than others. We can use all kinds of tools to get through a patch.

But, that isn't recovery. And shame? Hermus, that's what the Steps are for, to make right what I can, to admit my shameful behavior, my whole life. Having had an awakening as the result of these steps, we help others. It is not about suppressing. It is about facing them, ourselves with everything we are, head on, and allowing ourselves to be emptied of our sicknesses and filled back up with health.

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Old 04-18-17, 04:10 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Hermus, you've hit on one of the things that makes SLAA recovery so difficult. I can't repress my sexuality and withdraw from it at the same time. I have to feel my drives in full force and not act out on them to withdraw from their power to get well. I can't ignore them or exercise them away or drink or sleep or eat them away, or push them down or try to bury them. Not if I want to recover. And, most of us can refrain from certain behaviors for a stretch. Some longer than others. We can use all kinds of tools to get through a patch.
Now we're getting somewhere. So what do you do with them, once they're there? Once you feel them in full force?
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Old 04-18-17, 05:40 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

Decided to flip the switch and accept that my sexual feelings are wrong. Always have felt that anyway. If I'm going to keep insisting having those feelings is healthy, and then acting on them is wrong, there is a cognitive dissonance. If I accept they are wrong, then at least it makes sense that acting on them is wrong. So it's going to make prolonged abstinence a lot easier. I then can just decide to meditate or write to make those feelings go away when they arise.
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Old 04-18-17, 07:26 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Now we're getting somewhere. So what do you do with them, once they're there? Once you feel them in full force?
Like the craving for alcohol or drugs, I talk about it. I recognize it for what it is. Call someone. Hit a meeting. I live with it. Apply the steps. Cravings pass. Each time a craving hits, and I don't run from it or act on it, it loosens its grip on me. A craving isn't wrong. It just is. A desire isn't necessarily good or bad. It is a desire.

Sexual feelings aren't wrong. They are feelings, urges, desires. The choices I make regarding what to do with them can be positive or negative.
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Old 04-18-17, 07:41 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Probably you would not object too much if I asked you to spend a month in solitary confinement? It will be taken care of you have water, food and sufficient air. Just no contact with other living beings, no way to distract you, no light as well. At the end of the month you will get out and be alive. So you will have all your needs fulfilled there, right?
On this one point I think its fair to say that because solitary is punishment, that is a difference. I dont think you should look at your recovery as punishment.
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Old 04-18-17, 08:19 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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Originally Posted by Letching Gray View Post
Like the craving for alcohol or drugs, I talk about it. I recognize it for what it is. Call someone. Hit a meeting. I live with it. Apply the steps. Cravings pass. Each time a craving hits, and I don't run from it or act on it, it loosens its grip on me. A craving isn't wrong. It just is. A desire isn't necessarily good or bad. It is a desire.

Sexual feelings aren't wrong. They are feelings, urges, desires. The choices I make regarding what to do with them can be positive or negative.
It is just a difficult place I'm in. I crave for sex and romance so much. And I can't act on those cravings. Every time I interact with someone who is attractive and nice it will keep haunting me. Even after four months sober it isn't getting any better and it makes me frustrated and self-pitying. If those sexual feelings would just vanish I would be much better off.
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Old 04-18-17, 08:21 AM
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Re: Sex and love addiction part 2

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On this one point I think its fair to say that because solitary is punishment, that is a difference. I dont think you should look at your recovery as punishment.
Not being able to engage in sex and relationships, having to ignore those feelings, it does feel like a punishment to be honest. I just don't know what to do. With the alcohol after a few months of sobriety the cravings diminished. In my SLA they don't. And that makes me think that things will never change.
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