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  #106  
Old 08-03-18, 11:38 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
You're describing the need to handle information.

That is what I've been trying to suggest that ADDers need.

Information -> enters brain
Requirement - handle information
Requires - learning (Development of capacity to handle information)
Please explain HOW we can develop this information handling capacity/ability.

Please explain how I can develop my eyes to work properly in tandem and to
see at a distance as well as they do up close.
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  #107  
Old 08-04-18, 12:59 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

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Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
Please explain HOW we can develop this information handling capacity/ability.

Please explain how I can develop my eyes to work properly in tandem and to
see at a distance as well as they do up close.

That's the essence of ADHD - it's our reward system.


We don't receive reward from standard competition ie education / work which're all about the competition with others for money/power and want to do work to benefit ourselves and society.


We naturally access this reward system in the absence of the other reward system ie we are rewarded by non-competitive pursuits in the absence of requirement to compete.
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  #108  
Old 08-04-18, 01:05 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

I've described this on another thread.
I look in more than out.
So - am not really looking at the territory but the map.

Human beings don't look at the territory they look at a model of the territory.

Everything you see is akin to a TV or a reconstruction.

Animals/Children/Adults 'believe' that what they see is the territory.

But it can't be - it's like a TV screen - it's a fabrication in which the nerve recognises reconstitutes an image based on signals produced in the external environment.

Perhaps man's eyesight is customised to looking in, at the TV screen rather than looking out at the illusion.

I don't know - the argument I've used up until now is that poor eyesight arises as a consequence of inadequate light exposure through need to be inside and bulk upload trivial nonsense conveyed at school.


-*-


The reason why much of this presentation is not being greeted appropriately is that people *know* but do not want to see that reality is an illusion.


It's challenging to see reality as an evolutionary illusion because everything that you considered important - your Mercedes, gold and having a new suit - become WHOLLY UNIMPORTANT.


And what becomes important.


There is only 1 AXIOM in reality - evolution.
An exponential increase in Universal information content to a rule (self-assembly) described in the Theory of Everything.
The goal is therefore to see 'its' will be done by working out how ??? human beings can increase Universal informaiton content.
This occurs through seeing that human beings have recently fielded a novel micro-circuit within the neocortex and perhaps elsewhere which permits human beings to recognise more information in sensory streams.
This is ADDer sensitivity and relates to the sensitivities which provide the basis to the psychiatric disorder spectrum.
SEN-EMP-SYS information sensitivity.


All that's required is a psychosocial environment which is compatible with the individual developing this novel character.


That arises through individuals being free to choose their own activities which activate their own higher mind.


I can go through EVERY aspect of academia if you like and prove that it's ALL nonsense.


You don't generate society until you can define what generates an optimal human being.


Current society is based on selecting for 'greed' ie selecting for the individual who can compete best.
With a proper understanding of reality - we can see that the goal is not personal greed but personal quality/collective quality.


Simply remove society's maintenance of systems which enforce power of man over man (hierarchy) - and instead of reward reinforcing greed - reward reinforcement of quality will occur.


In precise answer to your question.
Simply remove society's maintenance of systems which enforce power of man over man (hierarchy) - and instead of reward reinforcing greed - reward reinforcement of quality will occur.




In precise answer to your question of your eyes waggling in opposite directions ?
I have no idea - mine don't.
I may not see anything 'outside' because I'm looking 'inside' but my eyes (not that I'd know) don't waggle asynchronously.
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  #109  
Old 08-04-18, 10:53 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

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Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
That's the essence of ADHD - it's our reward system.


We don't receive reward from standard competition ie education / work which're all about the competition with others for money/power and want to do work to benefit ourselves and society.


We naturally access this reward system in the absence of the other reward system ie we are rewarded by non-competitive pursuits in the absence of requirement to compete.

Not all work/jobs are about competetition, money, power.


For the last 13 years I worked only part time, cleaning lady in a salon.

I was the only cleaning lady. No competition.

I made only enough to pay for my car insurance and tags, and my generic meds.

I did it because I had a work ethic, and it felt good to me to be dependable.

It felt even better when the boss would give me a compliment. Reward enough.



Gotta say, it didn't change my ADHD symptoms in the least.
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  #110  
Old 08-05-18, 04:05 PM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

What frustrates me about this topic of adult onset AD(H)D, is that I do not find many people interested, in discussing how self regulation normally develops in early life, and possible factors and reasons for the emergence early onset of AD(H)D by the age of 4-7*.

If I am wrong, could someone post some thread links, with discussions focusing on the early childhood onset of AD(H)D, before the age of 4-7*, from a neurodevelopmental perspective?

I have started some threads in the past, but I do not find many people interested.

I would like to know what I am doing wrong, so I can improve my approach to such discussions, in the future.

I would like to participate in such thread discussions, about early onset AD(H)D, then maybe I would understand members perspectives this thread discussion better?





M
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  #111  
Old 08-06-18, 04:10 PM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

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Your child is of "compulsory school age" on the 1st January, 1st April or 1st September following their 5th birthday

Is this your point ?
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  #112  
Old 08-06-18, 04:14 PM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...013.00691/full


So growing out of adhd then becomes the consequence of leaving school..what is hard about school ... nothing .. it is just dull, trivial, pointless.
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  #113  
Old 08-07-18, 07:33 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
What frustrates me about this topic of adult onset AD(H)D, is that I do not find many people interested, in discussing how self regulation normally develops in early life, and possible factors and reasons for the emergence early onset of AD(H)D by the age of 4-7*.
I think ADHD begins at conception. It typically doesn't get diagnosed until age 4 or later because it's nearly impossible to diagnose a baby/toddler. But the genetics are there since conception.
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  #114  
Old 08-07-18, 11:07 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

CharlesH
Yes - the sensitivity is in-built.
Peripheral
Yes - the disorder arises when the sensitivity is adversely challenged at school.

Until there's some realization that there are 2 components to ADHD - we won't be able to get any where.

You are both right.

We could tell our kids had it from day 1 - but it wasn't until school that the established developmental delay kicked in and the kids did VERY poorly indeed. We had to remove them from one school and put them into a smaller tight-knit school in order to preserve their sanity.

-*-

It's really simple.

SENSITIVITY
does not lead to
DISTRESS
without an
ADVERSE ENVIRONMENT
which is defined the nature of the sensitivity.

If you're the Princess of the 'Princess and the Pea' fame - then being permitted to sleep only on mattresses with peas underneath will result in pain to her and her alone.

Question ? What are ADDers sensitive to ?
Simply - list all neocortical informational flows - and these are the informational streams which ADDers are engulfed in - and can not pay attention to anything other than handling these informational streams.

So - imagine trying to pay attention with a random person tapping you on the back.

We need a place of complete solitude to work from - otherwise we're distracted by neocortical sensitivity.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/neocortex.htm
Quote:
It is involved in higher functions such as sensory perception, generation of motor commands, spatial reasoning, conscious thought, and in humans, language.
sensory perception <- as described immersion in a flood of sensory data
generation of motor commands <- as described clear connection between 'learning disrders' and balance
spatial reasoning <- as described personally, mechanism as described for memory (ie it's not memory unless it's incorporated) and eg from Babs of the Sahakia https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15180779
conscious thought <- 'Systematizing' from the Sen-Emp-Sys description
language <- 'Empathizing' from the Sen-Emp-Sys description

-*-

Summarising
We take longer to learn (how to handle information) better.

But how can you tell whether we take longer to learn no better ?
As far as I can see - the pattern is given away in observation.

We're observing the emergence of ADHD in all countries of the world.
Evolution has a pattern.
This is an exponential increase in Universal informational content.

The brain is an information recognition unit.

We should be looking for a change in the brain which results in having the capacity to handle an exponential increase in information- to subscribe to the rule of evolution as an exponential information series in the manifest Universe.

What would it feel like to field the multiple lines of information simultaneously.

A mind which changes from a serial informational train (cf molecular expertise) to a parallel informational train (cf System expertise).

To be unable to generate a Molecular expertise until the Systems level view is formed.

Wouldn't it make sense in a world of finite resources to use those resources intelligently ?

If we generate serial minds fixed on 'speciality' - then their own mind won't be able to constrain the associated individual and the individual will waste time, money, resources trying to answer a question which does not exist.

Medicine - as of recently - really does seem to believe in the broken gene - broken protein - make it work with some antibody which'll break it some more ... ... ...

It's all nonsense.

Cambridge pioneered antibody based therapies (the top selling drug) and tops the world in its genome sequencing facilities.

But - you don't need any of that.

You simply need to work out why people are driven to epidemiologically provably adverse lifestyles - and when you do - you'll find that it's all described by epidemiologists Marmot and Wilkinson.

In that human beings are not desire to form into a hierarchical (power) structure but muse exist in a flat structure - so your level of sensitivity (desire to learn) be it ADDer or NonADDer can be satisfied.

As of 40,000 years ago - human beings ceased to be animals and lived for information.
That transition has shifted in ADDer - where not only are we information (learning/creativity - centred) but we have no reward system for materialism - reward system which nonADD can derive satisfaction from.
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  #115  
Old 08-07-18, 11:17 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

Adult onset ADHD

would occur if sensitivity did not encounter an insensitive environment (to its sensitivity) until adulthood.

Or medical defn ADHD would not appear over basic science defn ADHD unless ADDer immersed in an adverse environment.
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  #116  
Old 08-07-18, 12:20 PM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

I see - basic science (L,C,G) vs medical science (M,K,S) battles for supremacy.

Actual basis vs basis to disorder.

Both are of use - but need to work together.
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  #117  
Old 08-09-18, 09:13 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

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Originally Posted by SB_UK View Post
Yes - the disorder arises when the sensitivity is adversely challenged at school.
The disorder can be diagnosed before school.
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  #118  
Old 08-09-18, 09:21 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

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Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post
The disorder can be diagnosed before school.
Yes - once again environmental context dependent.

if (as we're required) we need to discard kids after birth into an unpleasant nursery in which minimum wag workers kick your kids around - and certain kids (for bullying begins early) bully yours - then disorder will kick in.

Disorder can be diagnosed before 5 and increased 'sensitivity' can also.
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  #119  
Old 08-09-18, 10:50 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

Moderator note:

This thread is about (the possibility of) ADULT-ONSET ADHD.

Off-topic posts may be removed.

Please be respectful of the OP and do not derail or hijack threads.
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  #120  
Old 08-10-18, 01:07 AM
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Re: Adult onset adhd

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Originally Posted by namazu View Post
Moderator note:

This thread is about (the possibility of) ADULT-ONSET ADHD.

Off-topic posts may be removed.

Please be respectful of the OP and do not derail or hijack threads.

Basic science defn ADHD - arises at birth (Doors of Perception open)
See Charles.



Medical defn ADHD - arises upon chronic distress exposure most likely to information overload - at the level of ADDer sensitivity ie at any of the levels associated with the neocortex.
See Peripheral's idea of most often observed at 4-7 yrs - in the UK the teacher is key in filling out a diagnostic questionnaire - and so it's likely that school is where the distress and the disorder will be identified.


If not primary school - then ADDer delay may emerge at secondary school, at higher education level or when the ADDer is expected to learn something that ADDer is not interested in.


Personally - the hardest aspect of life I find is having to learn and apply a system which does not make sense; how do you remember something that doesn't make sense - forced into working memory - which fails as described - we've eliminated working for 'true' memory (cf learning to ride a bike) -- need to write everything down and have sophisticated alerts.


-*-


So - why would an ADDer have a problem with ANY system that does not make sense ?
Completely driven mad by ANY system which does not make sense ?


It can only be because the ADDer if SENSE-adapted.


What does that mean ? To pop information into our mind - it needs to conform to a structure of understanding (the structure of mind formed at wisddom) - and if it doesn't it can't be remembered.


In the school environment - you're simply meant to bulk upload data without questioning.
In the workplace for the most part - you're simply meant to bulk upload SOPs and apply without questioning.



Step through ALL data which is conveyed at school without any deeper sense/understanding - at least conveyed - without any means of relating data to sense - and we will fail.
Why are we bothering.


'This says nothing to me and my life' & 'Belligerent ghouls run schools' ... ... from The Smiths and we're there.


-*-


Industrial Age
Learning (industrial age defn) where education's current model originated - for docility to hierarchy.

Information age
Learning - to become intrinsically better in some aspect of life which associates with functions ascribed to the neocortex.


sensory - cerebellar - motor information handling - an area which ADDers have jumped up to the next level in.
ADDers take longer to learn better.
Need a bespoke learning system which is self-directed.


Don't force ADDers to bulk upload data with no sense attached; ADDers need the right (without loss of earnings) to tell people when the systems they're applying are nonsense.
The entire system of money and law are nonsense - a mistake of the industrial age - the material world can not be handed to a minority - and the majority marginalized thanks to the bankers and lawyers, the police and the army of the rich, psychopathic, hierarchical and stupid (noting morality is the measure of intelligence).



What is school & University ?

In 11 seconds and a bit more - maybe a minute if you can manage it.
6.33 - 6.44

https://www.ted.com/talk /ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms
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