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Desoxyn methamphetamine hydrochloride (also known as desoxyephedrine)

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  #46  
Old 11-28-11, 03:00 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by cattail View Post
I find it really interesting how much individual variation there is to different meds. I take Adderall ir and don't feel any "kick" to it. At first I did but after a month or so I don't notice a difference between on and off meds, unless I am doing something that requires a lot of focus. The only time I am aware is if I start the day with 20 instead of 10 mg. I don't like it at all! I like it to ease in and out without notice. Dex makes me a twitchy miserable mess! I m glad you are finding success with a new med nd thanks for sharing. I'm interested to know how your response compares to others.

I am a bit confused though. Adderall is also methamphetamines. How are they different?
Adderall is a mix of four amphetamine salts, and is roughly 3/4 Dextroamphetamine and 1/4 Levoamphetamine.

L-amp stimulates primarily the PNS, with slight CNS stimulation.
D-amp stimulates primarily the CNS, with slight PNS stimulation.

PNS stimulation causes anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edginess.
CNS stimulation improves concentration, organizes racing thoughts, and gives you a feeling of calmness and clarity


Unlike Adderall, Dexedrine is pure d-amp.

Desoxyn is dextromethamphetamine. No levomethamphetamine. An added methyl group attached d-amp results in d-meth, which passes through the blood brain barrier more quickly and efficiently. This results in high amounts of CNS stimulation, with barely discernible PNS stimulation at therapeutic doses.

Basically, d-meth causes CNS stimulation... period.

Therefore...
Desoxyn (d-meth) is the least likely stimulant to cause anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edigness.

It is also the most likely to dramatically improve concentration, organize racing thoughts, and give you a feeling of calmness and clarity.

Does that sound like a "last resort" kind of med to you?
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  #47  
Old 11-28-11, 09:03 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Some confusion over Adderall's composition comes from the fact that its formulation DID change at some point between 1970 (when it was marketed as Obetrol) and 1995 (when the name was changed to Adderall).

Originally, the -saccharate and -aspartate salts were methamphetamine saccharate and methamphetamine hydrochloride.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the reformulation occurred sometime during the 1980s, and occurred independently of its name change and official approval for ADD.
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  #48  
Old 11-28-11, 09:38 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
Desoxyn has more fluid concentration. Desoxyn is like a shot of clarity to the brain. Dexedrine is a huge dose of selective motivation and concentration.

Dexedrine = Energy, tunnel vision, and some side-effects.

Desoxyn = Nothing more or less than symptom control. Gentle and effective relief.

It's a bit like switching from laxatives to a better diet with plenty of fiber. It takes awhile for your body to adjust, but it is a healthier choice.
Could you explain "fluid concentration" more? More examples about "fluid concentration"?
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  #49  
Old 11-28-11, 11:48 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by Jason954 View Post
Some confusion over Adderall's composition comes from the fact that its formulation DID change at some point between 1970 (when it was marketed as Obetrol) and 1995 (when the name was changed to Adderall).

Originally, the -saccharate and -aspartate salts were methamphetamine saccharate and methamphetamine hydrochloride.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the reformulation occurred sometime during the 1980s, and occurred independently of its name change and official approval for ADD.
Correct. They changed it in the 80s because meth was gaining a stigma. It was being clandestinely manufactured and IV methedrine use wreaked havoc on the hippie scene.
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Old 11-28-11, 02:02 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Thank you so much for all of the information that you've put out here. I've been reading up on this drug, and I think it may be worth trying.

One thing I'm a bit confused with is the pricing, because you have discussed how expensive it is. I went on my insurance account and looked up desoxyn 5mg. I input a month supply of 5 pills per day (just because you say you're taking 25 mg, so I assume 5 pills) and they said with coverage it's $45 dollars. The generic methamphetamine hydrochloride is $10. Is this possible?
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  #51  
Old 11-28-11, 02:18 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by rivered314 View Post
Thank you so much for all of the information that you've put out here. I've been reading up on this drug, and I think it may be worth trying.

One thing I'm a bit confused with is the pricing, because you have discussed how expensive it is. I went on my insurance account and looked up desoxyn 5mg. I input a month supply of 5 pills per day (just because you say you're taking 25 mg, so I assume 5 pills) and they said with coverage it's $45 dollars. The generic methamphetamine hydrochloride is $10. Is this possible?
I do not have insurance. I just called Lundbeck and found out that they don't offer assistance for their controlled substances. : (

Any advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.
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  #52  
Old 11-28-11, 03:03 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by babidi View Post
Could you explain "fluid concentration" more? More examples about "fluid concentration"?
It doesn't force your focus onto one thing like Adderall does. It doesn't exacerbate hyper focus. You have the choice to focus on this or that, and switch tasks as needed.
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  #53  
Old 11-28-11, 03:04 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
Well, I've come to the end of day four on Desoxyn.

I'm quickly coming to regard Desoxyn as ADHD's best kept secret... but the transition is proving to be bittersweet. Desoxyn is a better choice for me, yet a part of me is mourning the loss of Dexedrine and Adderall (though I still have about 80 Dexedrine tablets stowed away).

Dexedrine and Adderall seem to do all the work for me... at a price. I take one and everything seems to come so much easier. Desoxyn is not like this. It gives me the ability to motivate myself, but I definitely have a choice in the matter. This is both refreshing and frustrating for a number of reasons. It is nice to have control again, but there it is a bit unsettling to take the reigns after such a long time of letting the meds steer for me.

I won't be missing that edgy feeling though. I'm reconnecting with a part of myself that was missing on the other meds and I'm not sure how I feel about it. Desoxyn is forcing me to stop and smell the roses, but all that time on Dexedrine and Adderall makes me feel like I should be doing something more productive.

I still have to find the best dosing schedule to get me through the day.

Desoxyn is a very ironic medication. This notorious and "dangerous" medication is, surprisingly, so much easier on the brain and body. I really do think most of the members here would be disappointed by it, but only because most of us have been on more motivating meds.
Thanks for your honesty in this journey/journal of yours! I'm sure this will help many.
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  #54  
Old 11-28-11, 03:25 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

moderator note:

this thread needs to get back on topic and stay on topic. if members have problems with one another there are four options:

1. put the other person on "ignore" (go to user control panel and edit ignore list);

2. take it off this thread and settle your quarrels through private messaging;

3. get over it/remove self from thread if you can't bicker about/attack others;

4. violate the etiquette guidelines by bickering and/or attacking/flaming other members (ok to disagree with others' positions, not ok to insult or attack other *persons*) and receive an infraction for it.

here is a link to the etiquette guidelines: http://www.addforums.com/forums/anno....php?f=75&a=90

here is the original post and topic of this thread:

Quote:
Well, I just took my first dose. I'm starting low because I'm inexperienced with Desoxyn. My GP gave me the script because I couldn't get in to see my p-doc. He knew what it was and had no problem prescribing it to me. It probably helped that I brought in information and am very knowledgable.
This stuff comes in a sealed bottle. The pharmacist wrote "METH" on the lid with a sharpie. Too funny!

I will let you guys know what I think. I'm a bit irritated because the Dexedrine was working well, but hopefully this will be satisfactory.

The pharmacy actually had it in stock! It seems the shortages have resulted in numerous patients exploring other options. If this truly is all that and a bag of chips, I will stick with it. However, it is far more expensive than the Dexedrine, so I will be switching back at soonest available opportunity if I'm not terribly impressed.

I had the doctor prescribe 100 tablets, enough for 25mg a day (15 less than my daily Dexedrine dosage) but the doctor said I could play with the dose if it wasn't strong enough. I will be taking 15mg in the morning and 10mg in the evening. I am hoping the longer duration will mean I will only have to dose twice a day.

I will post an update shortly.
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  #55  
Old 11-28-11, 04:16 PM
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Re: Switching to Desoxyn

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Originally Posted by Chace90 View Post
Alright, you are supposed to try to get the most euphoric stimulant, your meds are not supposed to make you feel like crap. Amphetamines are used in treatment resistant cases of depression.
I dont know about anyone else but if I take Amphetamines on a depressing day it only makes the depression more blown out of proportion. Anyone whos got the slightest bit of Real knowledge on meth use pharmacutical grade or bathtub will tell you it will make your issues worse. I have been on ADD meds longer than this topic starter. If you Really think Desoxyn is for depression for those who are resistant to other meds you Are way off. Have you heard of depletion of sert. Or dopm. ?!

Last edited by BR549; 11-28-11 at 09:07 PM.. Reason: étiquette / continuity
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  #56  
Old 11-28-11, 06:44 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Thank you peripatetic!

I've had much better luck today with a three dose schedule. I think I will be taking 10mg 3x per day.

I have a feeling I will come to be grateful for Dexedrine shortages.

Ah, unanswered prayers. Thank God for em.
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Old 11-28-11, 11:11 PM
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Re: Switching to Desoxyn

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnareDrumzZz View Post
I dont know about anyone else but if I take Amphetamines on a depressing day it only makes the depression more blown out of proportion. Anyone whos got the slightest bit of Real knowledge on meth use pharmacutical grade or bathtub will tell you it will make your issues worse. I have been on ADD meds longer than this topic starter. If you Really think Desoxyn is for depression for those who are resistant to other meds you Are way off. Have you heard of depletion of sert. Or dopm. ?!
Have you heard of magnesium? Memantadine? B vitamins? 5-HTP? L-Tyrosine? Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors? Healthy dietary choices? Exercise?

I don't recall ever saying that I was so depressed that I needed a more potent stimulant to escape my problems by getting high.

It is vital that stimulant users are well informed, self-aware, and responsible. This forum provides ample evidence of individuals taking an active role in their treatment, and gathering helpful knowledge. We discuss our experiences, offer credible support for our ideas, and learn from one another. That is why these forums were created.

If your medication is making things worse for you, you might want to reach out to some of the people on these forums and utilize their knowledge and experiences.

I switched to Desoxyn because the widely publicized Dexedrine and Adderall shortages left me no other choice. I am glad I made the switch. My body is thanking me.

Perhaps you have not been impacted by the shortages. If that is the case, I sincerely hope you will not be. Those of us who have are reaching out to one another on these forums to find alternatives. I hope that my experiences will prove helpful to those in similarly problematic situations.

I have provided a great deal of evidence to support my assertions on this thread. If you feel that I have overlooked evidence that suggests Desoxyn is a universally harmful substance, without redeeming benefits, please make such evidence available here. Black and white statements are rarely credible. Desoxyn is neither good nor bad. It can be a very helpful tool, or a dangerous weapon of self-destruction. Sometimes it just isn't much of a fit either way. It is up to the individual user to make the best of their medication.

I wish you the best of luck in your ongoing treatment, and I hope you will extend the same encouragement to those here who are less experienced than yourself. : )
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  #58  
Old 11-28-11, 11:56 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
Adderall is a mix of four amphetamine salts, and is roughly 3/4 Dextroamphetamine and 1/4 Levoamphetamine.

L-amp stimulates primarily the PNS, with slight CNS stimulation.
D-amp stimulates primarily the CNS, with slight PNS stimulation.

PNS stimulation causes anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edginess.
CNS stimulation improves concentration, organizes racing thoughts, and gives you a feeling of calmness and clarity


Unlike Adderall, Dexedrine is pure d-amp.

Desoxyn is dextromethamphetamine. No levomethamphetamine. An added methyl group attached d-amp results in d-meth, which passes through the blood brain barrier more quickly and efficiently. This results in high amounts of CNS stimulation, with barely discernible PNS stimulation at therapeutic doses.

Basically, d-meth causes CNS stimulation... period.

Therefore...
Desoxyn (d-meth) is the least likely stimulant to cause anxiety, irritability, hyper focus, and edigness.

It is also the most likely to dramatically improve concentration, organize racing thoughts, and give you a feeling of calmness and clarity.

Does that sound like a "last resort" kind of med to you?
I would add that Desoxyn also releases higher amounts of Serotonin than d-amp alone, which can be good or bad depending on your natural chemistry.

It seems that the majority of people find that Desoxyn is a remarkably smooth medication. It does it's job with little fuss. This is because Desoxyn is highly dopaminergic, slightly serotogenic, yet relatively indifferent to norepinephrine.

If attention problems are linked primarily to dopamine, it seems that the most dopamine specific medication, free of unwanted PNS stimulation, would be the most widely beneficial and tolerable treatment for ADHD.

So why is it not? Why should we let a few bad apples ruin bunch?

Do my expiences with Desoxyn surprise anyone? Has anyone had a different response? I'm interested in seeing how common my experience is.
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Old 11-29-11, 01:19 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Hey Scotty, I can't wait to be caught up enough with work & life stuff so that i can fully read your posts since u started your journey with deso...please confirm, u started Wed., 11/23, correct?

desoxyn is one of the first adhd meds i was told about in great length by an older coworker/friend who took this medication 15-20 years ago, but for reasons unknown to me, no longer takes it...i do not understand why i have not read anything about this drug much, if at all, on this or other sites, when i heard such good things about it?

so a few days later i was diagnosed and started my first course of adhd meds ever, the adderall ir...i was told to expect this in the event of add/adhd diagnosis.

***insight welcome, please***....i have been about at the end of my rope in general the last week or so.

Keeping in mind i am only 3 months in, (8/29/11 first dose date), i have been on a roller coaster with dose and meds, the dose part was to be expected, the med part, NOT expected, due to the shortage and the havoc it's wreaked on me as well as many many others.

My prescribing psych nurse has brought up vyvanse on occasion, and the research i have done has me extremely wary, speaking for me of course, and i don't think i can commit to that type of medication. In fact i actually do not prefer to be on an XR in general. I feel a lack of control and "say" that I am not comfortable with.

I have been taking adderall consistently, that much is solid; IR, XR, and all 3 of the generics....i am now for the first time taking Barr 20 mg IR as my afternoon booster. I take 40 mg Adderall XR name brand...i took the barr Dex 5 mg IR for a month when adderall IR was not an option.

Today was day 4 of the Barr IR, and i am experiencing side effects that I am not happy with. I am taking 20 mg in the afternoon, no more or less. Maybe tomorrow i will split a 20 and just take 10, though i don't know how sensible that is when the focus is there, the productivity i need is there, but the side effects are as well. Reduce dosage, reduce desired results.

I can't win with adderall!!! Or at least this is how i feel today, 4 minutes from my 90 day Adderall-anniversary...I was struggling with some anxiety and a bluesy feeling yesterday and this morning that thankfully was short lived....i have nothing to attribute it to other than the new adderall...I take my anti-d (Celexa, 40 mg) as i have since June 2009.

I am a pretty intense girl naturally, high energy, high metabolism, mild neurotic tendencies, noticing more OCD type tendencies the longer i am taking adderall? Coincedence?

Is it possible adderall just isn't for me? I am so confused right now i don't know if i am coming or going with adderall. I do know that i want to continue, i just do not know how to best determine the way for me to do that...the XR is my main course, but it's proven to be inconsistent in the almost 2 months i am on it, and certainly falls short in coverage since i have needed an IR booster most afternoons.

i need to make changes. I have not been happy with my prescribing psych nurse or therapist, and after careful consideration, i have appt with my new psy doc/med manager on 12/5. i was referred to him by a trusted source and was impressed with his profile, seasoned, over 25 years in the biz....

Sorry this is so long. I have to get it out now or i will feel unsettled before i go to bed, and since I have been a bit more obsessive/compulsive lately, what i don't say here will have to be journaled in my notebook, and i am just too tired to hand write : (

I know i can't say too much to my new doc, i will only tell him where i was, where i am now, and where i hope to be in the near future....i hope i like him, can anyone offer any suggestions as to how i might want to get off to a good and assertive/positive/productive start with my new seasoned male Psych doc? help help help....

thank u if u read this far...though i fear nobody will....lost.
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Old 11-29-11, 02:12 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Danni926,

I think Adderall is a wonderful medication for those who can tolerate it long term. I could not. I would still be on that Sandoz IR if it weren't for increasing anxiety and muscle pain.

You should really think about cutting out the l-amp. Look into Dexedrine. I realize that this is a Desoxyn thread, but I'm not going to recommend that you ask a brand new doctor about Desoxyn.

Just explain to him that you are experiencing unwanted PNS stimulation and that your research indicates that the l-amp in Adderall may be responsible. If he wants you to try Vyvanse, and is insistent, I would give it a try. I know, Shire is criminal. However, you may respond to Vyvanse, and if you do not you will have earned the right to request Dexedrine.

Regardless, if you bring in quality information you will be successful. A decent doctor won't argue with facts.
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