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  #181  
Old 12-30-17, 09:35 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

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Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post


Flirting does not, and never has, included grabbing a woman's body parts,
exposing one's own body parts to a woman,
or making inappropriate suggestions to a woman.

Those things are assault or harassment.
I've never done any of these things. I'm invisible to the female eye though. Perhaps I should make it work in my favour?
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  #182  
Old 09-07-18, 08:34 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

Honestly, you are allowed to "think" about whatever you f---ing well please, but when you interact with other human beings you have to be considerate and think of their happiness.

I think looking at women has its place. If I'm in a needy mood, I try not to engage in that because it will definitely go over the line into creepy.

Women are beautiful, and I love to look at them and talk to them. Flirting is fun, and has its place. I try to be respectful, especially, of other people's relationships and comfort.

It's all about being self-aware, as well as aware of how you are making the other person feel. No one is expecting men to be perfect, or non-sexual, but if you step over the line then be aware enough to stop yourself.

The internet is pretty insidious too, especially if you have a hard time self-regulating. If that's the case, probably stay off the internet at 2 am. lol

D.
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  #183  
Old 09-07-18, 08:36 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

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Originally Posted by acdc01 View Post
I think you guys need to get off online dating. Its warping your minds. There's been like 3 posts from different guys that I've read today which all generalize women. This reads as pure sexism to many if not most women.

Once warped you'll become toxic. And women will pick up on this toxicity even if you try to hide it. And they will rightfully not want to date you. It's not them being mean to you. It's you being mean to women even if you don't mean to be. All you guys generalizing like this are only spreading hate of women.
Yes, online dating commodifies sex and relationships, and it also interrupts the flow of real life. It can't replace real interaction.
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  #184  
Old 09-22-18, 06:22 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

I think we as women hear this type of thing a lot. Like I have heard men say " you cant do anything or look at a woman or even talk to her without getting accused of something". A good man knows this isnt the case.
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  #185  
Old 09-22-18, 06:35 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

Interesting comment, Sarah, and I'd love for you to elaborate on that a bit. I agree, but it's not as easy as that for men.

For example, I was going to post a thread about "looking at women", because I think it's something that a lot of men struggle with, at least the ones who give a damn about how women feel.

The question I have is, I do great in situations where my life takes me into a natural interaction with a woman. We're standing in line in a grocery store, we meet at work, I'm buying coffee, whatever. I make a witty comment, notice that she approves, and we're off into nice banter.

The problem I run into is, what if you're just walking around a grocery store, or walking your dog, or driving, or whatever, and you see an attractive woman, and you just take a look? A lot of times you get that "bugger off" look, straight stare ahead, or dismissive turn of the head.

In that case, I'm having a hard time parsing whether this is because 1) I'm getting older (47) and maybe less attractive, 2) #metoo and changing dynamics between men and women have made the act of looking unacceptable where before it was more welcome, or 3) I'm doing it the wrong way. Or some combination. Or am I just becoming more sensitive and aware of how I'm making women react or feel, where before I was just clueless and insensitive? Or, has the world become so dangerous, and many men's behavior so appalling, and the ubiquitous reporting of it on the news and social media so prevalent, that women just don't feel safe anywhere anymore?

Is there a right and wrong way to do this? A way that is flattering, unobtrusive, and respectful? And yes, even a little sexy? I don't think the answer is putting on blinders and gritting your teeth and pretending women aren't there until you get home with your groceries. At least I hope not, because I think that's denying part of the natural instincts or nature of men.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

D.
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Last edited by DanielGM1970; 09-22-18 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: typo and clarification
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  #186  
Old 09-22-18, 07:02 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

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Originally Posted by DanielGM1970 View Post
Interesting comment, Sarah, and I'd love for you to elaborate on that a bit. I agree, but it's not as easy as that for men.
I would agree that its murky waters for men for sure. But that is seriously only murky for the good guys if you ask me. The fact that you are even asking shows me that you do not have the predator mentality. Ever hear about those "mens rights groups'?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement
Those types are more what I am talking about. And the scary thing is just like racism they are often hidden or men might feel all those things in secret unbeknownst to women.

Quote:
The question I have is, I do great in situations where my life takes me into a natural interaction with a woman. We're standing in line in a grocery store, we meet at work, I'm buying coffee, whatever. I make a witty comment, notice that she approves, and we're off into nice banter.
I feel this way and that is because I am friendly to the entire world. I make small talk everywhere I go, I prefer learning people's names to address them and I am sure that I have probably made myself a target of men because I do not realize that being friendly could be mixed signals. I always hope that my wedding band is a magic shield.

Quote:
The problem I run into is, what if you're just walking around a grocery store, or walking your dog, or driving, or whatever, and you see an attractive woman, and you just take a look? A lot of times you get that "bugger off" look or dismissive turn of the head.
It depends on the type of look, your body language and your respect for women's personal space and the way we would take your small talk.
There is a big difference in noticing a cute woman in the produce aisle and following her around the store so you can stare at her as*.

Quote:
In that case, I'm having a hard time parsing whether this is because 1) I'm getting older (47) and maybe less attractive, 2) #metoo and changing dynamics between men and women have made the act of looking unacceptable where before it was more welcome, or 3) I'm doing it the wrong way. Or some combination. Or am I just becoming more sensitive and aware of how I'm making women react or feel, where before I was just clueless and insensitive?
All of those things you mentioned make it difficult and I can only speak for me and not all women. I have had guys flirt with me and most times I do not care. But when it goes beyond a little banter to being all up in my grill or laying it on so thick that's when I have to employ my force field. I am very comfortable with boundaries now and that is all due to my sobriety. I have a sexual assault history and some women simply cant move beyond the trauma(nor should they have to). Yes, in certain ways it affects me but once I got sober everything just changed. But... then there are curve balls. I refuse to go to this one gas station because the guy always made it a point to caress my hands when taking my money and the last time I was forced to go because they were the only open station he commented that he hadnt seen my for so long and was patting me on the shoulder and all kinds of nonsense. You know what I did? I froze like a deer. Me, the direct blunt gal froze. This is the same girl who had a guy to close to me on the subway who told him to back the F up- but sometimes old behaviors and coping skills muck everything up. I doubt you are less attractive or too old. I think the fact that you are asking shows a lot. Men who feel women owe them do not ask. They complain and constantly push the envelope. They are not self aware enough to think about it like you are.

Quote:
Is there a right and wrong way to do this? A way that is flattering, unobtrusive, and respectful? I don't think the answer is putting on blinders and gritting your teeth and pretending women aren't there until you get home with your groceries. At least I hope not, because I think that's denying part of the natural instincts or nature of men.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

D.
The protector and feminist in my wants to tell you that there really is no right way because each woman has a story. But being a friendly person with an EXCELLENT sense of humor I personally can handle certain things. I guess leering is definitely out. Pretend you are dealing with a female family member and how she would want to be treated. Of course men have eyes but its what they do with every other part of their bodies that becomes the problem. Mostly it boils down to ownership, possessiveness and the idea that the world (especially women) owes them something because they are the persecuted ones. Unfortunately this does have a lot to do with male white privledge. I know that gets said a lot now in days but its true.
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  #187  
Old 09-22-18, 07:20 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

Phew, thanks for the thoughtful answers, and thanks for the assurances.

Honestly, this raises more questions than answers!

I think, like you said, a lot of it has to do with what MY attitude and MY body language is that day. If I'm feeling attractive and confident, a lot of times I'll be more likely to just "lightly look", like you said, or sometimes I'll even just be happy to be looked at or go my own merry way.

It's when I'm feeling down on myself and needy that I get the worst reactions. Honestly, in those situations it might BE better to just grit my teeth and get home.

I think men in general need to do a lot of thinking and be less petulant about it. We all know the guy at the party that ruins it for everyone else. There's a lot of that. Hopefully we can eventually get past this as a society to where things are a lot more fair and equitable. Unfortunately, there will always be that element, because men are just more susceptible to the predator mentality, and yes, we're often bigger and stronger too. I have 3 daughters, a mom, and 2 sisters, and female cousins and friends who I adore, so I've heard the stories and the worry, and I feel protective, for sure.

I'm not looking for a date these days, but I wonder what you would say to the guys who are? I'm not 100% sure that "pretending she's a family member" is the right approach in that case, because despite all of the things we've mentioned above, if you are looking to rouse interest in a woman as a potential partner, you DO have to connect with her on a primal, sexual level at some point, and usually early on.

What worked for me as a younger man was a light glance, and then if I was interested, or if I noticed her looking at me and I met her gaze with a confident look back and maybe a little smile, I could then decide whether to sidle up to her and make a witty comment to start things off, or move on. Definitely you blew your chances if you "followed her around to stare at her a--" or spent TOO much time trying to repeatedly make eye contact before venturing in. It's almost like you have to surprise them.

The only bummer is I don't get too many of those looks my way any more, and I DO think it's because I'm older. It's just a fact of life that you gradually become more and more invisible to the opposite sex as you pass 45 or so. And that sucks for both men and women.

D.
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  #188  
Old 09-22-18, 09:56 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

You can't control how you think, but you are 100% responsible for how your actions affect others.
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  #189  
Old 09-22-18, 10:09 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I would agree that its murky waters for men for sure. But that is seriously only murky for the good guys if you ask me. The fact that you are even asking shows me that you do not have the predator mentality. Ever hear about those "mens rights groups'?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement
Those types are more what I am talking about. And the scary thing is just like racism they are often hidden or men might feel all those things in secret unbeknownst to women.


I feel this way and that is because I am friendly to the entire world. I make small talk everywhere I go, I prefer learning people's names to address them and I am sure that I have probably made myself a target of men because I do not realize that being friendly could be mixed signals. I always hope that my wedding band is a magic shield.


It depends on the type of look, your body language and your respect for women's personal space and the way we would take your small talk.
There is a big difference in noticing a cute woman in the produce aisle and following her around the store so you can stare at her as*.


All of those things you mentioned make it difficult and I can only speak for me and not all women. I have had guys flirt with me and most times I do not care. But when it goes beyond a little banter to being all up in my grill or laying it on so thick that's when I have to employ my force field. I am very comfortable with boundaries now and that is all due to my sobriety. I have a sexual assault history and some women simply cant move beyond the trauma(nor should they have to). Yes, in certain ways it affects me but once I got sober everything just changed. But... then there are curve balls. I refuse to go to this one gas station because the guy always made it a point to caress my hands when taking my money and the last time I was forced to go because they were the only open station he commented that he hadnt seen my for so long and was patting me on the shoulder and all kinds of nonsense. You know what I did? I froze like a deer. Me, the direct blunt gal froze. This is the same girl who had a guy to close to me on the subway who told him to back the F up- but sometimes old behaviors and coping skills muck everything up. I doubt you are less attractive or too old. I think the fact that you are asking shows a lot. Men who feel women owe them do not ask. They complain and constantly push the envelope. They are not self aware enough to think about it like you are.



The protector and feminist in my wants to tell you that there really is no right way because each woman has a story. But being a friendly person with an EXCELLENT sense of humor I personally can handle certain things. I guess leering is definitely out. Pretend you are dealing with a female family member and how she would want to be treated. Of course men have eyes but its what they do with every other part of their bodies that becomes the problem. Mostly it boils down to ownership, possessiveness and the idea that the world (especially women) owes them something because they are the persecuted ones. Unfortunately this does have a lot to do with male white privledge. I know that gets said a lot now in days but its true.



Honestly the best explanation I've read.

And as far as older men not being attractive ... my daughter and I were just
talking about this the other day.

It started with her saying something about Jeff Goldblum's latest whatever ...
and I said I never found him all that appealing, even when he was younger.

Which led to the thought that some men absolutely are better looking and more
interesting to me as they age ... like Sean Connery. Women drooled over him
when was James Bond but I could have cared less. When he was showing a
little silver in his hair I could really fantasize about him then.
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  #190  
Old 09-24-18, 03:06 PM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

True story: a colleague of mine who was like 58 at the time ... shows up outside my job one day ... she's wearing a backpack ... and I tell her that she looks really young with the backpack look.

"That's interesting--that you say that," she says. "Because on the way in today, I got checked out by three men. I NEVER get checked out," she says. She had a smile on her face.

BTW: she's happily married.

So women, in my experience, don't mind a man checking them out ... as long as it is short, quick, not intense and appropriate.

Literally there is a clock running when a guy looks at a woman. Look too long and it gets creepy ...

There is also an "intensity" radar running when a guy checks out a woman. Check out someone with too much intensity and again, it gets creepy.

There are exceptions ... if you're interested in someone and you want to approach them and you have noticed them checking you out, you have more room and a longer time to check them out.

To get even more subtle, there's a huge difference between a look that says, "wow, she's pretty" vs. a look that says, "I want her. OMG. I want her now."

I work with young people and so I'm hyper-aware and vigilant about checking out my women students. I want the best for them and the best does include their teacher checking them out. I try to have intensity if I find myself looking at a student. Note: looking at students is part of my job in class ... because I check out attention and who seems to be following things ... I also check out their moods ... and I'm the teacher who will come to to someone later and say, "you looked a little sad the other day. I hope you are good."

But there's a difference in body language and energy between checking out someone as if I want to have sex with them ... and glancing at someone and catching a momentary look at their beauty.

I sometimes compliment women colleagues and they compliment me as well on how we're dressed. I find it helps to keep my comments very specific: "that color looks nice on you." And ... to keep the intensity down ... say it ... like you'd say this to a brother or sister. A little goes a long way, as they say.

Daniel you report getting ignored when you check out women in say the grocery store? ... You get a certain look that you interpret as censure.

I'm not sure that look is meant to say anything to you ... other than that hey, buddy, I know you are checking me out ... I'm not interested right now. I also think it must be frightening to be a young women, especially, getting checked out by an older guy.

Don't know if this works ... but sometimes if I catch myself having a strong reaction to a woman I pass by, I say hello (kinda neutral though maybe with a smile--and I continue walking). Mostly I get a good hello in response ... and it seems to me that's a nice exchange. And occasionally women will do this to me when we're walking towards each other on the sidewalk ... or in the aisle of the grocery store.

I interpret these moments as one person saying to the other, "Hey, I noticed you. You look nice." And the other party is saying, "thanks. I noticed you too."

And I have to say these moments do not feel awkward. So I think they're OK.
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  #191  
Old 09-25-18, 02:59 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

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The internet is pretty insidious too, especially if you have a hard time self-regulating. If that's the case, probably stay off the internet at 2 am. lol

D.
Awesome post-- but I really must make a New Years Resolution to stay off the internet at 2 am.
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Old 09-25-18, 10:23 AM
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Re: Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

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Awesome post-- but I really must make a New Years Resolution to stay off the internet at 2 am.
lol - I did that and so far going well.
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