ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community  

Go Back   ADD Forums - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Support and Information Resources Community > SCIENTIFIC DISCUSSIONS, RESEARCH, NEWS AND EVENTS > Scientific, Philosophical & Theoretical Discussions > Open Science & Philosophical Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Chat Members List Calendar Donate Gallery Arcade Mark Forums Read

Open Science & Philosophical Discussion This forum is for open discussion, encouraging new and unconventional ways of thinking, welcoming posts in any format

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-23-10, 03:21 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Just incredibly relevant.. lol...when I watched this a couple days ago, the same user who posted the matrix thing from the former... Re: 'Free will is an illusion, biologist says'



This is their channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ZMisrael

+_+_+_+_+_+_+

Just a way of measuring:
not a law:
invented as form of measurement:
man made:


Recalling my Astronomy/Meteorology/Soccer Coach mention that technically there is no such thing as a truly irreversible absolute law in science, just really good theories that are pretty much impossible to disprove, currently . .

The importance of this, I guess can be gleaned from sources such as these..Why else would these be created, in this society? Apparently we are realizing the importance of independence from the monetary system..In some very important endeavors.

Representing an emergent (greater than the sum of its parts).. Occurrence. .

http://oli.web.cmu.edu/openlearning/

The Surprising Truth about What Motivates Us:
http://fora.tv/2010/01/27/Daniel_Pin...t_Motivates_Us

Defiance of behavioral physics.. ?
_+_+_+_+

So these are 3 independent sources of information regarding the topic.. Very much a scientifically minded exercise. .

I'll just thow this in there.. To further understand the gist of what I'm keen on expressing


http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...arning&f=false

There is that which can be attributed to ADD/HD, and that which cannot, right now. Arugably
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to qinkin For This Useful Post:
Kunga Dorji (10-05-10), SB_UK (08-24-10)
  #2  
Old 08-23-10, 03:55 PM
meridian's Avatar
meridian meridian is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 5,137
Thanks: 10,907
Thanked 6,891 Times in 2,968 Posts
meridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

I love Alan Watts!
__________________
“The nature of the Universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end.” - Aldous Huxley

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

“Would you deny for others what you demand for yourself?” – U2

“The future ain't what it used to be.” – Yogi
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to meridian For This Useful Post:
danelady (11-13-10), Kunga Dorji (10-05-10), qinkin (08-23-10), salleh (08-27-10), SB_UK (08-24-10)
  #3  
Old 08-24-10, 01:39 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 20,171
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,100
Thanked 6,427 Times in 4,678 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin View Post
~
Great post and links.

From that wonderful presentation by Daniel Pink -
(had to watch it without sound so apologies if what follows isn't in line with Pink's commnetary)

Individuals performing tasks requiring mind perform best when:

1. Permitted Autonomy
2. Individuals gain Mastery
3. Individuals are aware and are enthused by the Purpose of the project

Great stuff.

Before watching the video, I'd have suggested that I'd expect the conclusion to be (in order of priority) ... ...

1. Doing something worthwhile [providing a personal sense of reward] for others
2. Alongside similarly principled others [increasing productivity rate and hence that former sense of reward] where the
3. Expertise develops with experience [increasing that personal sense of reward]

So ... ...

1. Purpose
2. Collaborative working which would (absolutely) work best if individuals are granted Autonomy
3. Mastery

~*~

Would suggest that true belief in Purpose is perhaps the most important motivating factor though - that we can forego autonomy and mastery (if necessary) as long as we're enthused by the belief that the task is of importance to other people (to the collective).
__________________
'IGNORE' FUNCTION BEING USED - 11 entries
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
qinkin (08-25-10)
Sponsored Links
  #4  
Old 08-24-10, 01:53 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 20,171
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,100
Thanked 6,427 Times in 4,678 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

No matter the autonomy provided nor the mastery which may be acquired
- if I know that the task is dumb (pointless) - I can't do it.

This incapacity to perform meaningless tasks for money is an attribute of ADD.

AD(H)D (Stabile : AD(H)D == 'enforced logical/moral consistency') makes doin' 'dumb' un-doable.
__________________
'IGNORE' FUNCTION BEING USED - 11 entries
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
danelady (11-13-10), FroGpants (10-29-10), Idisagree (02-04-11)
  #5  
Old 08-24-10, 03:19 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 20,171
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,100
Thanked 6,427 Times in 4,678 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Darn :-)
- just watched the entire presentation with sound and sure enough at 9' the author shifts his emphasis wholly onto the need for 'transcendent purpose'.
__________________
'IGNORE' FUNCTION BEING USED - 11 entries
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
qinkin (08-26-10)
  #6  
Old 08-25-10, 01:57 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Thanks a lot SB, and meridian..

Watts was my psychotherapist, during the hellish confusion of being a teenager.. Not that everyone's experience is hellish, though..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sb
1. Permitted Autonomy
2. Individuals gain Mastery
3. Individuals are aware and are enthused by the Purpose of the project
Well put.


+_+_+_

So it's like, how much further do we have to carry the burden?

TED conference had an interesting talk over the past month or so.. that was posted..

People did the wrong thing when they could just pay extra, and not worry about it.. People did the right thing, when there was no fee for being late to pick up the children..


All these sources of information: I can and will go on.. so as long as the situation exists. .


Quote:
Originally Posted by sb
Individuals performing tasks requiring mind perform best when:
exactly
Quote:
This incapacity to perform meaningless tasks for money is an attribute of ADD.
Perhaps.. Is not everyone's case (seemingly).. I dunno the ultimate implications, but in no way is this limited to people w/ADD.. Though definitions change.


Like a gap in living.. Knowing what's right, but can't do it, just b/c of not owning some silly-***** rule...or rather one big failed idea

"A splinter in your mind" so tender to the touch, so debilitating, barely existent, but oh so painful...can't do anything as well. .

Stepping on egg shells all day long"
~linkin park
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to qinkin For This Useful Post:
SB_UK (08-25-10)
  #7  
Old 08-26-10, 09:17 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

http://www.kurzweilai.net/open-sourc...-on-industry-2
It is possible that the evolution of open-source biology will be delayed by retrenchment on the part of corporations trying to protect intellectual property. However, the future model of biology as a technological instrument of any corporation can be found by simply looking at the way life currently makes use of biological technology. Only very rarely is it the case that advantage is conferred on an organism via a biochemically unique enzyme or pathway.
So.. that statement, just a small piece of that article, and out of its context, I don't think carries the main focus of the article.. .

I'll quote again:
Open-Source Biology And Its Impact on Industry
Beyond initial biomedical consequences, models that can be used to predict the effects of perturbations to existing biological systems will become de facto design tools, providing an infrastructure for creating new technologies based on biology. When we can successfully predict the behavior of designed biological systems, then an intentional biology will exist. With an explicit engineering component, intentional biology is the opposite of the current, very nearly random applications of biology as technology.
From quote 1, I get the sense of a kind of impeding of progress, save for a small elite..

I just find these notions incredibly interesting. In general..

http://www.fantastic-voyage.net/Articles.php

Here's a quote from the most recent article:
.."what makes people live long lives is not lack of genetic disposition to disease but longevity-promoting genes."
Some of you would find these articles, to die for.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to qinkin For This Useful Post:
Kunga Dorji (10-05-10)
  #8  
Old 08-26-10, 09:38 PM
meridian's Avatar
meridian meridian is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 5,137
Thanks: 10,907
Thanked 6,891 Times in 2,968 Posts
meridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond reputemeridian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin View Post
Watts was my psychotherapist, during the hellish confusion of being a teenager..
So what was Watts like as a therapist? Don't tell me YOU talked all the time!

This must have been a while back since I though he passed in the 70s? Of course I myself was a teenager from 1963-1970

I was looking for a good decade or two for a copy of "The Two Hands Of God" that I wouldn't have to import from the UK for $75+ and finally found one at the Strand in NYC for $8 a while back. Now to actually read it!
__________________
“The nature of the Universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end.” - Aldous Huxley

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

“Would you deny for others what you demand for yourself?” – U2

“The future ain't what it used to be.” – Yogi
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to meridian For This Useful Post:
qinkin (08-26-10)
  #9  
Old 08-28-10, 02:17 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

I only paid money for Watts about 5 years ago.. and I gave that book to one of my friends for keeps.

Torrent technology rendered me the entire works books-video-and many many audios.. I recently listened to the chanting Album, that he made.. OMG. then hard-drive died, and got replaced a few years ago, before I knew how to go about prevention and replacing..

Friend recently paid 2400$ to get his broken 5years worth of hard-drive's data recovered!! He'd appreciate me letting you guys know, to have a backup hard-drive and make regular backups..

Bears repeating "it strikes me how influential this guy is/was"..I had no idea, ti'l a little over 2-years after having been listening. I can go on about all of it.. I even went to an Ethics meetup group a few years ago, and this retired guy dedicated an entire meeting to Watts.. He lectured here in Wash-U, St. Louis...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-28-10, 02:57 PM
mechnik's Avatar
mechnik mechnik is offline
Contributor
 

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 308
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 289
Thanked 217 Times in 132 Posts
mechnik has disabled reputation
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by meridian View Post
So what was Watts like as a therapist? Don't tell me YOU talked all the time!

This must have been a while back since I though he passed in the 70s? Of course I myself was a teenager from 1963-1970

I was looking for a good decade or two for a copy of "The Two Hands Of God" that I wouldn't have to import from the UK for $75+ and finally found one at the Strand in NYC for $8 a while back. Now to actually read it!
Watts died in 1973.
I would go nuts flipping through all the books on the 1/2 price tables at the Strand during the 80's, went there regularly. There was a multitude of others doing the same thing. I must have looked through at least 7 1/2 miles of books.
Visited last year after 20 years. Much as I remember it, quieter. Actually bought something off the shelves this time instead of madly hunting for a bargain.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mechnik For This Useful Post:
meridian (10-13-10), qinkin (08-29-10)
  #11  
Old 08-29-10, 08:41 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Nontheless this topic is much more than the person Alan Watts.. Alan Watts (as he admits)is just a cunning ego in the scheme of it all, a tried and true reliable source of information, despite all else. I like his voice too. Speaks well.

+_+_+

I went to an actual Zeitgeist meeting today....Got there, eventually.. haha.. Anyway, I talked face to face w/people about this, there were fellows there of all personality types, roughly 20-70 years of age.

www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
has a wonderful lively forum

To be completely honest in the most defeating view presented to me, in fact, by the leader itself.

It's not going to happen in our lifetime. No way.

But he didn't get scientific enough.

A true scientist, I would add, Barliman, must be unbiased towards the cause. To not withhold relevant information, to draw conclusions based on observations, not drawing conclusions based on mere experience, and well, that's what makes the difference between prophetic educated guesses, vs scientifically exhaustive information, based upon hypothesis.


Time? Is used in the scientific method, however, it is a precise, unchanging basically, and not arbitrary form of measurement, used globally, therefore that's the underlying agreement towards the validity which is known well, as all children come to understand the importance, and eventually the limits of it, but that further leads to understanding of time itself...arguably

Rockefellers+, i think i remember mechnik, you mentioning this.. did you hear this talk?



It's such a simple OMG thing.. It's science, b/c we are dealing w/not understanding an aspect of human affairs... Which hypothetically, unjustly dictates all endeavors, especially the scientific research and development we justly hold onto readily..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to qinkin For This Useful Post:
SB_UK (09-09-10)
  #12  
Old 09-01-10, 03:32 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 20,171
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,100
Thanked 6,427 Times in 4,678 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin,Zeitgeist leader View Post
It's not going to happen in our lifetime. No way.
With personal enquiry into money (generally) comes a quite unexpected outcome - the absolute incapacity to have anything to do with it.

The mind's gonna' get a stranglehold on,
where no matter the wriggle writhing ... ... ...

As soon as a couple more experience this state of mind and getta' yakkin'
- well -
change and fast
- so there'd be no choice really, no point fightin'it - just go with the flow.

Un why you no surprisee?
Because the absolute incapacity to have absolutely anything to do with {money,ownership,stuff} is logically correct from a species survival perspective.

- 'this state of mind' (the spiritual state) carries with it a violent revulsion towards what money represents, buys, implies ... ...
- the revulsion is to the lesser state of mind
upon which
money relies.

So ... ... ... change and fast

__________________
'IGNORE' FUNCTION BEING USED - 11 entries
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
qinkin (09-01-10)
  #13  
Old 09-01-10, 03:42 PM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: -
Posts: 20,171
Blog Entries: 20
Thanks: 6,100
Thanked 6,427 Times in 4,678 Posts
SB_UK has disabled reputation
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin View Post
Alan Watts
A little of Ray Kurzweil sustainably and inconspicuously set out within Plum Village.

Massive bandwidth serving a distributed array of hobbit villages
- the global village.

Ring bad



Fully connected good

My precious {ring,crown} now no longer wearable by any one.

Full distribution of everything.
__________________
'IGNORE' FUNCTION BEING USED - 11 entries
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SB_UK For This Useful Post:
qinkin (09-01-10)
  #14  
Old 09-04-10, 04:29 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

-=-=creation, and destruction at the very same hands of mankind.

So we need to understand.. Well that's easy, i think it's already explained enough..

What else could there be to explain?

What's left? Understanding? Well, I hope it goes over well, there's nothing I can do, unless somebody asks a non-rhetorical question. It's incredible that not one person has presented any kind of counter in this thread, other than some clarification, which is left TOTALLY UNCOUNTERED. (not that everyone is stupid, not what I'm saying)

Absolutely unparalleled. This is the solution, for what I can see as the final large scale battle mankind must impose on itself. . . All else, well, like organic stuff too is important, but this will impede (as kurzweil mentions in the realm of open-source biology) the right to access and utilize, save for possibly only the very wealthy.. dunno

- so there'd be no choice really, no point fightin'it - just go with the flow.
-proving to be so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics



Remedy?
Resource Based Economic Biological Democracy /

It's the remedy which is sought. .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to qinkin For This Useful Post:
SB_UK (09-09-10)
  #15  
Old 09-05-10, 12:02 PM
qinkin's Avatar
qinkin qinkin is offline
ADDvanced Forum ADDvocate
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: midwest of US
Posts: 2,221
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1,275
Thanked 828 Times in 630 Posts
qinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to allqinkin is a name known to all
Re: Living & Motivation~Scientific-Method~Will~Monetary-Based-Economy

http://remote.scccld.lib.mo.us:8080/...=309&VName=PQD

does this link work for anyone? do you actually get to see anything?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to qinkin For This Useful Post:
SB_UK (09-09-10)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adult ADHD--According to Dr Amens 6 ADD types LiLMissADDitude General ADD Talk 213 11-24-10 08:52 PM
Science and Definitions Kunga Dorji Science in the Media 40 11-24-10 02:18 PM
Poll: Is it common for ADDers to have Blonde hair and Blue Eyes? LostandFound General ADD Talk 94 02-24-05 02:43 AM
Jane Pauley shares her story: Former Dateline NBC co-host talks @ struggle w/illness Andi Bipolar 14 09-15-04 09:38 AM
Illinois Mental Health Services Draga Illinois 0 08-17-04 09:42 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 2003 - 2015 ADD Forums