Are men not allowed to think about sex anymore?

[WhiteOwl]

Originally Posted by Stevuke79

That sounds like good advice for a lot of reasons. The down side is that it requires more effort and a bit more guts.. but trying to get around that isn't necessarily a good idea.

Yes, it can be extremely difficult for someone with social anxiety. That's the main reason I've been holding off until my anxiety is better controlled with meds.

What do you mean by "trying to get around that isn't necessarily a good idea"? Because it will just make things worse? The thing is, both online dating and meeting people in person can worsen anxiety and lower self-esteem, so it seems like you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils.

At least meeting people in person, it seems like there is a slightly better chance of meeting someone "real" and if it's related to your hobby, it could generate more real and natural interactions. I just feel like there has to be something to tell people with severe social anxiety. They shouldn't just be doomed to eternal loneliness. What other option is there, besides trying to work through the anxiety?

[Stevuke79]

Originally Posted by aeon

Well, if someone decides to measure you up by comparing and contrasting you with their idea of what a man is, that’s their business, and you can just walk on by.

In a sense they are deselecting themselves for you... And saving you the trouble.

We have to remember that when someone looks at us and doesn't see what they want,... That's what they're supposed to do. And we're actually doing the same thing.

[WhiteOwl]

Originally Posted by aeon

I’ll just add that I met a few interesting people and had an okay time on a dating site (OKCupid).

My experience of Meetup was an utter disaster in that I selected what I thought would be compatible-minded people, and well, my expectation led to disappointment.

I went to a group where we sorted medical supplies and got them ready to be sent to places in need around the world.

I knew the evening was going to be at least interesting when I got gently shamed for the car I drove there.

Over time, they asked me about myself, and in the end, I just wasn’t the right kind of do-gooder to be part of their group...whatever.


Cheers,
Ian

You just made me more nervous about the photography meetup I just signed up for. I hope my camera is good enough for me to fit in with the cool kids!

[Fraser_0762]

Look, i'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm simply speaking my own mind and how I feel. People are entitled to disagree with me.

I can only talk about things from how I experience them. People can call me a bad person, or a sexist, or whatever they like. I know what I am in my own mind and I know what my experiences are in my own mind.

[Stevuke79]

Originally Posted by WhiteOwl

Yes, it can be extremely difficult for someone with social anxiety. That's the main reason I've been holding off until my anxiety is better controlled with meds.

Yes it's very difficult.. and good luck to you btw. It sounds like you'll be fine when you're ready... you have a healthy way of thinking about it which in my experience was the hardest part.

What do you mean by "trying to get around that isn't necessarily a good idea"? Because it will just make things worse? The thing is, both online dating and meeting people in person can worsen anxiety and lower self-esteem, so it seems like you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils.

In a sense.. you said exactly what I mean..

both online dating and meeting people in person can worsen anxiety and lower self-esteem, so it seems like you have to decide which is the lesser of two evils.

Perhaps you said it sharper than I did. I'm not saying that online is wrong or not a good idea.. what I'm saying is that either way you're going to have to wade through the garbage...

And going out to meet people is difficult and nerve racking.. it requires energy and the mental preparedness to accept rejection before we even see a face. We have to do all that work before getting the slightest bit of feedback... and if we see someone who is a jerk or offensive we can't simply block them.

But once we get there, we are among a group of people who all want to be there and who all share a common interest. The people who weren't able for whatever reason (no judgement) to show up in person aren't there (this will even include most of the jerks) And most of the people there will have come prepared to meet people, say hi, share a common interest.. and all get along. And even if you don't get a phone number.. the day is not a loss,.. you've done something productive.


On the other hand online,.. you don't have to get up and go.. you don't have to put yourself together and prepare for the anxiety of meeting people and the pain of possible rejection.. you don't even have to find a common interest or expel much energy before you can already start seeing faces and sending messages.. and even get a bit of positive feedback. It's so much easier to get started online.

So that's the upside of online.. it's also the downside.. because all of that sorting that happened upfront in person.. once you start sending messages.. all that same sorting still needs to be done. All the people who wouldn't get up and go or prepare themselves for positive interaction... online they're all still there and need to be filtered.

And then after doing all that work.. if you don't find someone interesting.. it's all for naught.

At least meeting people in person, it seems like there is a slightly better chance of meeting someone "real" and if it's related to your hobby, it could generate more real and natural interactions. I just feel like there has to be something to tell people with severe social anxiety. They shouldn't just be doomed to eternal loneliness. What other option is there, besides trying to work through the anxiety?

absolutely .. and if someone really can't get up and go, online can be an option because you don't have to overcome the initial anxiety.. but you haven't really gotten around it because ultimately you will have to deal with it at some point down the road (like when you start sending messages) ... either because no one is responding or because you're meeting a lot of jerks.

So I'm not saying online is wrong and bad.. I'm just saying it's ease and immediate gratification comes at a cost.

[Stevuke79]

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762

Look, i'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm simply speaking my own mind and how I feel. People are entitled to disagree with me.

I can only talk about things from how I experience them. People can call me a bad person, or a sexist, or whatever they like. I know what I am in my own mind and I know what my experiences are in my own mind.

absolutely.. i don't think anyone is upset or angry at you. I think we're just offering our insights.. which is also not intended to upset and you can feel free to disagree with.

I think you've gotten some good advice.

[Fraser_0762]

Originally Posted by Stevuke79

absolutely.. i don't think anyone is upset or angry at you. I think we're just offering our insights.. which is also not intended to upset and you can feel free to disagree with.

I think you've gotten some good advice.

Sorry, but the advice is advice that i'm all too familiar with. It's the sort of stuff I believed before I realized it just didn't make any difference for me.

I'm someone that people hate on sight. I don't need to do or say anything for people to dislike me and it's just something i've got to live with.

[Emre22]

I really dont understand why people are so confused about this topic, it is so simple that if you are interested in hookups,sex,one night stand etc. there is nothing wrong about it.Sex is a need like eating,drinking water etc.Simply let other person know what u are interested in before having a relationship in order to avoid hurting someone's feeling. If that person is ok with it, go ahead and enjoy your time.If she isnt ok with it , she isnt looking for that kind of relationship , pass and look for next one.

[WhiteOwl]

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762

Look, i'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm simply speaking my own mind and how I feel. People are entitled to disagree with me.

I can only talk about things from how I experience them. People can call me a bad person, or a sexist, or whatever they like. I know what I am in my own mind and I know what my experiences are in my own mind.

I personally like to hear people's honest opinions on things, even if I disagree or think they're ignorant. Everyone is ignorant in some areas, talking about it is how you learn.

I do think all the awesome women on this forum should open your eyes to the fact that the women you have been talking to on these sites do not represent all women. And there probably are some decent women on there, you just have to weed through all the bad ones.

[Stevuke79]

I don't like thanking a comment that I completely disagree with.

Originally Posted by Fraser

I'm someone that people hate on sight.

Not likely.. you seem like a nice guy. (Maybe you made one bitter remark that I gave you a hard time for but that I wouldn't hold against you because it's understandable coming from someone who is having a hard time with dating.. but overall you seem very likeable)

And even if someone does hate you..and we are ALL hated by someone..from your profile pic you are very handsome so I don't think they could hate you on sight. They would have to at least get to know you before they could find something to hate... Which I doubt many people find in your case.

I don't need to do or say anything for people to dislike me and it's just something i've got to live with.

It's very sad if you believe that. And let's be honest... Some people have a pretty unappealing appearance.. but that's not you.

Make sure you aren't just giving yourself a way out. As painful as it is to say "I'm unlikeable" ... It's also easy and relieves a lot of stress.

[Fraser_0762]

Originally Posted by Stevuke79

I don't like thanking a comment that I completely disagree with.



Not likely.. you seem like a nice guy. (Maybe you made one bitter remark.. that I wouldn't hold against you because it's understandable coming from someone who is having a hard time with dating.. but overall you seem very likeable)

And even if someone does hate you..and we are ALL hated by someone..from your profile pic you are very handsome so I don't think they could hate you on sight. They would have to at least get to know you before they could find something to hate... Which I doubt many people find in your case.



It's very sad if you believe that. And let's be honest... Some people have a pretty unappealing appearance.. but that's not you.

Make sure you aren't just giving yourself a way out. As painful as it is to say "I'm unlikeable" ... It's also easy and relieves a lot of stress.

To be honest, I only ever use a handful of pictures and they are deceptive. They were all taken at just the right angle and lighting and edited like crazy, just to make me look as close to average as possible. But in person, my flaws are there for everybody to see. I have a "mean" looking face and complexion and I just can't seem to get rid of it. Even when I try to smile, it appears deceptive. I have so many flaws and not just facial flaws either. I seem to have a very negative body language and can't seem to control it.

Perhaps i'm exaggerating when I say people "hate me" on sight. But I certainly don't look like someone that anybody would trust or want to spend time with doing anything. Even if I somehow got lucky and someone was able to look past these flaws, I have the personality of a wet sponge and they would very quickly get fed up being around me.

[Stevuke79]

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762

To be honest, I only ever use a handful of pictures and they are deceptive. They were all taken at just the right angle and lighting and edited like crazy, just to make me look as close to average as possible. But in person, my flaws are there for everybody to see. I have a "mean" looking face and complexion and I just can't seem to get rid of it. Even when I try to smile, it appears deceptive. I have so many flaws and not just facial flaws either. I seem to have a very negative body language and can't seem to control it.

Perhaps i'm exaggerating when I say people "hate me" on sight. But I certainly don't look like someone that anybody would trust or want to spend time with doing anything. Even if I somehow got lucky and someone was able to look past these flaws, I have the personality of a wet sponge and they would very quickly get fed up being around me.

We ALL think that. No one loves the way they look... or at least only very few people do. And lots of people have a "resting scowl".

What can you do.. and my smile is awkward AF.

I'm sure you have challenges to get over in this regard.. and I believe you that they are more challenging than most people's challenges. And I really do sympathize.

But when we get hyperbolic about our flaws and limitations,.. we begin to believe the hyperbole.

[WhiteOwl]

Originally Posted by Fraser_0762

To be honest, I only ever use a handful of pictures and they are deceptive. They were all taken at just the right angle and lighting and edited like crazy, just to make me look as close to average as possible. But in person, my flaws are there for everybody to see. I have a "mean" looking face and complexion and I just can't seem to get rid of it. Even when I try to smile, it appears deceptive. I have so many flaws and not just facial flaws either. I seem to have a very negative body language and can't seem to control it.

Perhaps i'm exaggerating when I say people "hate me" on sight. But I certainly don't look like someone that anybody would trust or want to spend time with doing anything. Even if I somehow got lucky and someone was able to look past these flaws, I have the personality of a wet sponge and they would very quickly get fed up being around me.

If you have high anxiety and negative energy because of your perceived flaws, it can repel people. I have had this problem in the past, where my anxious vibes made people uncomfortable around me. The only way it has gotten somewhat better, is with time and a lot of (unwilling) exposure. Now I probably still come across as shy, unsure, awkward and somewhat nervous, but I don't think I still give off that strong negative anxious energy. Well, and I think meds will help with this, too.

If you're having to "try" to smile, of course it will come across as deceptive. Genuine smiles are usually much more appealing. If you're with someone you can't give a genuine smile with, you probably shouldn't be with them.

You don't seem to have the personality of a wet sponge online, so I'm not sure why you say that. Is it possible you have a warped view of yourself and you just assume people wouldn't like your personality? I know my low self-esteem has always told me, and still tells me, that no one would like me. All my flaws are magnified in my mind. It's very difficult to get past this and I don't know if I ever will, but I try to tell myself it's just in my mind and the right person will not focus on my flaws like I do.

[Stevuke79]

I used to be AWFUL socially. Like HORRIBLE. If you met me back then you wouldn't believe.

Now... Im good enough. I'm passable. I know what works. I embarrass myself from time to time.. I pyss people off and say really stupid and rude things.. and I've learned how to handle that too. I still say stupid and sometimes awful things that no one else will say... But 15 years later I am PASSABLE for a normal person.

Practice, practice, practice. It sucks but it's true ... The first step is failing and humiliating yourself.

I don't expect anyone to take that advice.. but it works.. your brain on will learn. You will develop prepared responses that work 80% of the time. I had to start with special outfits.. particular (horrible) faces that were better than my resting face. I said the same 1 liner EVER TIME.. but I got through... And after years and months I expanded my game.

Some people are born great at it.. some people are born "ok" .. for those of us who are born sucking, we can get better if we can just suck it up and humiliate ourselves.

[Stevuke79]

I used to practice how to deal with bullies. How to disincentivize them without antagonizing them. (My smiles are terrible but I honed this distracted subtle smile and nod.. like I wasn't really listening. It makes them feel invalidated and putting in more energy is a further risk to their ego)

I worked on my listening smile... My interested face .. my happy to see u face .. I would just practice them while alone or driving (partially bc I'm obsessive)

Get out there...
See what goes wrong...
Plan for next time...

What really helped me was don't say so much... ask them about them. (Men or women) Ask interested questions.. even if you're not interested... You will learn to be interested. Being interested is more important than being interesting ... What everyone loves is an opportunity to talk about themselves... But we're all shy about it... So prompt them to do it and then look interested and ask questions.