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Old 12-18-18, 01:18 PM
lennyking lennyking is offline
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Is school just ill-suited for us, and should we expect more from it?

I don't think about myself as a stupid person, but still sometimes, sometimes even too often, someone who struggles with school or/and workplace related issues. This has lead me to a lot of contemplating about why this seems to be the case, and what would work out better for me when tackling new things. If I try to analyze what makes me learn stuff I can localize two main aspects in the process.

1. Context. Putting the subject in context of why I want to learn more about it and how to use the knowledge to answer or solve existing problems. Finding out by myself what meaning it has to me.

2. Creativity. Actually getting the chance to use it in several ways, try out different perspectives, and be able to both apply it to criticize other theories and criticize it from the perspective of other theories and already obtained knowledge. Or use it in practice to create something or just basically enjoy it if possible. I'm definitely a "learning by doing"-person. In all my years as a student, especially in university, I always felt more comfortable and high achieving when the assignment left me a space of freedom and creativity.

Unfortunately, I experienced school taking quite the opposite approach; learning for the sake of learning, expecting me to memorize isolated concepts, never questioning their role or lack of role in the bigger picture. And frankly it got worse as I proceeded through the system and into higher levels of education. Now in university/college 99% of study time is just about remember who said what, arguing about this and that, not knowing if you ever actually will be able to put the information in to any use whatsoever.

Because of this I always hated and still do dislike school and consider it boring and harsh. I don't have any problems reading books generally, just reading books that I don't want to read but someone have decided over my head that I have to read anyway. Yes, I can see how theoretical knowledge can be important in the long run, but "long run" is often too abstract for me to find meaningful. And what is worse; long run happens to not seldom rather end in no run.

But is it really wrong to expect more? Maybe most people like this kind of straight learning, but isn't it really also a convenient method for lazy teachers, not to encourage students to be a part of what they are learning? Or is it just me being self-centered, blaming the environment for my own lack of self-fulfillment?

I'm not sure if it's mainly a ADD thing or something personal, but the issue seems to at least be related to ADD and the difficulty to manage tasks that are unrewarding. And therefore, do you think like me that school would work out better for us if the traditional "teacher writing on the board and holding monologues"-style was reformed in to less limited ways of teaching?

Also: I don't know how much education differ between different nations, but in your own experience, have there been programs that works better for us with this condition, taking a heavier approach on the need for creativity and practice in to account, and in that way would be more suiting?

Sorry for the long post. It kind of ended up in a mix between rant and query.
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Old 12-19-18, 11:52 PM
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Re: Is school just ill-suited for us, and should we expect more from it?

Definitely agree, I gave up on traditional education long ago.
The more I know the more I am stunned of how people are willing to accept such a ridiculous system.

The higher ed. is based on a primitive principle of authority and repetition: I am the master of this art and do what I am doing to be a good, certified graduate. Which means we are srewed bc no ADHD ppl make it into university proessional level to instruct us propery (well unless hey have also a very high IQ and support which means they're a class in its own apart from ADD personaliy and worldview).

The lower-level education is just a silly holdover from Enlightment-inspired industrial revolution age when the masters of puppets decided to invest in a warm class where future labour-force will learn to read instuctions and behave and their parents will be more focusd at work knowng the offspring is being safe.
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Last edited by userguide; 12-19-18 at 11:57 PM.. Reason: excuse me for ypos :)
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Old 01-06-19, 11:57 PM
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Re: Is school just ill-suited for us, and should we expect more from it?

Preach
I feel so strongly about education and school in general. College wasn't built for ADHD people and High School wasn't for me. Most of my college courses so far have been a complete waste of my time and money. I have to take a Roman and Greek studies course. Seriously? I'm chasing a computer science degree. When will i ever be doing some networking and think "how did the ancient Roman's do this". I think education is so beyond outdated in it's belief system. It only holds on because people are told if you don't have a degree you'll never succeed. Everyone has the fear of failure and fear of not fitting in. So send little bobby or little becky to our fine overpriced institution and they will be like all the other little sheep. College is the only place on earth where you get zero guarantee for your money. If you pass o/k, if you fail o/k we still get our money and you pay loans forever and ever. I have a coworker who chased a master's and regrets it completely. Over 100k in debt he will never be able to pay back. He's in default and the black vans are coming for him. I don't feel i'm any less intelligent than my peers. I just learn completely different than them. But different isn't the norm and we only cater to the norm. I could preach on this subject all night.
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Old 01-07-19, 07:14 AM
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Re: Is school just ill-suited for us, and should we expect more from it?

In the US there are associates which are 2 years degrees and Bachelors which are 4 year degrees. Then there are Masters and PHD's which are higher level degrees. I wish I had known then what I do now and did what my son did. I went to a 4 year school and had loans. My son went to a 2 year community college and got his associates but he went to one that is linked with a 4 year school and all his credits transferred. So rather than paying 65,000$ for his education its going to end up about 25,000$ and he will end up with a BS. IMO the first two years of college are mostly garbage because you are busy filling your requirements. I swear I have never used Finite math again and I scraped by with a c. They make you take all these requirements and for what? I would rather immerse myself in my major and have 4 solid or 2 solid years of that. I believe they do it for money.
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Old 01-18-19, 12:15 AM
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Re: Is school just ill-suited for us, and should we expect more from it?

I so understand what you are saying. Going to school and I don't get along well BUT I love teaching kids. I think it's because I had such a rough experience- particularly elementary school. The structure and philosophy of the school and ADHD were/are like oil and water.

Quote:
1. Context. Putting the subject in context of why I want to learn more about it and how to use the knowledge to answer or solve existing problems. Finding out by myself what meaning it has to me.

2. Creativity. Actually getting the chance to use it in several ways, try out different perspectives, and be able to both apply it to criticize other theories and criticize it from the perspective of other theories and already obtained knowledge. Or use it in practice to create something or just basically enjoy it if possible. I'm definitely a "learning by doing"-person. In all my years as a student, especially in university, I always felt more comfortable and high achieving when the assignment left me a space of freedom and creativity.
The examples you gave are the basis for Adult Learning Theory by Malcolm Knowles. If you look it up you will find common ground.
I think universities, at least in the west, are in a tough spot as technically the students are adults but are emotionally still young and getting younger from what I've read.
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