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  #1  
Old 02-08-09, 04:49 PM
justadadnow justadadnow is offline
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befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

I know too much
I know too little
Not sure what to do

So I searched wide
And found this place
To help me with a clue

Hi,
Situations are unique unto themselves and sometimes there are no easy answers. This is where I find myself and would like insight from anyone.

I think I need to provide some history on myself to add some perspective.
From the age of 12 to 18 1/2 I lived in a world of psychology because I was considered different. I was diagnosed as normal but weird IQ. I share some traits as one who has AD(H)D but supposedly am not. I do have a high empathy quotient for those I care about but also have an analytical side that interpolates data on some weird mathematical plain. I am a very good listener. I am introverted. My brain is strange.

Weird enough yet? gets worse

1 year kinda living a dream relationship almost completely over a telephone with a bipolar woman with 2 children stuck with an abusive boyfriend who came back after the protective order ran out and just wouldn't leave

15 year relationship (current)with my soon to be ex wife, she gets disability for depression and paranoia, but since reading so much about ADD I think she is undiagnosed, she was abused by her brother as a child, alcoholic parents and only recently was I able to get him out of her life for 3 years legally,we remain friends and she is doing much better now, has a boyfriend who may be perfect for her, we have a daughter together who was recently opined ADHD at 13,

18 month relationship with diagnosed clinically depressed, anxiety disorder, bi-polar 2 and BPD, diagnosed ADD as a child, also long term alcoholic and violent, I ending up staying for the sake of her 10 year old son, she is in denial of the BPD and is no longer medicated, from what I hear through the grapevine is she is sinking fast once again

Current conundrum. Just before christmas I met a woman through a personal ad and we hit it off fantastic. She is going through a nasty divorce with a verbally abusive alcoholic by her accounts. We seemed to be going on a wonderful path then woosh, super back off city in the real world. Confused me all get out as we continued to have incredibly long IM sessions. We also got into a pattern of nightly visits online that I likened to a husband and wife that due to circumstances are far away. Most of the time we seemed to communicate wonderfully but there were a few times when I was totally baffled that we were arguing. Behaviors that didnt seem to make sense. Then one night she was talking about a guy at work pontificating and mentioned ADD and things started to make sense to me

She is religious and her marriage was 25 years long which she says she survived because he was gone most of the time and she had her children (now grown). She took on a job where she travels more than 26 weeks a year to be away. When he retired things got worse until she left. Though separated 3 years he has kept them bound financially. She also has a very sick dad in Texas who she is taking care of long distance. He recently went into the hospital.

From my reading on ADD I believe she is over extended supermom ADHD. She chooses to remain off medication and has learned a lot of coping skills over the years but living with her soon to be ex for all those years I think has her ingrained to assume certain behaviors on the parts of others. I do not think she understands herself very well and why others act the way they due in response to her behaviors.

She has a lot on her plate.

Right when she went woosh she also put her foot down in getting the divorce finalized. The property is now in mediation. She is going to be handling everything alone and is very worried about her job. She has a particular plan that she is sticking to.

I had been pushing for some answers because her feelings toward me were confusing me to say the least. She admitted she loves me but can't "drop the sword" and say it but also says not romantically now. She says she doent think she can feel that way for a long time but at the same time also has made statements that make me think otherwise but that she needs to take care of things first. So I am still confused and don't know how I should feel.

I have been reading alot on ADD, I know way too much about BPD which has similarities. I can see from what she has told me where her ADHD has casused her so much disappointment in her life. I can see where our relationship went to a point quicker than she intended and she realized that she had to get things done in order for it to continue and so hyperfocused on that and stopped focusing on me. I think she has put me on standby figuring that when she gets it done that we will continue then as if time isnt passing for me. Make sense? It could all be wishful thinking on my part.

I have always been able to see past the now and bad timing. From what she has said and from what I have read she needs the peaceful place to recharge. Originally I was that until she went woosh. That is what caused some problems. If the bad timing wasn't there and we were real life it would have been different. Online and phone is not condusive to great communication when when one needs to look in someones eyes and her current circumstances prohibit that.

I have gone from being "in love" to loving and am on the brink of being just a friend and looking elsewhere. I have been becoming her venting buddy as of late. She has so much that she is having to deal with there isnt any time for play. So right now I am on the fence. I see the wonderful possibilities of an US (we are very well matched), I see the possiblity of her being devastated when taking care of her divorce and I am no longer available, and I see the resentment and hurt I would feel if I wait for the possibilty and nothing materializes because her interest wains due to no real life stimulation.

How do you communicate with someone that needs eye to eye contact when you cant look them in the face?

How do you let someone know that they can trust you when their life has told them that they can't?

How do you tell someone that you care about that you are trying to understand but that they need to understand too without them feeling hurt?

How do you tell someone you love that they think differently than most other people and that their understanding of that and of themselves may explain the disappointments in their life and help them overcome them?

How do you get the attention of someone who has attention deficit disorder?

These are questions that I am asking myself and I am not sure of the answers. Anyone have any answers?

Sorry for being so long winded.

Steve
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Old 02-08-09, 05:13 PM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Quote:
Originally Posted by justadadnow View Post
She is going through a nasty divorce
nightly visits online that I likened to a husband and wife

She is religious
and her marriage was 25 years long
Though separated 3 years he has kept them bound financially. ]

She chooses to remain off medication

She has a lot on her plate.

Right when she went woosh she also put her foot down in getting the divorce finalized.

She says she doent think she can feel that way

I could point out many more red flags here but these are the strongest I think. She is married, has not resolved her marriage, and is putting out personal ads? She chooses not to get treament for her problems. She isn't able to be romantically involved with you and yet you feel like "husband and wife".

Also it sounds like you have a history of getting involved with projects instead of people. Almost every relationship you have been in, the other person has had major issues and red flags flying high.

why do you like people who are damaged?

Your emotional safety is compromised with this woman. You will end up trying to save her and failing. You deserve better, and if you do not know that you should try to find ways to be happier about yourself before getting involved so closely with others.

I hope you dont find this too blunt, but your story made me worried for you.

edited to add: who cares why she is all wrong for you? Whatever is going on with her has no bearing on what you need to do for yourself.
What I care more about is why you would want someone who is all wrong for you.
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  #3  
Old 02-08-09, 08:51 PM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Hi reesah,

Thanks for being blunt I do appreciate it.

To clear up a couple of points.

She answered my ad without knowing that I was an abuse survivor. Even without that commonality. We hit it off fantastically. We do have very similar thought patterns and personalities but I don't have ADHD but do think differently than most folks. I am also only separated but mine is amicable and my soon to be ex and myself are friends. In her case it was his trying to keep controlling her that was holding up the process. I think I may be her HOPE that lifted her up to challenge.

I know I can't save her and she knows it too. She has said that I deserve better and it is selfish for her to love me. She says she needs to fix herself first. It has been a worthwhile relationship that we both have gotten a lot out of. I know that she loves me and quite possibly more but is scared because she knows what the situation is and I could walk away so she is protecting herself. There are many reasons why she can't be in love with me now but from what she has told me I believe she cant act on anything until her divorce is final. She has basically said that I am the man in her life but she needs it to go slow.

I was emotionally in a bad place because I fell "in love" but that is past. I am in a good emotional place right now though I am worried for her.

The key in any relationship is trust and understanding. Trust takes time no matter what and I think she already trusts me more than anyone else in her life. What I desire is a better understanding of how someone with ADHD thinks. I know a great deal from reading but generalized statements about TIME and FACIAL expressions only help so much. The more I can understand the more both of us can get from the relationship in whatever form it takes. In looking back I can see many things that I would have done differently knowing she is ADHD and dont want to repeat them. I would like to learn better communication skills so my friend and I do so better.

As you can see I can be very long written and I know that is very hard for a person with ADHD.

I would also know if it is possible that a person with ADHD can hold feelings for months as if it were a day.

steve
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Old 02-08-09, 11:11 PM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Quote:
Originally Posted by justadadnow View Post
Current conundrum. Just before christmas I met a woman through a personal ad and we hit it off fantastic. She is going through a nasty divorce with a verbally abusive alcoholic by her accounts. We seemed to be going on a wonderful path then woosh, super back off city in the real world. Confused me all get out as we continued to have incredibly long IM sessions. We also got into a pattern of nightly visits online that I likened to a husband and wife that due to circumstances are far away. Behaviors that Most of the time we seemed to communicate wonderfully but there were a few times when I was totally baffled that we were arguing. Behaviors that didnt seem to make sense. Then one night she was talking about a guy at work pontificating and mentioned ADD and things started to make sense to me

From my reading on ADD I believe she is over extended supermom ADHD. She chooses to remain off medication and has learned a lot of coping skills over the years but living with her soon to be ex for all those years I think has her ingrained to assume certain behaviors on the parts of others. I do not think she understands herself very well and why others act the way they due in response to her behaviors.

I had been pushing for some answers because her feelings toward me were confusing me to say the least. She admitted she loves me but can't "drop the sword" and say it but also says not romantically now. She says she doent think she can feel that way for a long time but at the same time also has made statements that make me think otherwise but that she needs to take care of things first. So I am still confused and don't know how I should feel.

I have been reading alot on ADD, I know way too much about BPD which has similarities. I can see from what she has told me where her ADHD has casused her so much disappointment in her life. I can see where our relationship went to a point quicker than she intended and she realized that she had to get things done in order for it to continue and so hyperfocused on that and stopped focusing on me. I think she has put me on standby figuring that when she gets it done that we will continue then as if time isnt passing for me. Make sense? It could all be wishful thinking on my part.

How do you tell someone you love that they think differently than most other people and that their understanding of that and of themselves may explain the disappointments in their life and help them overcome them?

Steve

I highlighted in bold the comments that raise some serious red flags in this relationship. She may well have ADHD but that's not the major problem here. You should be able to pick up on it if you can objectively think about it.

It is very likely that she has BPD. I know the similarities between ADHD and BPD and I know the differences. My husband of 27 years has both disorders, my daughter has both disorders and I have inattentive ADD. I have a good friend who has a mild case of BPD, another friend who has ADHD, bipolar and BPD, my sister has been in two relationships with guys who had BPD, my neighbor's daughter has the disorder, along with ADHD. I know several others with the disorder as well and I've read more than a dozen books on the disorder, including psychological texts from experts on the disorder.

Totally baffled that we were arguing, behavior that doesn't make sense, everything wonderful and then she backs off...You mentioned several times that you are confused. That describes BPD, not ADHD. And I've seen a lot of ADHD. Many of those with BPD have ADHD as well, not at all unusual.

A relationship with someone who has BPD can start out as wonderful, perfect, you feel like soul-mates and you are perfect for each other. Yet something is telling you that something isn't right. "baffled" "doesn't make sense" "confused" Listen to that inner voice. It is telling you something. Go to bpdcentral.com and read up on the "Articles" section especially, "How a BPD relationship evolves".

This is not the relationship you want. You are a caring person as are many people who become unwittingly involved with someone with BPD. Not that there isn't help available for someone with the disorder but I'm sure you know all the pitfalls that go along with it.

I have a very strong feeling about this. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said anything. Please consider this carefully. I know you want to help--I've been there too many times myself--but there are some things beyond your ability to "heal".

I am sorry that you have to experience this. If I could wave my magic wand, it wouldn't work this way. But my magic wand is broken.

ADDMagnet
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  #5  
Old 02-09-09, 09:57 AM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

As others have written, there are red flags all over every one of your relationships. Really, there are stable, nice women out there who aren't users. Get whatever help you need to find out why you are so attracted to women who have massive problems, and break the pattern.

I could be way off base here, but has anyone ever mentioned Aspergers to you?
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Old 02-10-09, 12:40 AM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Thanks for the comments everyone,

Aspergers nope I dont have that, my empathy quotient is very high, in fact I mirror moods so much that I dislike angry people and yes can get used readily with pulled heartstrings which is one reason why I tend to keep people at a distance. I am also far from clumsy, I work construction on the edges of buildings and scaffolding is just a big jungle gym to me.

As for my friend I was thinking BPD but she has been the exact opposite of a user. She is highly functional with job that would stress anyone out. She doesnt seem to match the DSM-IV for borderline either but does match what I have read for ADHD and she said she was diagnosed ADD. I have read that BPD may arise out of non medicated ADHD and high constant stress may be a trigger.

If I thought she was BPD I would have run like hell. I have read tons of stuff myself. I am BPD gunshy and look for the signs. That was part of my confusion because some things were similar but so much didnt match at all. Like I said she has a lot on her plate and is very functional so I think she is focusing on one after another on a schedule or as her phone rings grabbing her attention. It is wearing her out and she cant recharge.

We argued online IMing not in real life so I believe that she went immediately on the defensive based on history with her soon to be ex. based on words that I used that she had heard over and over in person with him. She couldn't see me and I couldnt see her.

I do not think we are soul mates and never did in fact I think the concept is bogus.

I really appreciate the concern for my welfare I have seen in these replies. Believe me when I say I have no desire to get myself in another mess like the ones I was in with the women I have been involved with. I have had enough cake pans through windows, clothes for carpeting, beer bottles upside the head, a years take home pay being run up on credit cards and a whole myriad of other things that I could talk about.

My daughter is in a great situation, her mom is now happy and functioning better than ever and has a close to perfect man for her in her life. I did a lot of the dirty work and put up with a lot to get her to this point but it was worth it in the end. What should I have done? Divorced her took my child and watch her crumble?

This is one of 80 plus that I wrote while with the woman with BPD plus. I got out finally I have no desire to return.

A Private Hell

He heard a cry
From far away
Filled with mystery

It beckoned him
Into a place
Where he couldn't see

Oh see he could
But vision blurred
Beset by a spell

From an angel
With broken wings
Caught up in her hell

He was blinded
He saw no flames
Just the angel there

His heart was caught
For there she was
Answer to his prayer

And for a time
The vision held
He thought all was fine

His heart did sing
He was happy
Living in her shrine

Ultimately
It is the case
Illusion will fail

And so it was
There came the day
When ripped was the veil

Flames rebounded
Thus seared his soul
Ready to destroy

Caught in her hell
He also was
Agony for joy

The angel too
She was now changed
Truly devil's spawn

The man was lost
He had no will
Just her captured pawn

He tried to fight
To get away
But couldn't last for long

He was betrayed
By his own heart
Trapped by siren song

Now both are caught
By hellfire flames
Keeping them in pain

Their lover's waltz
Of hurt and hate
They can not abstain

Eternally
Destined to be
In their private hell

Unless he finds
The strength to leave
He knows all to well
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Old 02-10-09, 09:57 AM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

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Originally Posted by justadadnow View Post
Aspergers nope I dont have that, my empathy quotient is very high, in fact I mirror moods so much that I dislike angry people
Uh, it is a fallacy that people on the autism spectrum don't have empathy, The problem is that they feel so much empathy it is overwhelming, and they shut down. And I know several people on the spectrum who cannot deal with any disagreements, anger, or arguments, possibly for the reason you mention.

Good luck with however things go.
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Old 02-10-09, 10:52 PM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

[quote=justadadnow;698096]Thanks for the comments everyone,

As for my friend I was thinking BPD but she has been the exact opposite of a user. She is highly functional with job that would stress anyone out. She doesnt seem to match the DSM-IV for borderline either but does match what I have read for ADHD and she said she was diagnosed ADD. I have read that BPD may arise out of non medicated ADHD and high constant stress may be a trigger.

If I thought she was BPD I would have run like hell. I have read tons of stuff myself. I am BPD gunshy and look for the signs. That was part of my confusion because some things were similar but so much didnt match at all. Like I said she has a lot on her plate and is very functional so I think she is focusing on one after another on a schedule or as her phone rings grabbing her attention. It is wearing her out and she cant recharge.

Justadadnow,
I'm not sure what you meant by the phrase, "she is the exact opposite of a user" Would you clarify? Did you mean that she doesn't use people?

There can be quite a difference between a low-functioning BPD and one that is high-functioning. My husband had a six-figure salary for a time and there are BP's who are doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. Someone can be extremely successful and functional in their job and many areas of their life. The "BPD behavior" is sometimes only seen by those closest to them--those whom they are emotionally tied to. You are not usually emotionally tied to your job so you may not show any symptoms there. Granted, someone who is low-functioning is more noticeable. I know of a few people with BPD who were told that they couldn't have BPD because they had a job. I haven't seen that listed in the DSM!!

First off, you need not self mutilate or threaten and/or attempt suicide in order to meet the diagnosis. There are 9 criteria and only 5 are needed for a diagnosis. Just as someone with classic ADHD who is hyperactive and impulsive can look totally different than someone with inattentive ADHD who is quiet and shy, there are differences in individuals with BPD. I've had people tell me that my husband can't be borderline because he's a man and only women have BPD. Another misconception--the latest studies show the rate of BPD to be equivalent in men and women. And I know quite a few men who have the disorder.

One problem that I have with the DSM criteria is that it is written in terms that are hard for the non-psychologist to envision. The picture that most people, and many psychiatrists as well, have of someone with BPD is a textbook, stereotypical version that fits very well for a female who is low-functioning. Unfortunately, many have a hard time seeing beyond that type. Again, ADHD is a good example. A girl who is daydreamy and doesn't cause any behavioral problems in school is not likely to be noticed as having inattentive ADHD so they often get overlooked. The common picture is the hyperactive and impulsive boy who gets into trouble. Society is only beginning to see the different ways in which ADHD can manifest itself. And knowledge of BPD is way behind that of ADHD in the general population and even many in the mental health field.

Stress is most definitely a trigger but stress on the job may or may not affect someone with BPD. Stress in their "personal" life is different from stress on the job. And each person has different coping skills and some are better at hiding their feelings from others a good deal of the time. Oh, and I almost forgot, if someone with BPD is "in love" or in a new relationship, symptoms may not appear during that stage. The chemicals produced in the brain when you are "in love" alleviate the usual negative emotions.
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Old 02-14-09, 06:48 AM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Hi,
My purpose coming here is kinda moot anyway. She has completely faded away from me. No matter ADHD, PSTD or BPD she also suffers from depression. It is obvious as I have suffered it for short periods and seen it right in front of me most of my life.

I can clear up some things however. The woosh was as it seemed to me, in real life not communicatively. That has slowly fizzled.

I see a correlation between her chosen life constantly barraging her. She does have a lot of personal stress due to how her divorce has gone, her children also have emotional issues and her parents health is bad. Her dad may be dying.

The ADHD is very apparent to me. BPD I would really have to stretch to see any signs. She has never tried to use me for anything. I see a clear pattern of stubborness expectation and disappointment in any case which is a recipe for misery no matter who you are. I think for a time her symptoms of depression were aleviated by our meeting but the rules she placed on herself because of her situation forced us into a communication environment that she isn't equpped to handle very well without the assumptive carry over from a long history of face to face exchanges. I am a very fluid free thinker who sees the hopes of many possible futures so nothing is etched in stone with me. Sure i get disappointed but try to make the best of any situation.

"Well lets see if this and that are true then lets do the other" as opposed to "this is what IS supposed to happen and if it doesn't then I am going to be some negative emotion"

Thanks for the autism thoughts in my case. I have known that I am a bit different than most and though I am not autistic nor have aspergers it did lead me to what I have called myself for a long time. A "mirror" of other people. It is quite possible I have some extra interconnections between my frontal lobes that makes me sensitive to strong emotions both positive and negative. I do know that I am at least slightly schitzotypal which is understandable from how my dad was growing up. In any case I have my own coping mechanisms that have kicked in and where I still worry for her I do know there is little I can do. I easily saw "a hope of a possible future" but also a future for her without hope and only she could choose which. I am fine or will be soon. She on the other hand I dont think will be happy for quite some time if ever.

Thanks again take care. I may show up in the parents of section.

I walk through the door and hear my daughters whole day in about 3.6 seconds. My friend thought it strange that I didnt recognize her ADHD. Why would I? I live with a EMO annie hall dressing, anime drawing, singer, actress, social butterly, talking on the phone while simultaniously texting on her cell, having 4 IM clients open on her laptop with an Ipod in her ear and the TV on. Room is a pigsty and her grades haven't been the greatest lately since she insists on doing homework by herself but she is a joy and is my responsibility.
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Old 02-14-09, 08:56 PM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Quote:
Originally Posted by justadadnow View Post
Hi,
My purpose coming here is kinda moot anyway. She has completely faded away from me. No matter ADHD, PSTD or BPD she also suffers from depression. It is obvious as I have suffered it for short periods and seen it right in front of me most of my life.

The ADHD is very apparent to me. BPD I would really have to stretch to see any signs. She has never tried to use me for anything.

I'm sorry that things didn't work out the way you had hoped.

I did want to comment on your remark that she never tried to use you. You do not have to "use someone" in order to have BPD. That may have been your experience with a particular person who had BPD but it is not a BPD characteristic. People of all types can "use" others. In fact, someone with ASPD would be the most likely to "use" others since they are more likely to have no empathy. Or someone with an addiction or substance abuse dependency who will do anything to get the substance they abuse.
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Old 02-18-09, 06:29 AM
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Re: befuddled conundrum, looking for insight, sorry very long post

Hi,

OK in looking back rationally I can see where I was hoping against hope. She does have BPD.

The whole user thing didn't come from me but in a reply to "wifeof". I do tend to agree with the assessment though. If the basic pattern is to make you feel like their "soul mate" and then flip you around on the roller coaster in essence you are getting used. From what I have read it is a matter of filling a need and their needs are always more important. Manipulation and control are standard traits and that is using someone whether it was the intent or not.

In looking back rationally though these 2 women are different there are some very striking similarities including needing a reason for contact. After several days I was contacted Sunday, the conversation was full of pleasantries but then came the " Hey while I have you here can you help me with." She had an excuse to end it soon after. I can see other times where this pattern stays consistent. The parameters of each woman's situation being different that particular trait showed up differently.

I do wish there was some way she could get help but I don't forsee it any time soon. I anticipate her turmoil continuing without her understanding that she is her own Lucy pulling out the football on herself. It may have been more subtle but she has basically pushed away the person that cared the most. I am sure she will cycle again and get hurt.

Thanks again
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