To my suprise 5-htp is working big time for my ADHD!

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by Lunacie

Guess I was deficient in omega 3 fatty acids, and still am. I've run out of my
fish oil supplements twice in the last 10 years and it was really scary to
return to the life I used to live ... no, not live, suffer through.

From what I've been seeing, we are all deficient in omega 3's. There's apparently a balancing act between the 3's, 6's, and 9's...
Corn is predominately Omega 6. I probably don't need to tell you to look at the ingredient list of just about anything we eat. High fructose corn syrum, dextrose, corn syrup... omega 6.
What do you think we feed our cattle? Steak, milk, etc. omega 6.
Grass fed cattle will have much higher levels of omega 3 than their corn fed counterparts. Google it, you'll find a ton of info on this stuff.

[SFBurgundy]

According to the book, mood cure by Julia Ross, about 15% of people can't tolerate 5htp but get on well with l-trytophan which is a precursorer to 5htp.
5htp can only be converted to seratonin whereas if you take l-trytophan it can be used to produce 5htp or be used for other things (not sure what) but it means serotonin is inly produced if needed.

[spunkysmum]

Originally Posted by selita

Yes, there's a risk of Serotonin Syndrome any time you combine two serotonergic meds or supplements. Watch out for the symptoms as it can be life-threatening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

I am pretty sure I had it once. It was awful. I felt like I wanted to die.

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by SFBurgundy

According to the book, mood cure by Julia Ross, about 15% of people can't tolerate 5htp but get on well with l-trytophan which is a precursorer to 5htp.
5htp can only be converted to seratonin whereas if you take l-trytophan it can be used to produce 5htp or be used for other things (not sure what) but it means serotonin is inly produced if needed.

Not sure about the 15% number, but it was most likely referring to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptop...ements_and_EMS
When Mood Cure was written in 2004, l-trytophan wasn't available on the US market. It was only made available again this year.


taurine --> GABA
tryptophan --> niacin
tryptophan -->5HTP (+ vit B6) -->serotonin (in GI tract)
tryptophan -->5HTP (crosses blood-brain barrier + vit B6) -->serotonin (in brain)
serotonin-->melatonin
phenylalanine --> tyrosine
tyrosine --> L-dopa -->dopamine
tyrosine --> melanin
dopamine -->norepinephrine

Regarding 5HTP vs tryptophan, it really depends on what is causing a serotonin deficiency in the first place. Let's say that your body lacks the ability to convert tryptophan to 5HTP and that is why you are serotonin deficient... in that case, the tryptophan is not used and you remain serotonin deficient.

What if your body does't efficiently use 5HTP (in the brain), and that is why you are serotonin deficient, you'll still be deficient taking the supplement for 5HTP as well.

Perhaps the problem is that your body is converting all of the tryptophan to niacin, in which case, no serotonin.

Maybe all of the 5HTP ends up being used by the pineal gland and very little makes it to the brain to be converted to serotonin.

Another possibility is an insulin failure of some sort, such as diabetes, which results in tryptophan not making it to the brain (serotonin is dependent on sugar and carbs).

As I said before, supplements will only help if you have a deficiency... but then, you need to figure out what mechanism is causing the deficiency. Taking supplements won't help anyone if they don't make it to the brain to begin with. Once there, your body might just reabsorb them all if it's a failure of the reuptake system causing the deficiency.

[Drewbacca]

Found a great link if anyone was looking for supporting evidence for tryptophan supplementation http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

[meadd823]

I tried 5-htp one time and after a week on 200mg I discovered my personal version of mania - I am not bi-polar but I do have several first degree relatives that do - The wall that seperates clinically diagnosable bi-polar and not bipolar is thinner than many would like to consider

To be fair many antidepressants also have the same effect on me - It would not be so bad if I was a pleasant manic but my family and friends are not so lucky

To be fair 5-htp induced mania is my personal experience and is not a common side effect of this supplement. I only mention it so those reading that also have bipolar first degree relatives may consider this possibility during their decision regarding use of this supplement. It may help to alert those closest to them so any behavior changes will be properly understood in hopes that the supplement can be stopped before all the credit cards are maxed out!

[meadd823]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Found a great link if anyone was looking for supporting evidence for tryptophan supplementation http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2077351/

How would taking the tryptophan be any different than simply increasing niacin intake - niacin is also supposed to help with decreasing one cholesterol also - I can take niacin but I have never taken it specifically outside of b-complex vitamins but I am considering it seeing as I had a adverse reaction to the 5-htp and thyptophan cost more - I don;t mind paying more if I understand the why one supplement works over the vitamin

Tryptophan supplements sound like the perfect thing for my husband who won't take prescription medication but swears by vitamins - he would consider a supplement He has tried melatonin with good results but some side effects - Naturally consistency is a challenge in our house hold but I would give a body part {his} to help with his aggressive driving and over all tendency to baitch about every thing - It is becoming a huge problem in our marriage!

[Drewbacca]

Originally Posted by meadd823

How would taking the tryptophan be any different than simply increasing niacin intake - niacin is also supposed to help with decreasing one cholesterol also - I can take niacin but I have never taken it specifically outside of b-complex vitamins but I am considering it seeing as I had a adverse reaction to the 5-htp and thyptophan cost more - I don't mind paying more if I understand the why one supplement works over the vitamin

Niacin, serotonin, and melatonin don't have the ability to cross the blood-brain barrier, while the precursors tryptophan and 5HTP can cross the barrier.

A direct niacin supplement works because it's needed for the digestive system (it's necessary for a reaction to food poisoning, niacin/B3 will induce vomiting and diarrhea if you eat something that is poisonous, so too much niacin could possibly cause such a reaction due to over stimulation). According to some websites I've read, you will possibly have issues for the first week or so while the body adjusts. If diarrhea continues after a week, the dosage is too high.

Melatonin works b/c the pineal gland is not on the brain side of the barrier.

Serotonin does not work as a direct supplement, because it can't cross the barrier. It would all just end up in your GI tract. In the GI tract, it is responsible for muscle movement. Excessive amounts will result in nausea, and diarrhea.

To answer your question, niacin supplements won't directly increase the levels of serotonin in your brain. Only 5HTP and tryptophan do that. However, by taking a niacin supplement, more of the tryptophan will be available for serotonin and melatonin use by the body... so it would have a similar effect, assuming that your body can adequately make all of the conversions. Also, assuming that you are deficient to begin with.

My personal guess is that most of us are suffering from a niacin deficiency. There is little niacin to be gained from corn, the basis of the modern American diet. So, my assumption is that the body would need to make niacin, thus reducing the available precursors for melatonin and serotonin. Niacin deficiency could very well look similar to a serotonin deficiency if it is robbing the body of vital resources. The body is made up of a bunch of feedback mechanisms which balance out when there is too much of one thing and too little of another... but I don't have much knowledge on how one deficiency effects all of the other systems of the body. I'm not even sure that such knowledge exists, actually. The more I read up on this stuff, the more I realize how pathetic our modern medical knowledge is.

Anyways, it takes 60mg of tryptophan for the body to produce 1mg of niacin. I'm still looking for other dose equivalencies. So figure, if you take 100mg of niacin (and assuming that your body makes 100mg less niacin in response), then your body has an additional 6000mg of tryptophan (derived from food protein) to do something else with. Without an insulin response, the additional tryptophan won't ever get to the brain.

100 mg of 5HTP is equivalent to 500 mg L-tryptophan.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/niacin/

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/3/4/271.pdf

http://naturalmedicinejournal.net/pdf/nmj_dec09_tp.pdf

[Chicchick]

Since starting my supp. regimen along with meds (started 5-HTP a week ago, everything else two days ago) I seem to notice a nootropic effect. Like my IQ his risen 20 points! Even a few days after starting 5-HTP I started to see that. Doesn't do much else for me though as far as mood/energy goes.

[425runner]

I took the 5-HTP 50mg before lunch today and around 4 pm started having a panic attack! I haven't had one in a year! I don't know if it's the 5-HTP or the fact that I went off stims today but felt really hyper and restless, couldn't sit still, felt like I couldn't breathe and was going crazy.....scary shi* so Klonopin took care of it but not gonna mess with 5-HTP anymore.

[Lunacie]

Originally Posted by 425runner

I took the 5-HTP 50mg before lunch today and around 4 pm started having a panic attack! I haven't had one in a year! I don't know if it's the 5-HTP or the fact that I went off stims today but felt really hyper and restless, couldn't sit still, felt like I couldn't breathe and was going crazy.....scary shi* so Klonopin took care of it but not gonna mess with 5-HTP anymore.

That's the problem with making more than one change at a time.

You can't tell which change caused the effect, either negative or positive.

Better to make one change at a time, for at least a few days, to gauge the effect of that one change.