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  #1  
Old 01-03-08, 10:42 PM
-MiZ- -MiZ- is offline
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scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

hi guys,

im having a chuffin nightmare getting diagnoised in the uk for ADHD, ive had one phycologist appointment and 3 phyciatrist appointments and still no other diagnosis than depression, was told that one of the reasons im not a clear cut case is that i managed to concentrate and score highly on a IQ test and have run my own small business though not amazingly professionally.

so at the end of the last appointment i decided to ask a few questions about his experiance to my horror i found he'd only dealt with 15 cases in the last 5 years and had no formal training other than chatting with work colleges, finding this disapointing i asked to get a tertitary refereal to a adhd clininc, 50 miles up the road in bristol and was flatly refused as it was not there policy to give appointments out of the area so im stuck with a shrink that i now dont trust or paticually like and proably vice versa, that cant spot what i think is a clear cut case when its sat infront of him

so anyway i just wanted to run his reasons past u guys to see if this was a logical reason for suspecting im not a clearcut case? and i guess ask if the diagnosis and treatment are worth the fight?
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Old 01-03-08, 11:10 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

I think the diagnosis and treatment are certainlly worth the fight.

However, I know little about the healthcare system in the UK. If he does not think you have ADHD, are you then not allowed to seek out another Dr who might have more experience in this area?

I would hope that would be an option for you, because it could just be that he has personal feelings against this condition. Some very well educated people still consider ADHD to be a psuedo dissorder if you will. I do not agree with their ignorant point of view, but I would be a fool not to admit that there are many people in high positions in society who share that point of view.

I hope you are able to get a second opinion, and I also wish you will keep us posted on how things unfold on that end.
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Last edited by lars; 01-03-08 at 11:28 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-03-08, 11:21 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

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Originally Posted by -MiZ- View Post
was told that one of the reasons im not a clear cut case is that i managed to concentrate and score highly on a IQ test and have run my own small business though not amazingly professionally.
Many people with ADHD have high IQs and often do well as entrepreneurs.

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so at the end of the last appointment i decided to ask a few questions about his experiance to my horror i found he'd only dealt with 15 cases in the last 5 years and had no formal training other than chatting with work colleges
As someone else at the mercy of a public health system and a world-wide shortage of psychiatrists, this is all too common. I was lucky, but my daughter was assessed by someone who told her she would have outgrown it by her age (18).

In Canada we are allowed to travel to access medical care - actually we are expected too whether it's inconvenient or not. Hang in there. Are there patient advocate services where you live?
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Old 01-03-08, 11:43 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

Sounds to me like this is not the right person to see. And yes, people with high IQ's can have ADD as well. They are generally better at working around some of the symptoms, and for a longer time, so that the ADD might be diagnosed later.
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Old 01-03-08, 11:48 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

Man, sorry to hear it. I assume you have good reason for seeking a formal diagnosis? Meaning something makes you think you might have it? If so, it's definitely worth it to get a real assessment. Is it feasible to pay out of pocket for the clinic? Then go back to your psychiatrist with the results from the clinic?

Would it make a difference if you stressed that you need a referral to a specialist as opposed to a general psychiatrist? I mean, the whole point is that your doctor is unsure - so who better to clear things up than a specialist? Depending on your insurance plan, that may work.

And no, "chatting with colleagues" isn't the kind of training that inspires great confidence. But you don't necessarily need a specialist or a genius (my doctor is neither, and he's perfectly competent). If the clinic doesn't work out, can you get to yet another doctor in your area? This one just sounds unfamiliar with the whole thing. Were the 3 psychiatrist appointments with the same person, or 3 different doctors?

To answer your question, a high IQ and having run a business don't sound like logical reasons for suspecting your case is not clear-cut. Sounds pretty silly to me, actually. What are the diagnostic criteria in the UK anyway? I've read a number of posts about reticent UK doctors, what gives?
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Old 01-03-08, 11:49 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

No. People with ADD are not Low IQ. (Except in the case of, say, FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome), where ADD is about one of their 10 problems.)

In fact, those of us with higher IQs (and no 'behavioural' symptoms to bring us to a teacher's attention) tend to be "missed" diagnostically.

That is how so many ADDers make is to ADDulthood undiagnosed.

===================

People can also have high level IQs and yet be hampered by having serious Executive Function (EF) deficits. (That seems to be a 'more typical' ADD presentation, IME.) An example I would give is of the 'absent minded professor': great LT memory, but poor WM/STM and poor EF.

But no one talks about EF...

EF is the "brain's manager".
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Old 01-04-08, 01:38 AM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

Hogwash. I'm one of them. Seek out a doctor more well-versed on the subject; it will be well worth the effort in the long run.
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Old 01-04-08, 09:46 AM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

I'll just support what's already been said here; a high IQ does not rule out ADHD. In fact, I'd almost say it's one step closer to confirming it! ADHD folks are incredibly intelligent people, but there's just this 'wall' in front of us that prevents us from showing it.
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Old 01-04-08, 05:47 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

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ADHD folks are incredibly intelligent people ...
.. and fun, and caring, and sweet, and creative, and, and, and ...
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Old 01-04-08, 06:44 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

If your doc thinks your high IQ rules out ADD, you definitely need a new doc.
One of the most frustrating things for ADDers can be the fact of having a high IQ and not being able to "live up to that potential."
When I was tested, we were informed that I had the highest IQ of anyone who'd passed through my school at that point. Higher than the test could gauge, apparantly. It certainly doesn't mean I don't have ADD, but things like that kept me from being properly diagnosed until much later in life.

ADD does not mean low IQ and high IQ doesn't mean squat about how you're able to function in general. :P
Find a doc who knows more able ADD and can actually help you.
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Old 01-04-08, 07:09 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

I have the same experience. On my primary school IQ test I scored in the 100th percentile. Other test on high school and later indicated IQ > 145. But ADD limits what you can actually do with intelligence .. like studying on the university. I managed ok until about 8th grade, and then I had to start paying attention and my grades fell.
Having a high IQ has kept me too from being properly diagnosed much earlier.
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Old 01-04-08, 07:34 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

High IQ does NOT rule out ADD....I'm just diagnosed with Adult ADD and have an (average) IQ in the 94th percentile....some areas were 99th...the assessor said that without ADD I'd likely be higher. I've always had high IQ..I can remember being assessed as a primary aged child and being singled out as eligible for MENSA so my years of alchohol and good living must have knocked the edge off things somewhat.

I absolutely sucked at the working memory tests......I was sooooo bad it was a joke and both the assessor and i ended up giggling as I struggled.

Getting assessed for Adult ADD in the UK is very difficult.....unless you go to an Adult ADD specialist privately.

While not 100% satisfied with some of the comments my psychiatrist made at least he knew what he was talking about.

It cost about 700 for the assessment....and it was money well spent.......because now I can look people straight in the eye and say....."Go on make my day....tell me you think ADHD's just bad parenting and diet......!"

kilt
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Old 01-04-08, 08:32 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

I have never taken a proctored IQ test, but the internet tests Ive taken put me in the 125-135 range, which would be pretty good if its not too inflated, but not genius like rest of you.

I did an ADD experiment at my university about 6 months ago through the psychology dept. where they paid me to take about 3 hours worth of tests and if I qualified, (which i did) then I was also supposed to have my brain scanned while performing mental tasks(which I flaked out on). Some of the tests were were from the welscher intelligence scale and others involved verbal and visual memory sequencing. I was curious how I performed so I had the lady give me a run down of my scores.

I ended up doing really well on the matrix reasoning portion, only missed one and got the last one, which she said was rare. I also kicked *** on the verbal section. On the other hand, like the kilted_scotsman, I did horribly on all of the memory tests (and there were a lot), particularly the one where I had to recite number strings that she gave to me verbally. I also did poorly on the algebra section.

She said that the overall pattern of my scores were congruent with the add population, which leads me to believe that a comprehensive intelligence test such as this one would be very helpful in identifying people with ADD, because in my case I obviously had a level of intelligence in some areas that did not correspond to others. Maybe some ADD people are remarkably intelligent all across the board, but in general I think lot of us will have a high IQ which is the result of certain a could lead to us being overlooked as potential ADDers, but still be very deficient in some areas. Particularly short term memory, which I know has always lead me to come off as less intelligent than I really am.

I never found out what the experiment was trying to prove, but I wouldn't be surprised if was based on finding that people people with ADD have similar cognitive affinity's and deficiencies, so perhaps having a high IQ coupled with an above average working memory should disqualify a person from being dxed with ADD.
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Old 01-04-08, 08:55 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

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perhaps having a high IQ coupled with an above average working memory should disqualify a person from being dxed with ADD.
lol, mb it does, because I think that one of the core ADD issues is having a poor working memory?
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Old 01-04-08, 11:04 PM
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Re: scoring high on an IQ test rules out ADHD?

andersoj, I enjoyed your post. I was identified on IQ test taken early in school as being gifted (I skipped Grades 3 and 6) but now when I take the internet IQ tests, I score lower.

I think the reason for this is decreased self esteem accumulated over yrs of struggling with add symptoms, and also, having performance anxiety that has definitely gotten worse with age.

I know I am very intelligent but, man, I sure don't feel like it most of the time these days.
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