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Old 07-07-11, 06:49 AM
SpazKat SpazKat is offline
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Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

In an effort to take yet another Adderall holiday, I stopped for a couple of days and took L-Tyrosine instead (never took it before...they were 500 mg capsules - I took 2 per day...one in morning, one at night before bed). Once I started back up on the Adderall, I did not take anymore L-Tyrosine. A couple of days have passed since then.

Here's the weird thing....

When I went back on Adderall, my tolerance for it definitely went WAY down. That's fine, except...

Um, it's past 5:45 am and I never got to sleep last night. My last dose was very low yesterday of Adderall (lower than usual - about half my normal dosage), and my last dose was under 5 mg at before 4 pm. No caffeine, and I was SUPER exhausted, because.....

The day before, I couldn't get to sleep before 4 am. I only got about 2.5 hours of sleep, and now I haven't gotten ANY sleep this past night.

What the hey?

When I was off Adderall and on L-Tyrosine, I was horribly sleepy and groggy. All I wanted to do was sleep, and I actually got really good slumber. It truly stunk, though, because I couldn't hardly function very well. Just getting out of bed was a monumental effort of great magnitude. My brain didn't want to function on anything. Prior to this, I was on a pretty good sleeping schedule.

It's when I got back on Adderall a couple of days ago that I started having this insomnia (whereas, the Adderall never affected me like this for the past couple of months ). I noticed that I didn't need as much Adderall for therapeutic effects (which is awesome), so I have taken LESS than I normally do/am prescribed...and suddenly I am MORE alert, awake, and although my body HURTS from being so tired, my brain feels really alert/wired the later it gets? And sleep just doesn't want to come.

Would this be residual affects from the L-Tyrosine? Or did it just make me super sensitive to Adderall? Or is the L-Tyrosine hanging out in my system days afterwards?

This stinks!
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Old 07-07-11, 10:07 AM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

I've experimented with L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine + stimulants (Adderall and Ritalin) and never had anything like this happen...usually I would take 500-1000mg of L-Tyrosine in the morning, and it would significantly ease the Adderall comedowns, but I'd still be able to sleep at night. However, I don't remember the Adderall actually working BETTER with the Tyrosine. Maybe you're more sensitive to the supplements than I am?

Just out of curiosity, what brand of L-Tyrosine are you taking? I used the GNC brand and I've heard that their stuff isn't so good, so maybe that's the reason I never got much of a kick from it...
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Old 07-07-11, 12:38 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

I took Bluebonnet brand (I think I got it from Walmart - no fancy brand names or anything like that) L-Tyrosine.

I finally fell asleep around 6:45 am, and got around 1 hour of sleep. I was lucky this morning that my kiddos slept in a little (until 7:45 am - very rare). Last night, I got an insane amount of work done, though. My body is soooo exhausted, but my brain is on super-alert-focus mode. What's even weirder is that normally, Adderall doesn't last very long in my system, so I am extremely confused as to why I feel this alert (as though I am still taking it) with so little sleep.

Maybe in some weird way, my tiredness is stimulating my mind? I was not drinking much caffeine, either, so I can't even pin-point anything that would cause this.

I figure that I am going to not take Adderall today, so as to rule out whether or not it is the culprit. I am definitely not taking anymore L-Tyrosine, either. Maybe my body just doesn't tolerate L-Tyrosine, and/or it was way too much for me.

I've never had this reaction with Adderall until now (and again - I am taking LESS of a dose than normal), so I am still at a loss as to why I haven't been able to sleep. Normally it calms me down to the point where I sleep pretty well. The only difference lately was the fact that I took L-Tyrosine for a couple of days on the medication holiday, although I guess that could be a coinkidink. I would blame stress, etc. on the lack of sleep, but my stress level is the same as it always has been (no worse, for sure), so...this is really weird. Also, I was careful not to take the 2 together at the same time, but maybe I need to wait several days for Adderall to exit my system completely before messing around with the L-Tyrosine.

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Old 07-07-11, 08:01 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpazKat View Post
I took Bluebonnet brand (I think I got it from Walmart - no fancy brand names or anything like that) L-Tyrosine.

I finally fell asleep around 6:45 am, and got around 1 hour of sleep. I was lucky this morning that my kiddos slept in a little (until 7:45 am - very rare). Last night, I got an insane amount of work done, though. My body is soooo exhausted, but my brain is on super-alert-focus mode. What's even weirder is that normally, Adderall doesn't last very long in my system, so I am extremely confused as to why I feel this alert (as though I am still taking it) with so little sleep.

Maybe in some weird way, my tiredness is stimulating my mind? I was not drinking much caffeine, either, so I can't even pin-point anything that would cause this.

I figure that I am going to not take Adderall today, so as to rule out whether or not it is the culprit. I am definitely not taking anymore L-Tyrosine, either. Maybe my body just doesn't tolerate L-Tyrosine, and/or it was way too much for me.

I've never had this reaction with Adderall until now (and again - I am taking LESS of a dose than normal), so I am still at a loss as to why I haven't been able to sleep. Normally it calms me down to the point where I sleep pretty well. The only difference lately was the fact that I took L-Tyrosine for a couple of days on the medication holiday, although I guess that could be a coinkidink. I would blame stress, etc. on the lack of sleep, but my stress level is the same as it always has been (no worse, for sure), so...this is really weird. Also, I was careful not to take the 2 together at the same time, but maybe I need to wait several days for Adderall to exit my system completely before messing around with the L-Tyrosine.

My unprofessional advice would be try an even smaller dose of Adderall? And definitely stop the L-Tyrosine if it's having that kind of effect on you. Maybe switch to L-Phenylalanine? It's the precursor to Tyrosine, so it metabolizes a little bit slower. Either way, don't give yourself a heart attack.
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Old 07-08-11, 10:39 AM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

ive been on l tyrosine about a month now and havnt noticed ne adverse effects. Havnt noticed much actually, besides maybe a decrease in fatigue. maybe you could try some good panax ginsing or ashwaganda if you want something to counter the stress
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Old 07-08-11, 01:25 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

Thanks, everyone. Not sure what it was, but yesterday I did not take my Adderall (and definitely not the L-Tyrosine), and I FINALLY got about 7 hours of sleep last night. Yay! I was super exhausted.

Maybe for some reason, L-Tyrosine is simply NOT for me. If I try it again, I'll have to check out some of the suggestions you guys had on here.

On a good note: I took my usual morning dose of Adderall today, and feel OK, now. I think I'll be fine, so long as I am able to continue getting the sleep I need. Running on hardly any sleep does not bode well with me, and I end up being completely useless in the long run. I'm going to skip my evening dose, just to be on the safe side, and just let my body chill out for a while. I know I'll be a space cadet at that time, so I've warned my family in advance. LOL! I usually do well with medication holidays, so this was a weird deal for me. Oh well - things rarely go the way I think they will, so this is just probably par the course in my life. LOL!
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Old 07-09-11, 01:18 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

interesting
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Old 07-27-11, 03:37 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

Some good reading on InteractionsGuide about l-tyrosine and stimulants...
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Old 08-01-11, 01:53 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

I have a theory, Just started reading up on this so it needs more research;
I read in the book "Ultra Mind Solution" that long term use of drugs like adderall reduces the body’s ability to produce dopamine on its own. The author recommended L-tyrosine as a way to increase dopamine levels.
L-tyrosine is supposed to increase dopamine, adderall is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
My theory is; the L-tyrosine taken on your drug holiday gave the adderall a bigger supply of dopamine to work with than what is was used to?
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Old 08-01-11, 05:16 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

I take 300 mg n-acetyl L-tyrosine twice a day along with 10 mg Adderall and works great! It prevents the crash or at least makes it more tolerable. I was able to get down from 70 mg Vyvanse to just 10 mg Adderall/day this way. Also, I gave up on Wellbutrin because tyrosine increases norepi/dopamine levels naturally.
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Old 08-01-11, 06:14 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

How do you time the doses?
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Old 03-01-13, 03:08 PM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

L tyrosine does increase my meds intensity, by a lot actually. It's hard to control it though in terms of therapeutic versus just plain nauseating. I'd recomend taking it on the come down but I never experience a come down on adderall. Tolerance actually was a good thing for me, no euphoria just calm, equals no come down.

In general taking a small dose is effective for replenishing dopamine if it's depleted. A lot of common foods contain it though. Like cheese and what not.

My general advice is to be careful, and I consider food sources safer as this way you get a healthy distribution of L tyrosine. Also if adderall causes insmnia, or amps you up than you are on the wrong med or wrong dose. I don't see this scenario working long term as adhd meds are meant to calm you. If they don't calm you then why take them? You'll become tolerant to everything else.
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Old 03-29-13, 04:32 AM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

There are so many inaccuracies in these posts that it is hard to know where to begin.
I understand that this is a forum for average folks sharing their experiences but please, verify EVERYTHING that you read here and accept almost nothing at face value.
First and foremost, BEFORE taking ANYTHING, ALWAYS check with your physician or prescriber whether or not that will adversely affect the medication that you have been prescribed. If they don't know, ask your dispensing pharmacist. Plus do your own research which should include Google, (NOT wikipedia) PubMed, and other scholarly substantiated peer reviewed materials, NOT opinions that are not based in scientific fact.
Next, someone's opinion is just that, if you take their opinion as fact, you might be sorely hurting and have no one to blame but yourself.
Next, if you have an adverse reaction to some medication it doesn't necessarily mean that the drug is bad for you...for instance, many prescribers look up how much to prescribe in a book. They might start you out at a very high dose of extended release stimulants which cause you severe problems. Does that mean that the drug was bad for you? Or that the prescribers knowledge was limited? Best to find a practitioner who specializes in ADHD, and ask lots of questions.
BTW, Adderall is NOT a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor, it is a Dopamine Releasing Agent (DRA) which is quite different. Again, don't take what is said here as fact.
Be careful of those who are pushing L-Tyrosine as a "natural" answer to ADHD without all those nasty side effects. If you carefully read the label of a highly advertised ADD natural supplement, they only list two ingredients, L-T and GABA and call the others A proprietary homeopathic blend...really? Do you want to put unknowns into your body? I'm not aware of any studies that show L-T and GABA as treating ADHD effectively...only self report claims.
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Old 03-29-13, 10:44 AM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

For the record, Adderall actually is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

"In reducing ADHD symptoms, the key function of Adderall is to block the reuptake of norepinephrine, dopamine, and serotonin into the presynaptic neuron and increase the release of these monoamines into the synaptic space....
Amphetamine also has the power to inhibit the enzyme that is responsible for the breakdown of neurotransmitters called monoamine oxidase. Inhibiting this process leads to the accumulation of dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin."

http://scholarspace.jccc.edu/honors_journal/vol3/iss1/2

Using L-tyrosine for an adderall holiday has never kept me from sleeping, but caffeine sometimes does. I've found that melatonin (2.5mg, sublingual) helps. It's important to only take it occasionally, though, because it can affect your body's natural melatonin production.

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Old 04-09-13, 11:40 AM
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Re: Totally weird question re: L-Tyrosine and Adderall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHD-Rx View Post
BTW, Adderall is NOT a Dopamine reuptake inhibitor, it is a Dopamine Releasing Agent (DRA) which is quite different. Again, don't take what is said here as fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsam75 View Post
For the record, Adderall actually is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
http://scholarspace.jccc.edu/honors_journal/vol3/iss1/2

You're both party right and partly wrong. Adderall (along with other amphetamine-based drugs) is both a dopamine releasing agent, and a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, and to some extent, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI).

Amphetamines act on the Dopamine Transporter (DAT) [among other mechanisms]. Usually, your DATs are working to pump dopamine back into the presynaptic membrane (the firing neuron). This is because once a neuron fires, the neurotransmitter binds to receptors on the postsynaptic membrane (the receiving neuron). This binding occurs rapidly, elicits a signal, and unbinds. The dopamine is either pumped back into the presynaptic neuron (the one that originally fired it) through DAT, or it diffuses away into the extracellular space (it just floats away and the body digests it on its own), or, the dopamine is digested right there in the synaptic space (between the 2 neurons) on purpose. This happens for an important reason.
The way neurons work, the firing of a signal (in this case dopamine) must elicit a response in the "receiving" neuron. This response is triggered by the binding of dopamine on receptors of the receiving neuron, which quickly unbinds. If dopamine just hung out there, you'd get a constant signal, causing a constant response. So the dopamine's gotta get out of the synapse. In people with ADHD, the dopamine is either not present at a high enough concentration, or is degraded too quickly, so a weaker signal is elicited in the "receiving" neuron.

OK. whats amphetamines got to do with it? Amphetamines reverse DAT, so instead of pumping dopamine back into the presynaptic (firing) membrane, it pumps it out. This blocks the reuptake of dopamine, and fires more dopamine at the same time [1,2]. Amphetamines also inhibit the activity of an enzyme called Monamine Oxidase (making it an MAOI). This enzyme degrades dopamine (although mostly back in the presynaptic neuron). In turn, you can see how everything kind of works together to keep the dopamine in the synapse for longer, and how being an MAOI stops degradation of dopamine within the presynaptic neuron, so that it has enough dopamine to fire. So in a sense you're both right.

HOWEVER, and this goes back to the original poster and anyone else who takes L-tyrosine with amphetamines. Amphetamines do over-secrete dopamine. Thats what gives you that sense of euphoria when youre not used to taking it. However, the euphoria goes away. Why? Because your postsynaptic neuron will downregulate for dopamine receptors. This means that to "normalize" the situation, your postsynaptic neuron will reduce the amount of receptors for dopamine on the postsynaptic membrane. So, think about it. If you're taking L-tyrosine, your body will be making more dopamine/norepinephrine -- to some extent. Now, if you couple the extra dopamine from taking L-tyrosine and the reversed DAT and action of MAOI, youre gonna get an even bigger burst of dopamine in the synapse, and a HUGE postsynaptic response. You'll think, "hey! this stuff's really working!" However, your postsynaptic neuron will read the even MORE increased synaptic dopamine levels and go "woah woah, we gotta downregulate!"... SO you'll end up with even less receptors for dopamine than you began with. And now your body's used to the level of dopamine you get from both amphetamine AND L-tyrosine. This will mean that if you stop taking them, you'll just be that much worse. If the cause of your ADHD is faulty regulation of receptors on the postsynaptic membrane, then you're just outta luck, because what's to say they'll go back to normal?

This down-regulation is why theres such a high risk for dependence/addiction. If you have ADHD, however, its a calculated risk, since although youll initially get "high", eventually the signal transmission will normalize. Therefore, with the drug, youll be where you should be. But when you start messing with physiological systems you don't understand (i.e. people's advice on the internet [who aren't professionals], those internet articles with no sound scientific backing, etc..), things could get ugly. Your physician didn't go to medical school for nothing-- talk to them about your options and before starting a supplement, etc...

[if anyone's interested or wants to confirm, the downregulation I mentioned involves the action of metabotropic and AMPA/NMDA receptors and is referred to as Long Term Depression, though not associated with psychological depression----but depression in the context of neural physiology.]

Samsam, the journal you're quoting isn't a real journal. Its something put on by a community college somewhere, and the article was written by a student.

[1] Johnson LA, Guptaroy B, Lund D, Shamban S, Gnegy ME (March 2005). "Regulation of amphetamine-stimulated dopamine efflux by protein kinase C beta". J. Biol. Chem. 280 (12): 10914–9
[2] Moore KE (June 1977). "The actions of amphetamine on neurotransmitters: a brief review". Biol. Psychiatry 12 (3): 451–62
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