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  #1  
Old 09-03-11, 03:38 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

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Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

In the Cree population of northwestern Ontario, for example, diabetes is found at a rate five times the Canadian national average, despite the traditionally low incidence of diabetes among native peoples.

The genetic makeup of the Cree people cannot have changed in a few generations.

The destruction of the Crees' traditional physically active way of life, the substitution of high calorie diets for their previous low-fat, low carbohydrate eating patterns and greatly increased stress levels are responsible for the alarming rise in diabetes rates.
Although heredity is involved in diabetes, it cannot possibly account for the pandemic among Canada's Native Peoples,or the rest of the North American population, for that matter.

We will see that in similar ways changes in society are causing more and more children to be affected by attention deficit disorder.

- Dr. Mate From the book Scattered

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  #2  
Old 09-03-11, 03:57 PM
Valter Valter is offline
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

You learn that in high school. It's hard to miss something that important. One of those topics teachers tend to repeat over and over.
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  #3  
Old 09-03-11, 03:59 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

It's true. The science is called epigenetics. For example scientists did a study of an isolated population that had records dating back hundreds of years of biological data and years of famine.

When a mother was pregnant during a famine year the famine gene would be activated and the child would come out being slim. In a non famine year the gene would it be activated in the foetus. And if it was a female fetus the genes of the eggs would be also set while it was still in the womb.
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Old 09-03-11, 04:01 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

From studying animals that live near Chernobyl that receive thousands the time of recommended radiation dosage they find that those animals have a gene that activated to protect them from radiation damage.
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  #5  
Old 09-03-11, 04:03 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

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There is a significant hereditary contribution to ADD--sensitivity,subject of the next chapter--but I do not believe any genetic factor is decisive in the emergence of ADD traits in any child.

Genes are codes for synthesis of the proteins that give a particular cell its characteristics structure and function.

They are, as it were, alive and dynamic architectural and mechanical plans.

Whether the plan becomes realized depends on far more than the gene itself.

It is determined, for the most part, by the environment.

To put it differently,

genes carry potentials inherent in the cells of a given organism.

Which of multiple potentials become expressed biologically is a question of life circumstances.
-Dr.Gabor Mate from Scattered P 49-50

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Old 09-03-11, 04:11 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

Again that is true.

Identical triplets with identical genes are raised in 3 different housholds.

Triplet 1 is raised in a household to minimize ADHD problems

Triplet 2 is raised in an average household.

Triplet 3 is raised in a high stress negative household maximizing ADHD

All three would still have ADHD but the amount if it expressed would depend on the environment they were raised in despite having identical genes

Triplet 1 could be sub-clinical triplet 2 could have moderate ADHD with comorvid minor depression and anxiety and triplet 3 could have severe ADHD with major depression and gad plus other comorbids

This was just a clear cut way of explaining gene expression because the environment can reduce or exasperate genetic conditions but to what extent no one knows yet
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Old 09-03-11, 04:30 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

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Were we to adopt the medical model--only temporarily, for the sake of argument--a genetic explanation by itself would still be unsuitable.

Medical conditions for which genetic inheritance are fully or even mostly responsible, such as muscular dystrophy, are rare.

"Few diseases are purely genetic," says Michael Hayden, a geneticist at the University of British Columbia and a world renowned researcher into Huntington's disease.

"The most we can say is that some diseases are strongly genetic"-Michael Hayden

Huntington's is a fatal degeneration of the nervous system based on a single gene that, if inherited, will almost invariably cause the disease.

But not always.

Dr.Hayden mentions cases of persons with the gene who live into ripe old age without any signs of the disease itself.

"Even in Huntington's there must be some protective factor in the environment," Dr.Hayden says
Dr.Mate From Scattered p 49

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  #8  
Old 09-03-11, 04:36 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

Sorry
Opening post taken from
Page 49 from the book Scattered

Last edited by mildadhd; 09-03-11 at 05:01 PM..
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Old 09-05-11, 02:19 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

I fail to see the point he was trying to make.

There is no underlying heredity in type 2 diabetes. Feed anyone enough sugar in their diet and they become diabetic. Unless he was talking specifically about type 1, which I doubt. His entire point is moot. People that eat junk get diabetes. Native populations are less likely to eat junk, not less likely to get diabetes.

ADHD has a physical neurological cause. Best diet in the world won't stop someone from getting type 1 diabetes. At some point a type 1's body just cant make insulin. Best upbringing in the world isn't going to magically activate the inactive parts of an ADHD brain either.

It is a physical problem than manifests psychological symptoms. Environment may help ease symptoms but in no way alters the practical severity of the physical differences in an ADHD brain.

A much better example would be to take a pair of blind twins.

Blind Twin A is raised in a household that caters to someone who is blind. He is given a cane, he is taught braille, echo location etc.

Blind Twin B is raised in a house full of sighted people, he is never taught braille or given a cane etc.

Is it then fair to claim Twin A is 'less blind' than Twin B?
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Old 09-05-11, 03:40 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KronarTheBlack View Post
Again that is true.

Identical triplets with identical genes are raised in 3 different housholds.

Triplet 1 is raised in a household to minimize ADHD problems

Triplet 2 is raised in an average household.

Triplet 3 is raised in a high stress negative household maximizing ADHD

All three would still have ADHD but the amount if it expressed would depend on the environment they were raised in despite having identical genes

Triplet 1 could be sub-clinical triplet 2 could have moderate ADHD with comorvid minor depression and anxiety and triplet 3 could have severe ADHD with major depression and gad plus other comorbids

This was just a clear cut way of explaining gene expression because the environment can reduce or exasperate genetic conditions but to what extent no one knows yet
If you clone a person twice and then put the three people into different
environments, you could expect to see whether or not the environment
makes a difference. But even identical triplets are not guaranteed to all
have the same genetic disorder.

Research indicates about 75% chance of both twins in a set having ADHD.
I haven't seen any research to show that if both twins have ADHD they
have identical severity of symptoms.
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As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
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Old 09-05-11, 07:08 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

It is a common misconception that identical twins have identical genes. They don't and that is why there are so many differences in twin studies. Identical twins have the same genes only at the moment the zygote splits into two. After that Mutations and external factors produce variants in the DNA.

I said in my post above that they were identical triplets with identical genes. I should have been more clear about stressing identical genes because That is what is needed to eliminate the internal factors leaving only the external ones.

The environments would manipulate the DNA causing genes to activate in a constructive or destructive manner either making the ADHD manifest in a neutral positive or negative way.
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Old 09-05-11, 07:12 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lookshiney View Post

A much better example would be to take a pair of blind twins.

Blind Twin A is raised in a household that caters to someone who is blind. He is given a cane, he is taught braille, echo location etc.

Blind Twin B is raised in a house full of sighted people, he is never taught braille or given a cane etc.

Is it then fair to claim Twin A is 'less blind' than Twin B?
That is a great example. Twin A appears to be less blind because the coping mechanisms allow them to function at a much higher level than twin B but in reality they are equally blind physiologically. That is why coping mechanisms and other aids are so important in ADHD
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Old 09-06-11, 05:01 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

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Originally Posted by lookshiney View Post
I fail to see the point he was trying to make.

There is no underlying heredity in type 2 diabetes. Feed anyone enough sugar in their diet and they become diabetic. Unless he was talking specifically about type 1, which I doubt. His entire point is moot. People that eat junk get diabetes. Native populations are less likely to eat junk, not less likely to get diabetes.

ADHD has a physical neurological cause. Best diet in the world won't stop someone from getting type 1 diabetes. At some point a type 1's body just cant make insulin. Best upbringing in the world isn't going to magically activate the inactive parts of an ADHD brain either.

It is a physical problem than manifests psychological symptoms. Environment may help ease symptoms but in no way alters the practical severity of the physical differences in an ADHD brain.

A much better example would be to take a pair of blind twins.

Blind Twin A is raised in a household that caters to someone who is blind. He is given a cane, he is taught braille, echo location etc.

Blind Twin B is raised in a house full of sighted people, he is never taught braille or given a cane etc.

Is it then fair to claim Twin A is 'less blind' than Twin B?





Here is the best link I have found to date about Epigenetic regulation and Epigenetic regulation in diabetes.

It gives good detail of how epigenetics works,

Quote:
Epigenetic regulation

"The term epigenetics is typically defined as heritable changes in gene expression that are not encoded directly within the DNA sequence of genes. Epigenetic changes are crucial for the development and differentiation of the various cell types in an organism. However, epigenetic states can become disrupted by environmental influences or during ageing, and the importance of epigenetic changes in the development of cancer and other diseases is increasingly being discovered....."
http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/4/1088.full


Also in the same link...above...

Quote:
Epigenetic regulation in diabetes

"Epigenetic modulating mechanisms have recently been established as a massive regulatory machine that cannot be ignored in searching for a new mechanistic understanding of metabolic syndrome, obesity and type 2 diabetes [50]. Type 2 diabetes is typically characterized by a combination of peripheral insulin resistance with an insulin secretion defect that varies in severity. The known mechanisms for disrupted insulin secretion in type 2 diabetes include accumulated damage caused by hyperglycaemia, hyperlipidaemia and oxidative stress in combination [51,52]..."
Looks like his moot is not so toom.
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Old 09-06-11, 06:30 PM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

FH,

Here is a link to some facinating working papers from The National Scientific Council on the Developing Child. They try to put science into terms that can be understood by everyone.

"Like the software in a computer’s operating system, the epigenome determines which functions the genetic “hardware” does and does not perform."

http://developingchild.harvard.edu/r...orking_papers/
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Old 09-07-11, 12:20 AM
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Re: Genes can be activated or turned off by factors in the environment.

[quote=angora;1166309]FH,

Here is a link to some facinating working papers from The National Scientific Council on the Developing Child. They try to put science into terms that can be understood by everyone.

"Like the software in a computer’s operating system, the epigenome determines which functions the genetic “hardware” does and does not perform."

http://developingchild.harvard.edu/r...orking_papers/


WOW!!!!!! What a link...

I mean

WOW!!!!!!


Thank You!
Angora, so much!!!
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