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Desoxyn methamphetamine hydrochloride (also known as desoxyephedrine)

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  #106  
Old 12-16-11, 12:19 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by Ameliese View Post
tambourine-man,

Your face looks familiar, are you on Wrongplanet as well?

I can't believe you got prescribed Desoxyn (methamphetamine) for your AS, unless you also have ADHD.

From what I've read, pharmaceutical methamphetamine has even more CNS stimulation and less PNS stimulation compared to dexamphetamine, but because of widespread abuse of the illicitly synthesized kind in numerous Western countries (including America), access to Desoxyn is extremely restricted and only reserved for the most hardcore cases of ADHD and narcolepsy...
Yep, I'm a columnist on Wrong Planet. I have ADHD as well, though it is hard to tell where one diagnosis ends and the other begins.

I just asked for Desoxyn. I didn't beg or manipulate my way to script. I just asked for one.
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  #107  
Old 12-16-11, 11:48 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

I will note that I am currently taking 15mg twice daily. Three doses would seem to be ideal in theory, but it doesn't quite work out that way in practice.

I don't want to go over 30mg a day. Doses under 10mg are very sedating. This may be due to Serotonin release.

15mg is spot on, but I don't think a third 15mg dose would prove beneficial. I'm not quite certain why, but Desoxyn just seems to be more effective when dosed twice daily.

Relax21, can you offer an explanation for this phenomenon?
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  #108  
Old 12-17-11, 01:27 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

First off thanks for sharing your experience! I have a question for you and anyone following or reading this thread or post. I have adhd, but also have narcolepsy. The narcolepsy adds a lot of sleepiness on top of adhd. I am sure my p-doc would prescribe me Desoxyn, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure it would take care of the narcolepsy. The smoothness you talk about tambourine-man sounds very nice. The focus while also being calm, awesome. Honestly, I have to have something with a great deal of "hold my eyes open" strength. I'm wondering if anyone reading this has narcolepsy and experience with Desoxyn. I'm curious about what your opinion(s) and anyone else's also. I'm not hijacking this thread, I'm just sure many read this and it is hard to find out first hand experience about Desoxyn....and especially in use for narcolepsy. Thanks again t-man! I'm glad things are going good for you.
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  #109  
Old 12-17-11, 01:51 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by PositivelyPositive View Post
First off thanks for sharing your experience! I have a question for you and anyone following or reading this thread or post. I have adhd, but also have narcolepsy. The narcolepsy adds a lot of sleepiness on top of adhd. I am sure my p-doc would prescribe me Desoxyn, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure it would take care of the narcolepsy. The smoothness you talk about tambourine-man sounds very nice. The focus while also being calm, awesome. Honestly, I have to have something with a great deal of "hold my eyes open" strength. I'm wondering if anyone reading this has narcolepsy and experience with Desoxyn. I'm curious about what your opinion(s) and anyone else's also. I'm not hijacking this thread, I'm just sure many read this and it is hard to find out first hand experience about Desoxyn....and especially in use for narcolepsy. Thanks again t-man! I'm glad things are going good for you.

I don't have narcolepsy so someone else will have to chime in here, but I'm inclined to say that Desoxyn is, unfortunately, not your best bet. If you are looking for a energizing effect, Adderall is more up your alley.

Teva/Barr Adderall IR is by far the most stimulating amphetamine tablet I have tried.
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  #110  
Old 12-17-11, 03:19 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post

Teva/Barr Adderall IR is by far the most stimulating amphetamine tablet I have tried.
Glad I'm not using Adderall then! I just took my morning dose of Dex (20 mg) and damn this has me all amped up. ugh
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Old 12-17-11, 04:46 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
I don't have narcolepsy so someone else will have to chime in here, but I'm inclined to say that Desoxyn is, unfortunately, not your best bet. If you are looking for a energizing effect, Adderall is more up your alley.

Teva/Barr Adderall IR is by far the most stimulating amphetamine tablet I have tried.
Adderall is what I'm prescribed right now. It was dexedrine, until the shortage. The dexedrine didn't make me as anxious, however the pns stimulation of adderall helps keep my eyes open, literally. Thanks for your outlook to my question. By the way, I was thinking if Desoxyn did work it would take considerably more because of my narcolepsy and I called about the prices. EXPENSIVE!
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  #112  
Old 12-17-11, 09:54 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by PositivelyPositive
By the way, I was thinking if Desoxyn did work it would take considerably more because of my narcolepsy and I called about the prices. EXPENSIVE!
To answer your question, Desoxyn was originally indicated for narcolepsy in the 40's, however it is no longer FDA approved for narcolepsy. My guess to why it's not approved for narcolepsy anymore is that narcoleptics tend to require higher doses to treat EDS and methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is a highly addictive substance.

I've read more currently conducted studies that found methamphetamine to work very well for treating narcolepsy. The typical dose that narcoleptics responded well to was 40 mg - 80 mg daily, which is much higher than what someone with ADHD or Obesity requires.

Desoxyn is only manufactured in 5 mg tablets which makes it suitable to be taken by children (or adults) for ADHD or treatment resistant obese patients. For obesity, a patient would take one 5 mg tablet 30 minutes before each meal, so, 15 mg daily. For ADHD, a patient would take 5 mg - 25 mg daily in divided doses.

Methamphetamine at 40 - 80 mg daily will definitely glue your eyelids open, there's no doubt about that. But as you said Desoxyn is expensive especially at 8 - 16 pills per day; 240 - 480 pills per month.
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  #113  
Old 12-17-11, 11:44 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by relax21 View Post
To answer your question, Desoxyn was originally indicated for narcolepsy in the 40's, however it is no longer FDA approved for narcolepsy. My guess to why it's not approved for narcolepsy anymore is that narcoleptics tend to require higher doses to treat EDS and methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is a highly addictive substance.

I've read more currently conducted studies that found methamphetamine to work very well for treating narcolepsy. The typical dose that narcoleptics responded well to was 40 mg - 80 mg daily, which is much higher than what someone with ADHD or Obesity requires.

Desoxyn is only manufactured in 5 mg tablets which makes it suitable to be taken by children (or adults) for ADHD or treatment resistant obese patients. For obesity, a patient would take one 5 mg tablet 30 minutes before each meal, so, 15 mg daily. For ADHD, a patient would take 5 mg - 25 mg daily in divided doses.

Methamphetamine at 40 - 80 mg daily will definitely glue your eyelids open, there's no doubt about that. But as you said Desoxyn is expensive especially at 8 - 16 pills per day; 240 - 480 pills per month.
Thanks! Excellent answer! Desoxyn is a tricky medication. I've never taken more than 15mg at a time, but I've noticed a substantial difference between a 10mg dose and a 15mg dose.

At 10mg I find Desoxyn very sedating. At 15mg it becomes much more stimulating. I would assume it would become far more stimulating than a comparable dose of Dexedrine at doses over those commonly prescribed. However, like relax21 said, such high doses just aren't feasible.
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  #114  
Old 12-18-11, 12:00 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
@Befitnessnow: Can you give us an update yet?
Sorry for the delay brother. I had an issue last week which prevented me from feeling comfortable starting the Dexosyn until my next appointment which was on Wednesday, so I have only had 3 days on 5mg 2x daily as of today.

Reading my previous post makes it sound as if I just straight up switched from Adderall to Desoxyn but it was actually like 2 months ago that I stopped taking Adderall due to frustration of not being able to get my scripts filled and was using another medication to help me out. Knowing Adderall is still in "shortage" and wanting to get back on stimulants is what made me make the decision to use Dexosyn (well, and this journal of course) and like you tambourine-man, I just simply asked my doctor. He doesn't care about stigma, he just cares about finding what works best.

That said, having a few months break made it a little bit easier to feel the subtle effects of Desoxyn even at this small dose. The best way I can compare it right now is with my first Adderall experience and now my first Desoxyn experience...

The first time I tried Adderall, it was only 5mg too and definitely had a euphoric rush. Yeah, the high that comes with starting an amphetamine for the first few days. But, it also hit me hard and left me even harder. About 3 1/2 hours after taking it, I just got hit with a fierce tiredness and by 4 hours later, my head was pounding. After a few weeks, those side effects lessened but with Adderall there is always a noticeable "kick in" and an abrupt stop of it's effects unless I time my 4x daily doses perfectly. This is only a comparison but it's like Xanax to anxiety, hits you hard and makes things much better but leaves even harder, making things worse if you aren't on the exactly correct dose for yourself. I do like Adderall though, don't get me wrong, it's just a fickle medication.

Now, first dose of 5mg Desoxyn...

Around 15 minutes I felt like maybe there was a very subtle "kick in" but couldn't really tell, I just kept checking the time every 10 or 15 minutes until about an hour later when I noticed that my head was just... Clear. As in, my racing thoughts were gone. I'm not really sure when this happened but it did. Total anxiety relief too, it was actually the best side effect of that first dose since I had no real tasks at hand to accomplish but a lot of my anxiety is caused by racing (sometimes intrusive) thoughts, inability to focus & other ADD related issues. I just felt... Good. I know that word can be subjective but it's the only way I can describe it. The best part was I had a very solid relief of anxiety and ability to focus on one thought at a time for about 4 hours and I didn't even really feel it leaving, it just kind of slowly did it on it's own. It was not abrupt by any means. Zero jitters or any other physical stimulation too.

Unfortunately though, even two days later, I would say the anxiety relief has went down to about 3 hours per dose and I am not having much relief with the inability to focus/clear my thoughts unless I truly force myself but even then, it's maybe 2 hours that I notice a little extra help from the Dexosyn.

This is what I expected though, a great first dose and then very mediocre doses after that because of how low the dosage is. I am completely comfortable going from 5mg 2x daily to either 10mg 3x daily or 15mg 2x daily because of how extremely subtle the 5mg is. Also worth noting, even on 5mg doses of Adderall, my BP raises a bit. I have to use a Beta Blocker sometimes on my Adderall dose because of this and the fact that I'm 26 years old and need a BP medication to counteract the effects of a medication that helps me so much really bothers me but doesn't quite warrant not using it, in my opinion. So far on Dexosyn, my BP has been unaffected at all and I'm only using a natural BP supplement called PeptACE.

My overall feelings:

If I find the right dose, I think I will stick with this medication. Although I like having a physical boost/kick-start, I primarily need the CNS stimulation because that is the part that helps my anxiety and my ADD. If my anxiety is lowered enough, it helps my insomnia and sleep patterns which in turns helps my natural energy. So if those things start getting better, I won't really care about the a physical boost from my medication. Even on this low dose, I can feel/notice the (nearly) pure CNS stimulation and lack of any PNS stimulation. I can't quite tell yet but I feel like the CNS stimulation is stronger than Dexedrine too.

So if I can get the CNS stimulation that I had the first day or close to it and find a dose that is consistent, I will without a doubt stick with Desoxyn. Better stimulation where I need it and from what I can tell so far, no side effects. I honestly couldn't ask for more.

When I up the dose that is when I will really know where Desoxyn stands but I have a really good feeling about it. This might seem like a long review for such a small dose but I want to be a thorough as possible so I can really compare how things are going after the dose bump.
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  #115  
Old 12-18-11, 12:22 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

Quote:
Originally Posted by relax21 View Post
To answer your question, Desoxyn was originally indicated for narcolepsy in the 40's, however it is no longer FDA approved for narcolepsy. My guess to why it's not approved for narcolepsy anymore is that narcoleptics tend to require higher doses to treat EDS and methamphetamine (Desoxyn) is a highly addictive substance.

I've read more currently conducted studies that found methamphetamine to work very well for treating narcolepsy. The typical dose that narcoleptics responded well to was 40 mg - 80 mg daily, which is much higher than what someone with ADHD or Obesity requires.

Desoxyn is only manufactured in 5 mg tablets which makes it suitable to be taken by children (or adults) for ADHD or treatment resistant obese patients. For obesity, a patient would take one 5 mg tablet 30 minutes before each meal, so, 15 mg daily. For ADHD, a patient would take 5 mg - 25 mg daily in divided doses.

Methamphetamine at 40 - 80 mg daily will definitely glue your eyelids open, there's no doubt about that. But as you said Desoxyn is expensive especially at 8 - 16 pills per day; 240 - 480 pills per month.
If it didn't cost so much, I would at least try. Even at a higher dose. It would be nice to not have any side effects such as amphetamines do. tambourine-man and others comments about the smoothness sounds nice. I have to take a high daily dose of adderall (120mg). It causes anxiety through the day and the end of the day, when I stop taking it is RUFF! Thanks relax21 for the info you added!
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  #116  
Old 12-18-11, 02:23 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by befitnessnow View Post

If I find the right dose, I think I will stick with this medication. Although I like having a physical boost/kick-start, I primarily need the CNS stimulation because that is the part that helps my anxiety and my ADD. If my anxiety is lowered enough, it helps my insomnia and sleep patterns which in turns helps my natural energy. So if those things start getting better, I won't really care about the a physical boost from my medication. Even on this low dose, I can feel/notice the (nearly) pure CNS stimulation and lack of any PNS stimulation. I can't quite tell yet but I feel like the CNS stimulation is stronger than Dexedrine too.

So if I can get the CNS stimulation that I had the first day or close to it and find a dose that is consistent, I will without a doubt stick with Desoxyn. Better stimulation where I need it and from what I can tell so far, no side effects. I honestly couldn't ask for more.

When I up the dose that is when I will really know where Desoxyn stands but I have a really good feeling about it. This might seem like a long review for such a small dose but I want to be a thorough as possible so I can really compare how things are going after the dose bump.
This is tricky part with any stimulant, but I must say that I find it particularly tricky with Desoxyn. I still need three doses of Desoxyn to get me through the day, but it is very difficult to find the proper dose and schedule.

Like I said, Desoxyn is very sedating at 10mg or less. 15mg twice daily works perfectly while it is working, but I find I'm left feeling very restless, scatterbrained, and, well, ADHD for the last third of the day.

10mg three times per day is odd. 10mg is quite effective in the morning, a bit too sedating in the afternoon, and comparatively jittery in the evening (still not nearly as jittery as Dexedrine or Adderall).

Any suggestions folks?

I'm pretty much determined not to go above 30mg. I'm convinced that I can find a way to make this work without raising the dose.
At the correct dose, Desoxyn is THE superior stimulant. Now I just have to get my schedule all worked out.
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Last edited by tambourine-man; 12-18-11 at 02:37 AM..
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Old 12-18-11, 10:20 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by tambourine-man View Post
This is tricky part with any stimulant, but I must say that I find it particularly tricky with Desoxyn. I still need three doses of Desoxyn to get me through the day, but it is very difficult to find the proper dose and schedule.

Like I said, Desoxyn is very sedating at 10mg or less. 15mg twice daily works perfectly while it is working, but I find I'm left feeling very restless, scatterbrained, and, well, ADHD for the last third of the day.

10mg three times per day is odd. 10mg is quite effective in the morning, a bit too sedating in the afternoon, and comparatively jittery in the evening (still not nearly as jittery as Dexedrine or Adderall).

Any suggestions folks?

I'm pretty much determined not to go above 30mg. I'm convinced that I can find a way to make this work without raising the dose.
At the correct dose, Desoxyn is THE superior stimulant. Now I just have to get my schedule all worked out.
I couldn't agree more, Adderall took me a few months to find the right dose and after everything I read here, I was so happy it only took that long. Adderall was/is odd for though because almost any instant release med (or herb or any other drug) I've ever used, I have used it 3x daily, so that fourth one feels somewhat out of place even though I needed it for full relief from the time I got up until about 5 hours before bed.

It's hard to tell but I definitely think Dexosyn will last longer than Adderall, especially when I up the dose. I'm hoping that 10mg is the correct dose for me and I could see myself dosing 3x daily but obviously I have a lot of trial and error to do. Because my BP has not raised at all (it's actually better than ever) and after my appointment on Monday I won't be able to see my Doc for almost two weeks, I think I will ask him if I can experiment with 10mg 3x daily. I'm sure he would be ok with me trying 15mg twice daily though too or however I wanted to play with the dosing, as long as my BP stays within a healthy range.

I am comfortable with a 3x daily dosing schedule but do agree that twice would be ideal. I guess it just depends on the effects of 10mg versus 15mg. If I get much more relief using 15mg but only use it twice, I would be fine with that since it has a very gradual way of leaving my system but if the effects aren't greatly better than 10mg 3x daily, I would probably just stick with that. I'm getting a head of myself though

Is your reason for not wanting to go over 30mg/daily a personal choice or something your Doc wouldn't really want to do? I'm just curious because it sounds like 15mg is your spot but that you really do not want to go over 30mg. I definitely understand having personal limitations with medications.

Have you noticed, even in the slightest, any physical effects at all so far?
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Old 12-18-11, 11:17 PM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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No luck so far. : (

Which is way too bad, because I've had a lot of luck with Desoxyn. 10mg 3x a day is absolutely perfect. Now that I've adjusted a bit more I'm able to experience this medication's full potential.

It seems I've climbed the stimulant ladder to the very top, and I've been more and more impressed with each new medication.

At this point I would rank them in this order...

1. Desoxyn
2. Dexedrine IR
3. Sandoz Adderall IR
4. Barr Adderall IR
5. Vyvanse
6. Corepharma Adderall IR

All methylphenidate products are equally awful for me. I haven't tried Focalin though. The above list is ordered based on greatest therapeutic benefit and least side-effects. It would be different if I was judging their motivating effects. Adderall is by far the most motivating.
Just curious T-man why do you have vyvanse ranked toward the bottom when it metabolizes into dextroamphetamine which is toward the top of your list? Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-19-11, 12:36 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Just curious T-man why do you have vyvanse ranked toward the bottom when it metabolizes into dextroamphetamine which is toward the top of your list? Thanks in advance.
Vyvanse was truly wonderful... for about a month. Vyvanse became incredibly inconsistent for me. Then it wasn't working at all and I became exhausted and depressed.

I have yet to find an XR medication that my body metabolizes properly.
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Old 12-19-11, 12:46 AM
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Re: The Holy Grail? -Desoxyn Journal

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Originally Posted by befitnessnow View Post
I couldn't agree more, Adderall took me a few months to find the right dose and after everything I read here, I was so happy it only took that long. Adderall was/is odd for though because almost any instant release med (or herb or any other drug) I've ever used, I have used it 3x daily, so that fourth one feels somewhat out of place even though I needed it for full relief from the time I got up until about 5 hours before bed.

It's hard to tell but I definitely think Dexosyn will last longer than Adderall, especially when I up the dose. I'm hoping that 10mg is the correct dose for me and I could see myself dosing 3x daily but obviously I have a lot of trial and error to do. Because my BP has not raised at all (it's actually better than ever) and after my appointment on Monday I won't be able to see my Doc for almost two weeks, I think I will ask him if I can experiment with 10mg 3x daily. I'm sure he would be ok with me trying 15mg twice daily though too or however I wanted to play with the dosing, as long as my BP stays within a healthy range.

I am comfortable with a 3x daily dosing schedule but do agree that twice would be ideal. I guess it just depends on the effects of 10mg versus 15mg. If I get much more relief using 15mg but only use it twice, I would be fine with that since it has a very gradual way of leaving my system but if the effects aren't greatly better than 10mg 3x daily, I would probably just stick with that. I'm getting a head of myself though

Is your reason for not wanting to go over 30mg/daily a personal choice or something your Doc wouldn't really want to do? I'm just curious because it sounds like 15mg is your spot but that you really do not want to go over 30mg. I definitely understand having personal limitations with medications.

Have you noticed, even in the slightest, any physical effects at all so far?
I don't want to increase the dose because Desoxyn is EXPENSIVE.

As much as I love this medication, it really isn't worth the cost at the dose I need. A month's supply of my current dose costs $500!

Desoxyn is remarkably smooth, gentle, and effective, but I will likely switch back to Adderall or Dexedrine if I can't find some way to make it more affordable.

I was paying $60 a month for Adderall or Dexedrine. Yes, Desoxyn is better, but is it that much better?

I will be sad if I have to switch back, but I have to be realistic. As much as I would love to see this medication become more available and affordable, the unfortunate truth is that... well, it just isn't.

This is precisely the reason that Desoxyn is the caviar of stimulants - it is rare, classy, and ridiculously overpriced. Sadly, it is also the most effective option. I was doing quite well on both Adderall and Dexedrine for a fraction of cost.

But... I want to keep my Desoxyn. : (
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