ADH Drugs for Bipolar?

[BillyTea]

Hello, I have not been diagnosed with ADD, but I thought that maybe some of you might be able to answer a question for me. When I was a child the doctors diagnosed me with clinical depression and anxiety disorder, but due to my incredibly manic reactions to anti-depresants, they have concluded that I am Bipolar. I have been through drug after drug, the ever-evil Lithium, Depakote, Zyprexa, Lamictol etc. all of which stabalize my mood,yet turn me into a VEGETABLE. I need help with my mania and my depression but I don't want to be a zombie forever. A girl in one of the online support groups I'm in said that her doctor had put her on a stimulant used to treat ADD combined with a mood stabilizer. She said it helped her with her manic depression. I have never heard of this kind of treatment, and I was wondering if anyone else has. Can ADD meds help treat Bipolar Disorder if the patient isn't attention deficit? Thanks!

[paulbf]

That combination is common but only for people with bipolar and ADHD. Stimulants do work against depression but I think they tend to make bipolar worse so if you don't have ADHD, it's probably not a good idea. Hmmm, as I read again it sounds like the suggestion is to use stimulants to counteract the lethargy from the bipolar meds and I guess that makes sense. Give it a try if your doc goes along with it.

[KMiller]

Stimulants, as Paul said, tend to make Bipolar worse. They increase the likelihood and violence of Manic episodes. To

[Matt S.]

I was dx'd bipolar because the ritalin used to make me "appear depressed" at 100 mg I never talked and was task oriented, they gave me prozac and I became "manic" as a result of taking it... I only take a stimulant now but every time they tried a SSRI I ended up manic and after not needing any more than 25 mg of topamax per day my doctor decided to have me take only dexedrine because the severity of the ADHD symptoms seems "to persist into adulthood at a severe rate whereas the severity of the bipolar affective traits commonly the main focus of disruption in childhood have seemed to regress at a progressive rate" My doc wrote that in a recent psych eval. There's the theory that people "grow out of ADHD because some don't need medications as adults" but when ADHD dx'd at 5 and bipolar NOS at age 9 is it possible to "grow out" of bipolar... trauma was what I can recall bringing on the depression but it was always the SSRI's that induced mania and I don't get manic any other time so I just ditched the antidepressants but ADHD severely impulsive and hyperactive has been my primary "Axis I" and bipolar NOS "notes history of mania exclusive to any antidepressant medication including the newer SNRI's such as Strattera and Effexor which help some people but screw with my head. Cymbalta made me like I thought I was in a war zone. I had been on only Dexedrine as a child until the police officer came into our 6th grade class to do that "DARE" program and he was talking about drugs and went on to speed and called people that were on Dexedrine and Meth and Ice Crystal Meth etc... but he said the people were called "speed freaks" and that made me stop those meds. now I need it so I accept the stigma and let it come in one ear and go out the other.

[Alekat]

How do you know it's "mania" and not supercharged anxiety brought on by ADD? I got misdiagnosed bipolar for years and went on that medication guinea pig wheel. SSRI's were the worst. Nothing changed in my life, mind and behaviors until I was treated with stimulents. All anxiety is gone too.
I have read online somewhere tho that stimulents added to bipolar meds can be a last resort for bipolars when all else has failed.

[PlainlyOrdinary]

i'm going to copy in a post that i made in another forum, as it relates to this one greatly.

Originally Posted by PlainlyOrdinary

so they say i'm bipolar II, but what do they really know? i have been on a litany of anti-depressants, mood stabilisers, and various tranqs. none of them worked in any noticeable or reliable way as to to alleviate my depression and, what they call, hypomania. this "hypomania" is actually rather infrequent. it really only happens when i'm in a very unfamiliar, confusing, or conflictual situation. my conversational style, i think, mostly accounts for my appearing to be "hypomanic." people tell me that when i talk, it's as if i'm giving a speech or doing a soliloqy. my depressive states are longer and more defined. i feel that my depression stems from a constant lack of energy, my obsessive need to over-analyse the past and over-calculate the future, my distinct lack of comfort and feeling of unsafety in anything not familiar or routine, an inability to concentrate on anything that isn't ACUTELY stimulating to my mind(and even then i quickly lose interest), my constant need to hide and compensate for my confusion regarding social interaction--verbal and non-verbal, the fact that i am basically incapable of having a conversation in a proper 2-way/give and take fashion(when i do talk about things that don't concern or interest me, it's an act. and it's VERY tiring), and most importantly...never feeling motivated to the point of action.


i have many goals, mind you. the issue is that the good feelings, garnered from the thought of achieving, do not outweigh the bad feelings i get from the constant confusion of "how to get there." so, until that ratio flips over, i'm doomed for flatline existence. i'm doomed to remain the king of unfinished endeavors.


and as a side-note:

i'm now in a search for a new psychiatrist. i had been in treatment for many years. i loved my psychiatrist. he was/is a great man, but he just could not let go of his sure feelings, concerning his diagnosis of bipolar II. i have been out of treatment for around a year, now. i've spent countless hours of countless days reading and searching for an answer. i came to this:

a) mild aspergers
b) add

...or perhaps...

c) bipolar and add--add being the primary itch.

and also...

Originally Posted by PlainlyOrdinary

i have a 10-day residential vipassana meditation course coming up on the 26th(my current obsession). upon my return, i'll be starting my search for a new psychiatrist. my inability to be around people or to be in settings i'm uncomfortable/unfamiliar with makes holding a normal job a current inpossibility. i'm now on social security disability and will begin to have medicare coverage on the first of may. my old psychiatrist worked diligently to ensure that i was approved on my first application. i was actually seriously considering going back to him, but i've not seen him in over a year. i called the office and spoke with margaret, his receptionist, and she told me that in the time since i've left, he'd only retained around 10 patients; most of his time is committed to the st mary's sleep clinic. so that was a disappointment, as i'm really not looking forward to telling my entire story to another psychiatrist. it took me around 2 years to open up to him and be sure that his motives, regarding his profession, were true and pure.

here is a list of the meds i tried while under his care:

effexor
wellbutrin
imipramine
paxil
zoloft
clomipramine
risperdal
valium
seroquel
lamictal
lithium
klonopin
restoril
geodon
ambien
zyprexa

also, i took benthanechol and amantadine to combat the urinary-ish side-effects of the tri-cyclics. and as another side note: after copious amounts of reading and study, i took it upon myself to experiment with adderall. my old psychiatrist was convinced it'd send me manic; likewise, he'd never prescribe. i said that it would not. btw, i was right. he was wrong. it didn't surprise me though, as i'm accustomed to being right 90% of the time.

i remember on several occasions, dr. bick would ask, "josh, please let *me* be your doctor." lol.

and another...

Originally Posted by PlainlyOrdinary

my main fear is that whoever i end up seeing will think that i am just a drug-seeker. i am very hesitant to ask for stimulant therapy. from the research i've done and from the conversations i've had with people in similar situations--bipolar/add, i've been told that a mood stabiliser and a stimulant, together, are a great combination for the adhd bipolar. i still feel though that i'd need an anti-dep to go along with it.

from what i hear the combination of topamax and dexedrine works wonders. i'm still very scared about how the psychiatrist will view me if i am assertive in my thoughts, concerning my treatment. i would HOPE that when he sees the laundry list of meds i've taken in the past, which can be confirmed by my medical chart and prior psychiatrist, that he'll understand thet i've gone years searching for something that will combat my depression, but STILL give me enough focus, energy, and motivation to actually do something with my life. and that i just cannot bear to think of going through another 3-4 years of trying the same meds that i know do not work.

based on research and talking to others in treatment, the combination i'd really like to try would be:

effexor xr
dexedrine
topamax

is this a little how you feel?