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  #76  
Old 02-13-12, 03:56 PM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
I (nowadays - not back then) will have an immediate allergic reaction / asthma / eczema to white flour products / dairy products.
I'd make sure you don't have cancer or something other than ADD (maybe yeast overgrowth?), if your health care system allows such check ups without charge. Just watching out for ya, SB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
I think that the mechanism is called '(metabolic) imprinting' which lies in-between "genetics" and "epigenetics".
Yes but I think that's only those whose parents lacked nutrition during pregnancy have those problems, that I know of, it's ONLY epigenetic, so it never gets selected for genetically, and can't last in populations, because famines have never lasted long enough. There's nothing to gain by asserting more benefit than what is actual. Perhaps SB and others on here could have avoided resorting to extreme diets if they had eaten better or had not done certain things in their lives leading up to their falling out. Personal traits are one thing, but saying we all are like this, is not legitimate, unless always accompanied by a question mark or a few them, and perhaps in bold text.

I'd read through this when you get a chance.
http://dvr.sagepub.com/content/3/1/7.full.pdf+html

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Selection for metabolic efficiency in a world which is *rapidly* running out of food.

A predictable evolutionary development.
Kinda in response to above statements, and I can also go into "world rapidly running out of food" assertion, if requested. .

<style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } &nbs</style>
Quote:
It may come as a surprise to discover that during most famines relatively few people die from frank starvation – that is, depleting their body reserves to the point where they run out of energy. Perhaps the most comprehensive data available on causes of mortality during famine come from the Irish potato famine (1845–50)
Quote:
These data provide a comprehensive picture of the major causes of mortality during one of the most serious famine events ever reported. In fact mortality during the worst famine years averaged 17.3% per annum, compared with only 5.3% in the pre-famine period. During 1847, the recorded deaths numbered 250,000 yet only 6,000 were attributed to starvation. Consequently, although the mortality directly attributable to the famine (excess deaths above background) was 12% of the population per annum, only 5% of these deaths could be attributed directly to starvation. Starvation-induced mortality during the peak famine years was therefore only about 0.6% of the population per annum
So, I think the ideas presented on this forum need some serious revision regarding the hypothetical relationship between ADD and more efficient metabolism. ADD occurs in the minority of the population, yet only the minority of a population dies from starvation during famine. That's pretty much the exact opposite of where the logic has gone so far here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abi
I think more people on this forum have some type of allergy (most notably hayfever / sinusitis [not concerta induced, private joke] ) than in the gen. pop.
Abi, I have grown out of all my allergies (was allergic to everything apparently-environmentally speaking). Now I'm just allergic to dust mite/cockroach, and it's nothing severe, I haven't taken meds for a couple weeks, and am doing ok.. Fexofenadine is my drug of choice for allergies, when I resort to them. Still has some side effect, but much less than anything else I know of, but I don't always feel like dealing with them

Quote:
Originally Posted by SB
Herb tea + stevia remain.
I really think the food industry could improve tons by using more stevia in their concoptions, as it is a natural sweetener and does not have harmful effects in the long term, unlike others, if I'm not mistaken.. An uncle of mine grew some stevia plant last year in the garden, the leaves were sweet (I guess that's where it's processed from, into crystalline form). Plant-life can be interesting.

Little disclaimer: If anything you guys are doing, are of advantage to your quality of life, then I support that you keep doing it. Also keep trying to better understand it.

Last edited by qinkin; 02-13-12 at 04:11 PM..
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  #77  
Old 02-14-12, 04:32 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin View Post
I'd make sure you don't have cancer or something other than ADD (maybe yeast overgrowth?), if your health care system allows such check ups without charge. Just watching out for ya, SB.



Yes but I think that's only those whose parents lacked nutrition during pregnancy have those problems, that I know of, it's ONLY epigenetic, so it never gets selected for genetically, and can't last in populations, because famines have never lasted long enough. There's nothing to gain by asserting more benefit than what is actual. Perhaps SB and others on here could have avoided resorting to extreme diets if they had eaten better or had not done certain things in their lives leading up to their falling out. Personal traits are one thing, but saying we all are like this, is not legitimate, unless always accompanied by a question mark or a few them, and perhaps in bold text.

I'd read through this when you get a chance.
http://dvr.sagepub.com/content/3/1/7.full.pdf+html



Kinda in response to above statements, and I can also go into "world rapidly running out of food" assertion, if requested. .

<style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } &nbs</style>So, I think the ideas presented on this forum need some serious revision regarding the hypothetical relationship between ADD and more efficient metabolism. ADD occurs in the minority of the population, yet only the minority of a population dies from starvation during famine. That's pretty much the exact opposite of where the logic has gone so far here.


Abi, I have grown out of all my allergies (was allergic to everything apparently-environmentally speaking). Now I'm just allergic to dust mite/cockroach, and it's nothing severe, I haven't taken meds for a couple weeks, and am doing ok.. Fexofenadine is my drug of choice for allergies, when I resort to them. Still has some side effect, but much less than anything else I know of, but I don't always feel like dealing with them


I really think the food industry could improve tons by using more stevia in their concoptions, as it is a natural sweetener and does not have harmful effects in the long term, unlike others, if I'm not mistaken.. An uncle of mine grew some stevia plant last year in the garden, the leaves were sweet (I guess that's where it's processed from, into crystalline form). Plant-life can be interesting.

Little disclaimer: If anything you guys are doing, are of advantage to your quality of life, then I support that you keep doing it. Also keep trying to better understand it.
It's very difficult to reply to you using 1 simply worded sentence (as you've requested), if your replies demand more.

Just 1 sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by only read this 1 line in the post (as you've requested you require)
Metabolic efficiency is being selected for, and when selected for - is responsible for the emergence of ADhd (the hyperactivity disorder (not the Attention Deficit part) - under societal/environmental control); forget mechanisms and understand the idea - the rest (all of it) will become obvious to your mind.
It's really simple.

I can supply mechanisms - but each time I offer suggestions, my posts are attacked.

And so I really am not interested any more.

It's definitely the answer though.

Before attacking the idea - it's best to consider that I don't benefit from it, I won't make any money from it - and maybe more importantly that I don't particularly like the idea ... ...
I'm really not looking to defend it
- if you don't like it - then that's OK - I don't like it either

but it really is the solution.


And a pretty dull solution it is too ... ... ... but ... ... ... that's not really so important.

Pretty sure that no-one 'll listen anyway - because the idea takes away all that is important to the state of 'delusion'.
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Old 02-14-12, 05:03 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qinkin View Post
<style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } &nbs</style>So, I think the ideas presented on this forum need some serious revision ...
1 sentence
Quote:
Originally Posted by one simple sentence
I really, really don't want to play word games - you're simply taking an overly restrictive definition of death through famine (starvation); I don't like these sorts of games - because everybody knows that a death through increased eg (just 1 example) susceptibility to infection through malnutrition is a death from (directly caused by) famine.
I'm looking at genetic selection for a genome which protects against both (it's both metabolically more efficient and potentially resistant to infections also)
- making the idea very attractive indeed (from an evolutionary perspective).

And, the idea isn't out there at the moment - so don't be surprised if it can't be found using google; it's a synthesis (simplification, generalization) of available information - where most're more keen (the dominant paradigm in research) in generating more and more and more data; where simplification/generalization is the missing aspect of today's so called 'science' (actually - just technology) - is what needs to be incorporated within today's so called 'science' to make it actual science.
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  #79  
Old 02-14-12, 05:22 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

--- ASIDE ---

There's a very important and very worrying aspect to this idea.

I'm pretty sure that with metabolic efficiency that there's a trade-off (pushing aside the idea of a different diet being required and stress sensitivity)-

- I'm pretty sure (extending the definition of stress) - that the new metabolic behaviour of ADDer requires a lower energy brain (mind)

- requires us to remain in theta EEG.

That deviation from theta EEG causes us stress.

Now here's the 'killer' (as in 'kills us') component of this idea - any form of 'bad speech' (see Buddhism for a definition) causes us - by forcing us out of theta EEG - stress.

Causes us pain, Knocks us off balance, Shortens our life.

-*-

This aspect to the idea is very worrying indeed - because there's no way of living life in the current world in a state of peaceful theta EEG.

And, as I've just discovered from the recent link to Mount Athos - they maintain trance (theta EEG - or at least a state compatible with theta EEG) from morning to night.

-*-

Pretty sure that I can push this idea up to definitely true -
the ADDer can't benefit from our/their 'enhancements' unless we dismantle the anti-social aspects of society

- which reflects all systems which maintain inequality in wealth ... , all systems which require us to compromise our sense of morality for the acquisition of life's survival essentials.

Noting that all of the above (the change in society) comes naturally to all people who realise that we're simply evolutionary products - created and constantly evolving

- where the current task set by evolution is to learn to be social
- to be able to discard the need to be right, to have more than somebody else, to be more than somebody else ... ... ... the illusion that anybody can {be,have,be} is exactly that - an illusion.

We're all (all human beings) and will always be, pretty much the same.
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  #80  
Old 02-14-12, 05:41 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Okay you guys go on a hunger strike to be stress free.

Its fried chicken and beer for me.. *munch* *slurp*

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  #81  
Old 02-14-12, 06:01 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

SB, I have heart disease, lung disease and cancer.

ADHD was diagnosed when I was four. Lung disease- with a different prognosis and different definition of dysfunction was diagnosed at age 8 (survivable) and age 48 (not survivable). I had breast cancer in 03. The current cancer is a new diagnosis and I don't know the etiology.

Is metabolism the key issue? Somehow I don't think so.
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  #82  
Old 02-14-12, 06:05 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Tigs: Some chicken? Its good.

*bounce*

(((Good to see you)))
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  #83  
Old 02-14-12, 06:17 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

(((hugs))) Abi. I don't DO food. Thank you for offering.

Trying to find the line between metabolistic causality and metabolistic failure in my case may be the challenge. Either way, ADHD isn't the problem but may be part of the solution.

I don't DO failure, either.
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  #84  
Old 02-14-12, 09:07 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

This thread *did* inspire me to make some quinoa for breakfast, which then reminded why I haven't had quinoa for breakfast in such a long time.

Remember that thing I said about the saponin coating and how it needs a through wash? Well, the word "thorough" has never described how I do *anything*, so I just end up trying for twenty minutes to wash it as best I can, then getting impatient and giving up and having soapy quinoa.

Next time I'm investing in the more expensive pre-washed stuff.

Hopefully enough sugar, cinnamon and raisins will disguise the dishwater taste...
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Old 02-14-12, 09:29 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHDTigger View Post
SB, I have heart disease, lung disease and cancer.

ADHD was diagnosed when I was four. Lung disease- with a different prognosis and different definition of dysfunction was diagnosed at age 8 (survivable) and age 48 (not survivable). I had breast cancer in 03. The current cancer is a new diagnosis and I don't know the etiology.

Is metabolism the key issue? Somehow I don't think so.
I'm Pretty sure that all of the big killers in man have our underlying transition from anaerobic to aerobic metabolism at their core.

2 factors lift blood glucose (diet and stress) - more blood glucose than is required
- over-cranks bodily systems
- leading to overgrowth, oversensitivity, hyperactivity, hypersensitivity.

<- That's the idea

Our key problem is that our response to stress is to increase our stress (since blood glucose elevation eg sweets/cake are our mechanism of stress comfort).

I'm not trying to over-complicate.

ps - I've been told by my wife's mother who later died from breast cancer that it's well known that eliminating sugar and starch is a standard method of slowing cancerous growth; she'd switched onto agave ??? <-- note not advocating its use, never tried it, don't know what it is or what's in it.

Also - it's pretty well known (I think) that sugar and starch are the basis to dental disease.
Of all the silly interventions man has come up with - to drill holes in teeth and fill them with mercury or gold has to be the most bizarre
- when one takes a step back and realises what we're doing.

The take home mesage from any of us having dental decay - is that we're eating the wrong foods -
- and those foods are sugar/starch containing.

I think that the blood glucose level was always meant to be an internal bodily control mechanism
- though that we (through agriculture) caught on and 'cut out' the middle man (that is our body) and went straight to blood glucose elevation directly.

I'm trying to suggest that human biochemistry isn't suited to any of the hyperglycaemic foods.
I've discovered that even certain types of protein can be considered a hyperglycaemic food (from 'protein power')
- meaning that they're 'out' too ... ...

Unfortunately - I haven't yet settled on a list of acceptable foods
- it'll be a couple of months yet.

I would though write that it's looking as though [in order]
  1. the fatty veg (olives, aubergine, avocado, coconut) are featuring highly
  2. - followed by olive oil and ghee
  3. - with the hypoglycaemic green veg next
  4. - followed by channa dal and then tofu
  5. - with eggs
  6. and then fish coming in at the end of the list.

Everything I've listed has an effectively zero glycaemic index rating - that has to be important.


btw - using immediate pain felt upon consumption as my test - unfortunately almost constant throbbing tooth pain has meant that my senses aren't as tuned to peripheral pain as they usually are.

-*-

This list may fluctuate - will update it as soon as I've a zero pain diet.
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Old 02-14-12, 09:39 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/f...tar#post353548
Quote:
Agave nectar

On the bottle it says safe for diabetics, low glycemic index and will not spike blood sugar. So I get home and open it and put a dab on my finger figuring it will taste like potting soil or something. Whoa! It tastes fantastic. Better than honey...almost better than sugar. So I'm thinking I just got taken for $6 because this stuff cannot be good for me. Anyone know anything about this stuff?
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Old 02-14-12, 09:54 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Here's a link to fast/slow metabolized proteins:



My body spontaneously rejects (through pain) beef and whey (both described on site) and appears OK with tofu/egg (as described in the post above).
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Old 02-14-12, 10:02 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

Agave nectar is a plant nectar that comes from a kind of cactus.

Like stevia, it is very expensive and plant-based, and has it's own flavor that some people don't like.

The problem with these "natural" (non-sugar) sweeteners is that they are prohibitively expensive for most people, and that they are indigenous plants from certain areas.

So are you going to monoculture stevia and agave plants (can you monoculture a cactus)? I mean, you're talking about a heavy environmental impact either way to get the necessary yields.
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Old 02-14-12, 10:06 AM
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Re: Dietary roots of diseases and disorders.

So ... ... ... the idea is that ADDers are more metabolically efficient (obligate aerobic rather than facultative aerobic) - and that in order to maintain us 'healthy' -

we need to remain in theta EEG, with a certain rate of (deep) breathing, absence of stress (shifts us out of theta EEG), absence of hyperglycaemic foods ingested (fat preferred).

Think of us (the sentence above) as being the definition of the physical body as an aerobic engine for converting fat into water.

Increased stress/hyperglycaemic diet results in our system being over-cranked/over-clocked ... ... we run too fast.

Take the idea in before commenting - and then look to see if it reflects your personal situation.

It's a perfect description of everything I know of ADD and a whole lot more.

The only 2 questions I have are over the precise diet specification (still not defined to my satisfaction) and some ??? method ??? of introducing a properly social infrastructure onto the species to allow ADDers to live stress free.

The thing about ADDers - is that when we spend a little time examining 'stuff' - we all come to the conclusion that all we want is basic survial essentials and TO BE LEFT ALONE.

Unfortuntely the paragraph above requires us (the ADDer) to emerge from under our stone - hopefully for not much longer, to shift all of our contexts - from vicious, money requiring to something sustainable and fair.

I'm pretty sure that most ADDers will despise this type of exercise.

Personally, all I want is to be left to daydream.

Since persistent daydreaming is a part of the definition of ADD - it's likely that the tendency which I'm describing will be found central in many others of us here.

There's only so much of stating that
"obviously stupid stuff is stupid and this is the solution"
that anybody can stand.

If the message isn't coming through loud and clear - then what's the point in persisting ?

People really do need to try and come to grips with language though - > 99% of the problems I experience here, are words being taken out of context.

I state that I don't like driving.
People reply that they don't like playing golf either.

This type of wordplay isn't useful in dissecting real world phenomena.

The basic idea as described above explains
Why ADD emerged ? [standard evolutionary - metabolic efficiency selected]
What ADD is ? [disorder as higher/more fluctuating blood glucose than required]
Which problems ADDers will suffer from ? [overactivity/hyperactivity/oversensitivity]
How to overcome these problems ? [diet, exercise, social change - most notably - to eliminate stress]

-*-

Now define what the social change - most notably - to eliminate stress we require is ?

Line 3 of my signature.

Quote:
home + vegetables offered to all as planetary birthright.
__________________
Development of (love/desire of) equality through a personal enquiry into morality (alongside application within an aligned social environment) as root to alleviation of suffering.

IGNORE LIST BEING USED - 8 ENTRIES
T - 1 before communication becomes futile.

Last edited by SB_UK; 02-14-12 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 02-14-12, 11:59 AM
SB_UK SB_UK is offline
 
 

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METABOLIC roots of diseases and disorders.

Concluding this thread then (which, incidentally I didn't start)

The story of human disease (including the disorder in ADHD and the advantage in ADHD) can be understood from an evolutionary switch in metabolism from (and simplifying, because glucose levels are required throughout - it's a change in emphasis) from glucose-only ->- to ->- fat-'only' (it's a change in emphasis) usage.

For the record though - what's the point in making a conclusion which nobody's interested in 'hearing' ?

Nobody's gonna' like the lifestyle which this idea reports back is required for health; it's akin to taking each and every motivational ('rewarding') aspect of life and labelling it as 'bad' for human health.
Luckily though - we've a new motivational (reward) scheme to replace the anachronistic motivational (reward) scheme (primitive) which society has (up until now) embraced.
Quote:
ADD - the emergence of an aerobic social animal
necessitating
a change in social infrastructure to a
home + vegetables
offered to all as planetary birthright.
There's really no need to take this idea further; it's sufficiently complete.
__________________
Development of (love/desire of) equality through a personal enquiry into morality (alongside application within an aligned social environment) as root to alleviation of suffering.

IGNORE LIST BEING USED - 8 ENTRIES
T - 1 before communication becomes futile.

Last edited by SB_UK; 02-14-12 at 12:24 PM..
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