"Bipolar ADHD" - Bipolar people similar to ADHD people.

[mrsmith]

I understand many bipolar persons are very similar to ADHD people (including forgetfulness etc.)

Can one call this "Bipolar ADHD" as a distinct condition and population from regular ADHD?

(That you don't have a continuum with varying degrees of ADHD and Bipolar)

I think it is different because reaction from medication is different from mainstream ADHD.

Is there a better terminology for this (than "Bipolar ADHD")

Is such "Bipolar ADHD" stable through life, independent of bipolar cycles?

Can you have Bipolar ADHD without being bipolar enough to have bipolar episodes?

Is it like most Bipolar people are normal as young, and a minority are similar to ADHD?

I don't know so much about this, but my understanding is that Bipolar is something you are or you are not,
and you are bipolar if you will have bipolar episodes at some point in life.

[ginniebean]

The big problem is that adhd and bipolar II share 16 of 18 symptoms and this leads to a lot of confusion for many psychiatrists. Dr. Barkley has stated that if there is a diagnosis of ADHD there should not be a diagnosis of BPII comorbid because all of the symptoms can be explained by the ADHD.

[mrsmith]

What exactly is a "BPII comorbid" diagnosis?

Anyway, if the individual is Bipolar, it will show up later, right?
So it a question about uncertainty, not that the individual is in-between the two?

[ginniebean]

It means being diagnosed with both ADHD and bipolar II

[shamrock]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

The big problem is that adhd and bipolar II share 16 of 18 symptoms and this leads to a lot of confusion for many psychiatrists. Dr. Barkley has stated that if there is a diagnosis of ADHD there should not be a diagnosis of BPII comorbid because all of the symptoms can be explained by the ADHD.

I didnt know that ginniebean. I have never read anything yet from Dr Barkley that I didnt agree with but I have now found my first.

I had Add PI all my life. Bp2 started in my late 20s after a lot of stress and trauma. The two disorders are almost 30 years apart in origin in me so there is no way they could be the same.

The only other explanation I could think of would be that Add somehow evolves dramatically and I mean dramatically to mimic bp2 in your late 20s and I have never heard anything like that.

I experienced the onset of my bp as a major catastrophic event to the extent where I divide my life mentally into two ie before it happened and after it happened. if you saw photos of me just before I got it and 5 years after i got it you would be shocked at how much I had aged.

So unless he has an explanation for this major catastrophic event I am going with the onset of a new disorder.

I believe they are totally linked though. Posts asking "Does Add turn into bipolar?" fascinate me but there is no proof that it can.

Im not sure whether thats because it cant or whether it can and they just havent found the reason yet. Sometimes I suspect the latter but really I have no idea.

[CheekyMonkey]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

The big problem is that adhd and bipolar II share 16 of 18 symptoms and this leads to a lot of confusion for many psychiatrists. Dr. Barkley has stated that if there is a diagnosis of ADHD there should not be a diagnosis of BPII comorbid because all of the symptoms can be explained by the ADHD.

How does that work? Medication-wise they are very different treatments.

[daveddd]

Originally Posted by shamrock

I didnt know that ginniebean. I have never read anything yet from Dr Barkley that I didnt agree with but I have now found my first.

I had Add PI all my life. Bp2 started in my late 20s after a lot of stress and trauma. The two disorders are almost 30 years apart in origin in me so there is no way they could be the same.

The only other explanation I could think of would be that Add somehow evolves dramatically and I mean dramatically to mimic bp2 in your late 20s and I have never heard anything like that.

I experienced the onset of my bp as a major catastrophic event to the extent where I divide my life mentally into two ie before it happened and after it happened. if you saw photos of me just before I got it and 5 years after i got it you would be shocked at how much I had aged.

So unless he has an explanation for this major catastrophic event I am going with the onset of a new disorder.

I believe they are totally linked though. Posts asking "Does Add turn into bipolar?" fascinate me but there is no proof that it can.

Im not sure whether thats because it cant or whether it can and they just havent found the reason yet. Sometimes I suspect the latter but really I have no idea.

you sure you developed BP or maybe ptsd

[daveddd]

and no adhd doesnt turn into BP


that FACT is most neurological conditions that persist into adulthood will include a mood disorder or 2

or 3 or 4

depending on how many comorbids your doctor is comfortable labeling you with

[mrsmith]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

The big problem is that adhd and bipolar II share 16 of 18 symptoms and this leads to a lot of confusion for many psychiatrists. Dr. Barkley has stated that if there is a diagnosis of ADHD there should not be a diagnosis of BPII comorbid because all of the symptoms can be explained by the ADHD.

Diagnostic policy is a bit different, I think. Also:

1) I am asking about continium, not if you can have 2 different disorders.
and
2) I am asking about relation to typical impulsive ADHD (including a good response to Ritalin).

Otherwise I see there is BD-NOS - "sub-threshold" bipolar. I guess these persons can have "Bipolar ADHD", and this should be diagnosed as ADHD, if it is knows that they are bipolar.

[mrsmith]

> if it is knows that they are bipolar.
if it is not known the individual is bipolar

[sarahsweets]

They xn often be comormoid but not cause each eother.

[ginniebean]

Originally Posted by mrsmith

Diagnostic policy is a bit different, I think. Also:

1) I am asking about continium, not if you can have 2 different disorders.
and
2) I am asking about relation to typical impulsive ADHD (including a good response to Ritalin).

Otherwise I see there is BD-NOS - "sub-threshold" bipolar. I guess these persons can have "Bipolar ADHD", and this should be diagnosed as ADHD, if it is knows that they are bipolar.

There is no continuum. There is comorbidity. Otherwise I'm still not getting what you're asking. Tho I am trying.

[ginniebean]

Originally Posted by shamrock

I didnt know that ginniebean. I have never read anything yet from Dr Barkley that I didnt agree with but I have now found my first.

I had Add PI all my life. Bp2 started in my late 20s after a lot of stress and trauma. The two disorders are almost 30 years apart in origin in me so there is no way they could be the same.

The only other explanation I could think of would be that Add somehow evolves dramatically and I mean dramatically to mimic bp2 in your late 20s and I have never heard anything like that.

I experienced the onset of my bp as a major catastrophic event to the extent where I divide my life mentally into two ie before it happened and after it happened. if you saw photos of me just before I got it and 5 years after i got it you would be shocked at how much I had aged.

So unless he has an explanation for this major catastrophic event I am going with the onset of a new disorder.

I believe they are totally linked though. Posts asking "Does Add turn into bipolar?" fascinate me but there is no proof that it can.

Im not sure whether thats because it cant or whether it can and they just havent found the reason yet. Sometimes I suspect the latter but really I have no idea.

ADHD and catastrophic event could just as easily be ADHD comorbid with PTSD (racing thoughts/hightened emotional dysregulation.. etc..)

I'm no psychiatrist.. I'm just reporting and asking questions.. I have NO definitive knowledge.

[ginniebean]

Originally Posted by CheekyMonkey

How does that work? Medication-wise they are very different treatments.

yes indeed they are. My mother was treated for damned near everything including bipolar 2, it wasn't until a few years ago she was finally diagnosed adhd. In one week she was doing things she hadn't in YEARS. After years of being treated for bipolar and her being slooooowed down to the point of zombification.

I do question the prescribing factor that ADHD meds are disfavoured by many psychiatrists because they are schedule II and that means oversight and risk, tho much less harmful to the patient in terms of not only long term use but also side effects. And hassle free meds (from the psychiatrists point of view) for bipolar. Even tho long term use and side effects are more dangerous.

[mrsmith]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

There is no continuum. There is co-morbidity.

IMHO ADHD might have many different basic Pathologies. Like dr Amen has 6 types of ADHD:
http://add.about.com/od/adhdthebasic...aniel-Amen.htm

BP might consentrate in one of these. IF somebody with "invincible" BP has ADHD, it is likely to be the same as somebody with visible BD. I find it natural to call this "Bipolar ADHD"

If you read the reference to comorbid below, you will see that a varying degree of BD and Bipolar ADHD is not really comorbidity (or its a bit more than that)
Also if BD excludes a diagnosis of ADHD, you would have to say something like comorbidity between BD and "Satisfies the diagnostic criteria for ADHD"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comorbidity
^1]

In medicine, comorbidity describes the effect of all other diseases an individual patient might have other than the primary disease of interest.
Many tests attempt to standardize the "weight" or value of comorbid conditions, whether they are secondary or tertiary illnesses. Each test attempts to consolidate each individual comorbid condition into a single, predictive variable that measures mortality or other outcomes. Researchers have validated such tests because of their predictive value, but no one test is as yet recognized as a standard.
The term "comorbid" has two definitions:

1. to indicate a medical condition existing simultaneously but independently with another condition in a patient (this is the older and more "correct" definition)
2. to indicate a medical condition in a patient that causes, is caused by, or is otherwise related to another condition in the same patient (this is a newer, nonstandard definition and less well-accepted).^[