People asking too much of you

[starrykitten]

I'm tearing up at the coffee shop now because I had already been wondering how I would get everything done that I need to, and now one of my editors (known for being quite negative and difficult) started griping about my pieces being inconsistent with the style guide and wants me to go back and redo everything I've done lately, which will take forever. This was after another editor told me I could have this week off because I had to fill in for him these past two weeks.

I get a lot out of this editorial work, but I don't get paid. I lose a lot of time I could be using for other things to this editorial gig.

I know as people with ADD, we tend to take on way too much, and I definitely have. But now with somebody asking me to redo all of that work--I did spend a lot of time and effort on those pieces; there's a lot to do when editing. This is work I hadn't planned for--I was already going to have to do some work for them during my week "off," but that was mostly out of loyalty to the editor with whom I work the most.

Mostly I just wanted to gripe about this to an audience who would understand.

[ginniebean]

One at a time, don't think about all of them or you will get overwhelmed, just think of them one at a time or half at a time. I find it's a mental mess if I think in big chunks.. It freezes me and then I'm capable of nothing, but if I just start... One at a time, I'm generally ok.

[spunkysmum]

Do you have an idea of the amount of hours and effort you put into editing those pieces? I mean, something you could put down on paper, show it to this editor and remind them that you are volunteering your time, time that would be worth money to you if spent on paying work? Actually, you should maybe even give an estimate of just how much an hour of your time is worth. Of course some constructive criticism is appropriate in a volunteer position, but they have to realize that it's unrealistic to expect a volunteer to take on the work of a full-time employee.

[starrykitten]

Originally Posted by spunkysmum

Do you have an idea of the amount of hours and effort you put into editing those pieces? I mean, something you could put down on paper, show it to this editor and remind them that you are volunteering your time, time that would be worth money to you if spent on paying work? Actually, you should maybe even give an estimate of just how much an hour of your time is worth. Of course some constructive criticism is appropriate in a volunteer position, but they have to realize that it's unrealistic to expect a volunteer to take on the work of a full-time employee.

I think that's a really good idea, but given the volatile nature of this particular editor, I don't think that would be a good idea. I think she has this idea that we should all feel privileged to be working there and the work should be its own reward. While she gets paid, I know that she herself does put in ridiculous hours because she runs several different sections and is one of the two people who oversees the whole website, which is huge. Perhaps she has lost perspective on what it means to put in a lot hours without pay.

I think that's perhaps the most frustrating thing about her email, just knowing that she's so curt and not personable at all and I don't really have room to say anything to her.

[sarahsweets]

If you are not getting paid and logging all of those hours you deserve to be paid something especially if it takes away from your personal time,. Its scarey to confront someone like this but sometimes you just have to do it with authority.." I will be happy to redo this week after my week off from work...if she doent like it she can f**k off.

[BlueSmurf]

I used to do freelance work (albeit in another field).

It can be very difficult when you take on too much and people ask too much of you. The idea is that you need to be in control of your own time, even if it seems like it may not be nice.

Here's a few rules that I learned to impose:

1.) Never do anything for free. You can include extra services in your rates, but they should be billed and finite. I usually allocate a certain amount of hours for revision, but if the client wants more, s/he will have to pay up.

2.) Set your schedule. Communicate that with the client. If s/he requires more time outside the original agreed amount, allocate the time as if it was a new project.

3.) If you decide to do anything extra as a courtesy, make it clear that this is the case. Otherwise, clients will start expecting and demanding these extras and more until you're essentially working for free.

4.) Sign a contract and require a deposit (i.e. 50%). It's an exchange of services/money, so why should the client have the upper hand on whether or not to pay you?

5.) Learn to say no. It's one of the most important skills one can learn.

These rules may sound scary at first, but what I found is that they only fend off the bad clients. The good ones will actually respect you for having such rules.

[Crazygirl79]

I agree with the others!!

This is a voluntary job where you don't get any financial gain from and while a level of committment and a good standard of work is expected the company cannot and should not have the same level of expectations or apply the same amount of pressure onto you as they would a paid employee, they are being unrealistic and somewhat unreasonable.

Like Spunkysmums I also think you should remind these people of your position and I would go as far as saying unless they make it clear as to to what they want you will walk away, it doesn't matter if you love the position or not nobody who volunteers their should be treated like crap or have unrealistic expectations put upon them...this is coming from someone who volunteers their times in a few places..

Selena

[fracturedstory]

I was a volunteer band photographer who got treated like I was being paid for it. Just resize this photo so it's no bigger than your thumb nail. Hmm, I think we could do without the logo. Shanti, where are the photos? You travelled 5 hours to Newcastle last night - it's 9am the next day - those photos should be online by now! I need to see about 98% of social photos and 2% of the actual band. That's what makes us a music site, that 2%.

Needless to say I am no longer a band photographer. Besides the editors treating you like it's your 9-5 job that you actually get paid for dealing with venue staff and road managers was a nightmare. Then I became epileptic and really couldn't be exposed to stage lights.

That's why when it comes to my writing when I do get around to sell it I won't have any editors, except maybe family. I'm my own editor and right now that seems kind of overwhelming but I think it's better than the alternative.

What type of writing is it Starry? Sorry if you've already said, brain doesn't want to go that extra effort to read all posts. I'm just thinking if you want exposure then maybe start a blog.

I was clueless about what present to buy my mum for her 56th? birthday so I decided to write a poem. An type of exposure is good exposure.

[starrykitten]

Originally Posted by fracturedstory

I
What type of writing is it Starry? Sorry if you've already said, brain doesn't want to go that extra effort to read all posts. I'm just thinking if you want exposure then maybe start a blog.

I was clueless about what present to buy my mum for her 56th? birthday so I decided to write a poem. An type of exposure is good exposure.

A poem is a lovely present! Most of my poems are depressing or weird, so I don't give them as gifts.

This is similar to your band photography because it's interviews with musicians. I do have my own musician interview site that I run, and that freedom is great. But I can't get big names there yet, and with this editorial gig, I can get access to bigger names, which I like. So I see this as a nonpaying rung on the ladder--it's good experience and will look good on my cv/resume. But you hit the nail on the head talking about a lot of the supervising editors' expectations.

[anonymouslyadd]

I wish I had seen this earlier.

I know what it's like to have someone go line by line, dissecting a piece of your work. I've spent many years writing, and I battle with criticism on top of my own all the time.

My mom told me once that editors "edit" everything. She was right. Before I was fired as a technical writer, my boss couldn't let go of the fact that my outline wasn't perfect like he wanted it to be. He could not be pleased. Everything and anything could be scrutinized.

We get tired quickly, making the editing/revision process involved in writing arduous. It's arduous anyway, but it feels so much harder for us.

[ADHDTigger]

Kitten, as a writer, I can tell you an immutable truth. They need you. Your need for them is less significant.

Your personal self promotion will bring you the greater access to the folks you want to interview. I can say this because I discovered that the people who wanted to put themselves in my way did so because they had seen my blogs about them and believed that I would present an interview with them with the same evenhandedness that I had built a reputation for.

Self promotion is tough. It is also well worth the effort. Have you connected to music stations in your area that play the musicians you want to report on? They are better allies than nasty editors.

Can I help?

[fracturedstory]

Originally Posted by starrykitten

A poem is a lovely present! Most of my poems are depressing or weird, so I don't give them as gifts.

This is similar to your band photography because it's interviews with musicians. I do have my own musician interview site that I run, and that freedom is great. But I can't get big names there yet, and with this editorial gig, I can get access to bigger names, which I like. So I see this as a nonpaying rung on the ladder--it's good experience and will look good on my cv/resume. But you hit the nail on the head talking about a lot of the supervising editors' expectations.

Oh it's the music industry, say no more.
As a band photographer you're treated like a child. I can just imagine that as an interviewer they expect an amount of professionalism from you. But it is good exposure if that's what you want to get into.

Is this site made up of contributors that have to respond quickly to get an interview or is it just a handful of people? The site I volunteered for had hundreds of contributors so if you left it made no difference to them. If it's a site like that then walking away won't matter, unless they actually have this thing called a heart and there's a degree of softness to it, not sponge-like but kind of like the rubber of a tennis ball.
Yeah, I don't like the music industry.

Best of luck to you. What I did to get my foot in the door so to speak was to meet bands after a show, or during when they were not performing. As a photographer I just had to show them my photos for them to take notice. I was on MySpace too and so were they so we kept in contact. And I met these bands when they were starting and in time they grew more popular. Some bands I photographed and had that opportunity to meet have become huge and I missed that opportunity of getting to know them. Some I didn't want to know like Short Stack. I was at their earliest gigs, before anyone hated them. Well...before everyone hated them. And there's been so many bands that just exploded in popularity. My friend loves this band that I've actually been paid to photograph and that just blows my mind every time she mentions them.

So that's my advice to you. Go out and meet them. Buy them a drink and don't ask them for an interview at first. Slip it in there as a 'I know you're probably busy and you don't have to say yes but it will really help build my skills up if I could get an interview' or better yet name drop who you volunteer for.
Start on the medium popularity bands. Bands people know and have a bit of a following but are still small enough to be excited about being mentioned in an article or on a website.

The band that gave me access into a huge area-type of show I still know and they're huge but I still know them and they still play small shows. It might be the difference between Australian bands and American bands. Australian bands loving playing to small crowds and you have more of a chance to meet them.

Although all the bands I know now have been going for +10 years and they really don't get excited about being in articles or care about the photos you took of them.

Band/artist managers are your in. I met and did promos for Lisa Mitchell and she was huge once, all because of doing a favour for a manager I know. And through him I got into many shows, many photo passes.

If I was still a photographer well let's see...the local venue in town the infamous Annandale Hotel I have free access to any gig I want to go to. I could probably bother one of members of You Am I for photo passes and door spots. And my most unexpected in is with the singer for Funeral For a Friend.

Another thing is interact with people at a show. I don't know if it's the same for interviewers but people would come up to me and say 'hey I saw you at this show and I saw your photos on FL' and suddenly I had fans.

That said the stress was way too much for me. If I could write reviews I would do that. Anyway, hope some of what I said helped.

[bADDad]

Ultimately, it brings you a level of joy and sense of acheivement that you love. Or it used to. Which means you must be good at it or have a natural talent for it. Maybe that balance just needs to be adjusted.

I've been freelance 22 years and one of the first things I've learned is that if you don't "value" your work or the contribution you make then no one else will. That said it isn't always about money or other gains. Sometimes it is just that sense of satisfaction of giving something back to honor your roots or knowing that you did a kick *** freebie for someone who was never going to be able to afford it.

You are not putting in the effort to be taken for granted. Remind them that you bring your own style and flair which is the reason they were so interested in the first place. Back yourself. Stand by the work you do if you believe it warrants it. If it doesn't fit in some micromanaging, control freak's box neatly enough then cut loose and regenerate elsewhere. They'll know what they lost in 2 seconds.

This ADHD **** is hard enough before people start asking too much of you as well. Be gentle with yourself and look after #1.

[Drewbacca]

Even NTs can show significant impulsiveness in light of an email like that. Pat yourself on the back for not immediately sending a nasty reply... I would have.

If the gig is important to you, then you need to meet the editor's demands. But, you also need to meet those demands at a pace that is convenient to you. You are a volunteer and shouldn't be expected to put in long hours. They aren't going to easily find someone else who is willing to put in long hours, so the ball is in your court. Don't let them push you around. If rewriting those articles is such a heavy priority, then the micromanaging editor should be willing to meet with you over coffee while you both work on pumping out those revisions as a team. You owe her nothing and she owes you a lot more than being a hyper critical negative nancy...

[spunkysmum]

Originally Posted by Drewbacca

Even NTs can show significant impulsiveness in light of an email like that. Pat yourself on the back for not immediately sending a nasty reply... I would have.

I would have replied nastily, too, with heaping helpfuls of cold sarcasm. Edited only for typos or to make it nastier.

If rewriting those articles is such a heavy priority, then the micromanaging editor should be willing to meet with you over coffee while you both work on pumping out those revisions as a team. You owe her nothing and she owes you a lot more than being a hyper critical negative nancy...

True. Anybody who is dependent on the efforts of volunteers cannot afford to be overly harsh and unreasonable. A volunteer is really no different than a financial contributor. If you're running a charity, you don't criticize a big donor's sloppy handwriting on the donation check.