School System Failures, Not The Children's

[Insane Control]

It's not that we need medication to cope. It's that we need medication to cope in the way this world has become. So what is the problem??? If a society operates naturally and evolves to its current state of prescribed living (an evolutionary advent of change from innovation and technology). With technology we arrive here and realize that we can never fully understand our world around us because there is simply too much information to process accurately. So we rely on a massive network of people to gain information...and it's only partially accurate. Especially when the educational systems can't even tell you the truth about our own history.

2 types of people for thinking on this discussion:

1.) People that accept what they learn and self-justify these false truths to do what is called as Self-Preservation, because the reality is so detrimental to their psyche that the minds shut out the harmful information, or they are just stupid and don't care. I like to call them the cattle, because they lead their lives and just feed the mouths of others and can't do a thing about it.

2.) People that don't accept what they are taught because they have learned they have been lied to so many times that they question everything (whether you are aware of it or not)...this can lead to insanity and has; many times over.

The evolution of this society has been one of unilateral teaching to groups of children that are all different, that think, learn and act differently due to their biological make-up. We are all different in an immeasurable amount of ways. And to top that off, we are taught all on the same schedule and all the same information; which people learn at different paces usually based on biological factors.

Society has learned to blame the children for it's shortcomings, and no one really seems to care. In the U.S. we have close to an average high-school class size of 25(can't remember the exact statistic, but it's not important to make the point since 5 kids per class would lead to the same conclusion).

We all have different abilities to learn a multivariate of subjects, not excluding physical learning. And if a student in class is wanting to be a kid and develop physically, we make them sit still and learn at the same pace the other children(average) do. How does that even make sense? There are many different ways to educate a society effectively and America (as well as other countries) is lost as to how to do it. And it all comes down to the issue of funding and forced curriculums. As well as parents too tired from working all day to even care about their own kids.

Just ask yourself the question: If I was educated or trained outside the societal "norms", maybe taught botany by experience to relieve the restlessness, or any other outdoor activity that expended the pent-up energy most kids have...would you have needed to be medicated?? Our educational system has not only been neglected, it is being exploited. We need to admit, as a society that we screwed up, as everyone does when they learn...and fix it. But I fear we are too far down the controlled path to even come out successful.

"Justification for medication is obvious, but it's not the answer to the problem. We are the experiments that will help the future; and we can."
-unknown-

[Monkey Bean]

The two options are either you're cattle or you live completely outside the system? That's overimplifying the complexities of life just a bit.

For one thing, children aren't fed a pill at the classroom door and ushered to their chairs to sit like zombies, passively absorbing information. I will give you that the US school system has its shortcomings. Teachers have to work incredibly hard to make the material interesting and engaging within the confines of testing requirements. But it's not like the entire school day is a wasteland of passive mind control. I have a son starting high school this year, and he thrived really well during k-6 in a private school without meds. Was he always a giant handful to his teachers? Sure. In junior high, it was a tough adjustment. His major pitfalls were not so much that he was disruptive in class, but that his lack of impulse control was hampering him socially, and causing problems in forming good pre-teen/teen friendships. We still gave him input into whether he wanted to try Ritalin, and he did. He was actually somewhat relieved to be diagnosed and to understand that ADHD was contributing to his awkward, difficult social situations.

The point I want to make there is that every society has sort of a bell curve of social conformity, and people can and will be different and unique. But not TOO unique. At some outlying area, some behavior does become dysfunctional. In a setting where there are other people and the needs of multiple people must be met, there are individual behaviors that are disruptive and anti-social. Not all of those issues need to be addressed through medication, but some do.

In spite of all the so-called cattle herding in the school system, children still grow into their own interests, and develop skill sets and intellectual processes that are uniquely their own. There are a million different lifestyles, career paths, educational paths, and vocations in society. Nobody is expressly forbidden from pursuing any path. In fact, it is mostly encouraged.

Then there is the one truly key sentence you have there, "...parents too tired from working all day to even care about their own kids." That is really the issue. We have somehow manage to pin our children's shortfalls on the school system. It has never been the school's role to raise, or even to be the primary educator of our children. That is the parents job. When children are having developmental or behavioral issues, parents should explore every possible avenue to find an environment that works. And to open a world to that child where he or she can explore interests and find activities that spark contentment and happiness. Abandoning the kids to television and video games doesn't cut it. Developing minds do develop differently when exposed to too much of those things. It's a major pitfall of the modern world.

[sarahsweets]

School is school. whether its homeschool or another school basic facts need to be learned. They (at least here) shove the kids through the grades for their state stats. My 12 year old failed have the year in language arts and they were trtying to tell me you still has a c for the year...but she obviously missed HALF a year for no reason. So I requested summer school which was a fight, but it seems to be helping and keeping things fresh for 7th grade. F**k the higher ups they dont know sh*t.

[salleh]

I was a sub in LA Unified for 8 years...and the one thing that I learned is that ....the "ivory towers" people ....folks who are the professors of education, and folks who are the authors of books on education .....I find, to have a fairly Out -of- Touch with the realities of the actual classroom set of ideas .....


.....for one example ....I don't know the current situation, but when I was teaching (k through 6th)from the first grade all the way through .....every single classroom had double desks......2 kids to a desk ....no exceptions .....


....while this might be a swell idea in theory, kids "helping" each other with their work.....was only too obviously, an Ivory Tower idea ....in reality, it worked like that once in a blue moon .....but no one really tested out that idea ....until huge amounts of money were spent putting that theory into place....and those desks last a LONGGGGG time .....



.....and to be fari....some practices which gave me an uncomfortable feeling ....like making the kids stand in line before school, after recess, and after lunch, out in the school yard, and then be dismissed to their classrooms...and the teachers, standing beside their own group, as if they were prison guards or something .....


,.....actually ...turns out to be just about the only viable way to do it ....yah, it is regimented ...but one afternoon, as I stood there, I looked around and thought ..."holy c***, this school has 1,200 students.....NO WONDER they make 'em stand in line quietly !"


Can you imagine the chaos if 1,200 kids all under 12 just piled into the classrooms when the bell rang ???.....YIKES !

[Asier3d]

Is true that today´s life makes the life harder with stress and an insane level of exigency but, don´t look to the system but compare with the rest of population to determinate if adhd symptoms are worse and if they are an obstacle, not to be successful in society, but to be and act like the other people.

You talk everytime about children and education but… adults? What happen to them? Trying to find the problem outside is the better way to not solve anything

[Etcetera]

I think education fails for a lot of people, whether they have ADHD or not.

And yes, even adults who appear to be successful, may be the victim of the failing school system. Maybe their lives would have been more joyful (not using the word successful on purpose. Joy is more important than success), their career choices more beneficial for society,...

The way I see it, is that a) often education is regarded as a cost, rather than an investment in the future (and nowadays, we want to see results NOW rather than see them twenty years from now) and b) sometimes people change to change because it'll look fancy on their resume and c) no one dares to do a complete overhaul (although it would be necessary).

[BluegrassBound]

I disagree with the two types of people. In your own post you contradict yourself. In the begining you pigeon hole us to 2 types of thinking. Then go on to tell us the education system has done us wrong because we are so different. Which one is it??

As for the school system... I agree its structured all wrong. This has been my personal belief for years. We need to teach children and anybody for that matter, based on the way they individualy assimilate information.

For example visual leaners need to be taught differently than auditory or kinesthetic. Some people are a combo of one or more way of learning. Kids need to grouped together this way. Logic would assume if they learn one way, that group also thinks in a similar fashion. Which would amplify peer to peer learning. In this method you would not be trying to teach a kid in a manner that he will never asimilate the information.

I believe children wouldn't struggle and excell better.

The next part of my redesign of the education system is a bit more contreversial. I believe we should teach children heavier academic loads in the subject matter they excell in or are truely interested in. Then worry about mildly rounding their education with other basic learning necessities. Do I care whether a research scientist who may cure cancer one day learns how to properly structure a haiku poem. Seems like useless info for that person.
I mean trying to beat Algebra into my good friends head when was growing up was very useful. Considering the fact that everybody else around him knew he was going to be an artist. He excelled early at drawing and painting. Which is how he makes a living these days.

The hard thing to tackle here in the US is the already existing education system structure. Which has unions of teachers who will push back, not to mention administrators. It would require new training and diagnostic processes. People who were trained to monitor progress and alter individual learning plans when needed.

The people already running the system are going to have a hard time giving up control and familiarity. Even if its to the benefit of the children.

[mctavish23]

Here's The Evidence Based Deal ...

ADHD disrupts the one type of Attention defined as an Out Put Function of the

brain (i.e., Sustained or Persistent Attention - the ability to "stick to it" long

enough to complete the task at hand in a timely manner; compared to peers).

Sustained or Persistent Attention is an artifact of Working Memory; the Executive

Function impairment, determined to be the core deficit for ADHD Predominantly

Inattentive Type (formerly called "ADD").

Also, on average, 50% of ADHD individuals have a comorbid Specific Learning Disability

(SLD), which obviously adds to the already high stress level associated with school.

As if that's not enough, here's why this has NOTHING to do with "types" of people :

The High School Drop Out Rate for ADHD individuals has held steady at 35 % for the

last 12+ years; while the latest (2007) HS Drop Out Rate for non-ADHD peers, was

8.7 % (across all ethnic groups).

However, college is WORSE; in that only 5% of ADHD individuals graduate; compared

to 39 - 40% for non- ADHD peers.

In closing, I DO AGREE that School Systems have failed ADHD students; largely due

to the pressing need for regular class room teachers to receive adequate training in

recognizing the Executive Function impairments that define the disorder.

Hope that helps.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

[tortilaman]

This just made me think of this.


Our school system is failing the country on so many levels. No just elementary school or anything, preschool on up through university there is a huge problem. Sooooo many problems. I'm not sure they will ever be fixed. The idea that somebody knows what they want to do with the rest of their life at the age of 18 is simply preposterous. Nobody is an adult at 18. People wonder why everybody has a "mid-life crisis" and it's because that's how the system is setup. Not having a mid-life crisis is like winning the lottery in being an adult at 18 and knowing how you're going to live the rest of your life.

[ADDinHDefgHi?!]

School never did me no good, cept for teaching me how to do no good...

I was held back in pre school, I should have known I didn't fit, actually I knew back then someone had made a mistake. When I finally made it to kindergarten I felt like I was being punished every day, it was horrible. I was a loner and didn't get along with the kids.

By 1st grade I started to use my artistic abilities to win over teachers and gain influence. I began to enjoy recess and any time that allowed me to draw or read a good book.

By Junior High everyone figured I was going to be a professional artist and I just drifted along and started getting into all kinds of trouble.

I think school is good for some and not for others. For me I'm grateful for the good friends I had throughout elementary school. My childhood was fun.

By High School I stopped going to school half the time, I dropped out 3 months before I was supposed to graduate. I got my idea. I mean GED! but idea fits too...

My family, friends, music, skateboard, surfboard are what got me through school. I always felt there was something wrong and false about schools. I don't think that schools are adequately equipped to handle the needs of all the individual needs of the student. We all learn differently. For some school is fine the way it is.

I did end up making a living through my art, however if I didn't have that I don't know where I'd be right now. I despised nearly every day spent at school from kindergarten to 12th grade. I always felt that I knew the subject better than the teacher, or that the subject was pointless since I couldn't understand it for the life of me.

I failed algebra three times, but I always got A's in English. Ironically I teach music part time now but I try to make it fun and I don't have a formula. Every kid is different and learns differently. Teachers are way underpaid, yet the future generations are in their hands.

A Change Is Gonna (gotta) Come... (or else!)..

[Luvmybully]

Originally Posted by Monkey Bean

Then there is the one truly key sentence you have there, "...parents too tired from working all day to even care about their own kids." That is really the issue. We have somehow manage to pin our children's shortfalls on the school system. It has never been the school's role to raise, or even to be the primary educator of our children. That is the parents job. When children are having developmental or behavioral issues, parents should explore every possible avenue to find an environment that works. And to open a world to that child where he or she can explore interests and find activities that spark contentment and happiness. Abandoning the kids to television and video games doesn't cut it. Developing minds do develop differently when exposed to too much of those things. It's a major pitfall of the modern world.

FAR too many people view the public school system as a free babysitting service. They think it's their RIGHT to have the schools watch their kids for them before and after school hours so they can go to work.

Kids are spending more and more time in institution-type settings. It is stressful for them to spend the VAST majority of their waking hours forced to be in groups of kids. They don't get enough breaks from the constant strain of social pressures to just relax and be alone. Of course something's going to give, they can only take so much.

It is not just the schools that is the problem, it is society's views in general about what they will accept for their children. You cant blame the school system when the parents are not willing to accept a mediocre lifestyle but ARE willing to accept a mediocre environment for their children to be raised in.

[Lunacie]

Where did Insane Control get to? Did s/he actually want to have a discussion?

Or did s/he just want to make a pronouncement with no room for debate?

Why hasn't s/he responded to any of the posts in this thread?

[BluegrassBound]

Originally Posted by tortilaman

This just made me think of this.


Our school system is failing the country on so many levels. No just elementary school or anything, preschool on up through university there is a huge problem. Sooooo many problems. I'm not sure they will ever be fixed. The idea that somebody knows what they want to do with the rest of their life at the age of 18 is simply preposterous. Nobody is an adult at 18. People wonder why everybody has a "mid-life crisis" and it's because that's how the system is setup. Not having a mid-life crisis is like winning the lottery in being an adult at 18 and knowing how you're going to live the rest of your life.

What movie or tv show is that clip from??

I agree its impossible to know exactly what someone wants to be by 18 years of age.
Do you think we could culture young minds from an earlier age to the general side of academics they excel in or enjoy? I clearly loved science at a young age. Excelled in them and have a job in a related field. Would I have benefited from more science education instead of say the dissection of Shakespeare's a Mid Summers Nights Dream. Which clearly bored the hell out of me.

Could that have benefitted me? Maybe, or Maybe not??

I think we need to stop trying to patch and fix the Public school system. We need to rethink this from scratch. More of a tear it down to the ground and rebuild from there.

[mhyper790]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

School is school. whether its homeschool or another school basic facts need to be learned. They (at least here) shove the kids through the grades for their state stats. My 12 year old failed have the year in language arts and they were trtying to tell me you still has a c for the year...but she obviously missed HALF a year for no reason. So I requested summer school which was a fight, but it seems to be helping and keeping things fresh for 7th grade. F**k the higher ups they dont know sh*t.

I can relate.. I want to a school which was highly rated, one of the top in the country.. They too just pushed me along..I felt as if they did this to get ratings.

IMO...Schools do have to look out for the dollars. They have to ensure they can get every penny for their children. So I don't blame teacher's when a school system fails to meet and teach Children with special needs. I blame the board of education. They are the decision makers and they decide ultimately how the process works.

Biggest problem is what a lot of people face not just in the school system but in almost every company.. COMMUNICATION!!!... We have little to none of this going on in today's world. Thats why things are just messed up... Everywhere.

I don't mean the hi, by, how are you doing type stuff. But real Communication that involves brain storming. Coming up with Idea, that promote team work, where teams of people are actively coming up with ways of improving upon a system.

In my job I have learned that communication is really what determines the success of a project or work effort. Most people hate it and they will hate you for bringing up points, but in the end things will run better and perform better. By the way those very same people that hate us people that call for meetings or bring concerns to the table... They will be complaining and whining in the background about how things never get done right. Or nothing ever gets accomplished.

So not anyone person or person(s) is to blame. This is community effort and so I say instead of complaining about do something about it. If it does not work out in the end, you can at least say you tried.

[Insane Control]

Acceptance and justification of incompetence in our social system is not in the direction of betterment for us all. Have you given up? Do you just accept everything because it seems too hard to stand up for what you know is wrong in this world?

And I went all the way through our educational system, raised in suburbia hell(though I had a blast with it all in retrospect) up to just short of a masters. Studied everything from psychology, sociology, economics and philosophy as I could in the time allotted because I wanted to understand as much as I could in all the arrays of human life and perspectives as I could. And I learn every day, as we all should do. In order to, unintentionally at the time, but through great fortune, I realized I was here to say things and learn things about this world to give others a new perspective; though it's costing me my reputation in this society... And, in turn, to gain new lessons and perspectives of my own. All I want to do now is to help others understand the reality around them and help them through this ridiculous excuse for a civilization, but I haven't learned enough yet about how to accurately communicate what I know without negative side-effects when I only have good intentions... Thinking about starting with stand-up, if I can figure that out emotionally.

And this writing might be a bit too invasive to some of you, and I'm sorry, but I haven't learned that concept yet as it relates to emotional sensitivity...it's just an inefficient use of our time(to me), but if not done correctly will cause more time to be taken for emotion side-effects to wear off. Thus; back to square one. So I apologize, and hope to learn something from you by any constructive criticism necessary.