How BAD can it get???

[samson2211]

Without the whole subjective / objective thing, and "it's all relative" and there are people out there who have it far worse ....etc., etc., etc., I'm pretty sure I have a spectaculary rubbish life in relation to the advantages I was born with. Last night, in an argument, my mother said I threw away / wasted / squandered my educational advantages, and stated very plainly her belief that, if other people with ADHD are able to hold down good jobs, families, have a good quality of life, motivate themselves (at least selectively), get out of their own way, not be a parasite... then I should too. That my circumstances are so extreme and defective and once my parents are gone I very likely face a life of B&Bs/night shelters/ homelessness, she attributes to some special sickness, and not ADHD, because if others can do it so too should I.

I read about ADHD being a spectrum disorder, some being more able to cope than others, but I feel there are very few anecdotes to back this up (or I'm missing them) The books are particularly depressing - they merely mention in passing that the consequences can be extreme - and then devote the rest of the book to anecdotes about lawyers who hit the wall, chaotic housewifes, self-employed wo/men with paperwork problems - people with possibly terrible problems but not with nothing left to loose; they still have lifes above and beyong basic bodily functions. (Yes, I know how hard some of these people are struggling to do so, but I struggle just as hard and can't). The problem, is stated, as one of fulfilling your enormous potential, with advice like set your alarm clock early, buy a planner, mediation etc.

They even recommend personal assistants, financial advisers, farming out the boring stuff in life to an army of slaves -WTF? Some of these books read like Chicken Soup for ADHD; pep talks about how awesome you are, such mavericks, and with a little bit of tweaking you can fly, be the amazing person you knew you were born to be. What about being diagnosed too late, buried at the bottom of a socio-economic hole so deep you'd have to be Superman to get out of that one. So are there people like me on the forum, people whose lives, because of ADHD, have hit rock bottom???

[ginniebean]

I've lost two posts trying to write something. I will give a response soon. But in a word, yes. Itcn be this bad and yes you're not alone.

[ginniebean]

Wow, I was really hoping others would chime in here because frankly it IS a really good topic, (for which I rep'd you btw)

You are right! The books have been accused of 'creaming' and that is, taking some of the highest functioning people with ADHD and using them as success stories.
They dole out tips like "use lists" and "post it notes' as if no one with adhd had ever thought of that before. Some of us could rent a storage locker for our lists.
Anyway, there is a thing called the 'script of wellness' and any deviation from this script is called 'making excuses', 'whining', 'being negative', etc...


Any critique of the program of wellness "I'm getting better and better every day!" is cast as FAILURE. Legitimate concerns, well you're not doing it right! This is fostered by books and by coaches who consistently will tell you 'you get out of it what you put into it' . We all know full well that there is a great disparity between the effort we put into something vs the end results. Yet magically this disappears in book and coaching land. There are no ineffective coaches just ADD'ers who didn't try hard enough.


Russell Barkley has nailed this so many times when he discusses these merchants by saying they are doing us no favours by presenting these high achievers as if they are the adhd norm. In fact, for some of us, it can be so utterly deflating.



I read the Hallowell book a full ten years before seeking treatment and the reason I didn't seek treatment back then was because I simply could not relate. It seemed to me that you had to be thriving pretty well, for help to work. I wasn't a lawyer, who btw never needed or wanted medication, (why present her as an example?) of a businessman who couldn't get his paperwork together, I was a MESS. There were no examples of people like me so I sincerely just thought.. there's no point in it for me. I've got too far to go, It would take me 15 years to get where these people are just starting!!! It's not that I don't think that those with higher functioning ADHD need to be represented but when they are the only ones represented then it becomes a farce.

I sincerely wish I had got help ten years earlier, and wish I'd read something a little more down to earth but.. oh well. There is a whole lot of covering going on, even here on the forums. We try and act like we've got it together but we don't. The shame, the uglier face of adhd is not represented that much. The public face of adhd, the acceptable face of adhd, are fog, day dreaming, forgetful, lateness and don't get me wrong these are really damaging, but they're also things people can easily understand as functions of the brain that aren't working.



The less public side, impulsiveness is still seen as stupid, is still moralized. You yelled! You need to get your act together, it's abusive, it's wrong, stop it! As if you can will the problems of impulsiveness away. As if you can try harder. Impulsiveness is very damaging, and just as much a part of brain function as forgetfulness and yet.. there is definitely a double standard.



The disgust and the contemp that is expressed towards us by our parents, our partners, our peers even at times.. this also doesn't get expressed. They are the barometers of our success, there is failure for us with each expression of contempt. We don't have the right to call them on it, they know what's best for us, they know what direction we should be moving in, and we give them that power. I think for me, self acceptance is the day I finally realise that it is ME who knows what is best for me. There is something so liberating in that.

Now, having said all this, is there hope? Yes, there is.



Two years ago, I lost everything, I lost my job, I lost my home, I was in deep debt. Two months ago, I became debt free, moved into my own home again, I'm starting over, but I'm back where I was pre total life screw over. I've put in place some structures (probably not enough yet) that will be there for me should the unthinkable happen again. It's quite possible that there is a lot more 'starting over' when you have adhd, but don't give up, you're worth the effort. Do it for you, because you need it, want it and deserve it. I am sorry if holding myself up as some 'shining example' which I am not, I struggle constantly, I feel like the bottom can come out at any time. but giving up, giving in.. well.. so far I haven't done that..

One step at a time, a small step, a standing in place step, whatever it takes, they add up.

Decide on ONE area of weakness, the one that causes you the most harm.. find it.. and start working on that ONE.. move forward.. slowly, agonizingly, and find people who will be there with you thru it.

This forum, well I don't know how I would have crawled out of that hole had I not had this place, I found good people here, who cared, who commiserated, who understood, who didn't judge me, and who encouraged me.

That's worth it's weight in gold.

I hope that helps.

[Retromancer]

There are a number of forum members that are insecurely perched on the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder. Many -- understandably -- don't wish to attract attention to themselves -- but they are emphatically here. The worst off, those in prison and homeless, are less likely to be represented on this forum because it is after all an on-line forum -- you have to have access to the internet to participate. I am stable and not near rock bottom -- but you can see it from where I stand, if you peer down. (I am a downwardly mobile product of the American working class, if you were curious.)

I would suggest checking out the books and videos of Dr. Russell Barkley for a well documented counterbalance to the wishful thinking that is present in the popular literature about AD(H)D. Here's a good video to start with:

ADHD: Life Course Outcomes and Treatment Implications

[plank80]

Yes I have hit rock bottom but Im on the way up again(if u can call it that). Starting work on tues after years of unemployment and doin all sorts of illegal **** to get money.

I narrowly avoided going to jail a couple of years ago which was a kick up the **** I needed. With the help of friends and family I got out of my old ways and started to clean up my act.

Moved to England to get away frm bad influences and been sleeping on my mas living room floor for 8 months. Im lucky I had hers to go to.

Now Im looking for a car and my own place but Im scared as well that everythings just gonna fall in around me again without the support in place once Im left to my own devices again.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by ginniebean

Wow, I was really hoping others would chime in here because frankly it IS a really good topic, (for which I rep'd you btw)

You are right! The books have been accused of 'creaming' and that is, taking some of the highest functioning people with ADHD and using them as success stories.
They dole out tips like "use lists" and "post it notes' as if no one with adhd had ever thought of that before. Some of us could rent a storage locker for our lists.
Anyway, there is a thing called the 'script of wellness' and any deviation from this script is called 'making excuses', 'whining', 'being negative', etc...


Any critique of the program of wellness "I'm getting better and better every day!" is cast as FAILURE. Legitimate concerns, well you're not doing it right! This is fostered by books and by coaches who consistently will tell you 'you get out of it what you put into it' . We all know full well that there is a great disparity between the effort we put into something vs the end results. Yet magically this disappears in book and coaching land. There are no ineffective coaches just ADD'ers who didn't try hard enough.


Russell Barkley has nailed this so many times when he discusses these merchants by saying they are doing us no favours by presenting these high achievers as if they are the adhd norm. In fact, for some of us, it can be so utterly deflating.



I read the Hallowell book a full ten years before seeking treatment and the reason I didn't seek treatment back then was because I simply could not relate. It seemed to me that you had to be thriving pretty well, for help to work. I wasn't a lawyer, who btw never needed or wanted medication, (why present her as an example?) of a businessman who couldn't get his paperwork together, I was a MESS. There were no examples of people like me so I sincerely just thought.. there's no point in it for me. I've got too far to go, It would take me 15 years to get where these people are just starting!!! It's not that I don't think that those with higher functioning ADHD need to be represented but when they are the only ones represented then it becomes a farce.

I sincerely wish I had got help ten years earlier, and wish I'd read something a little more down to earth but.. oh well. There is a whole lot of covering going on, even here on the forums. We try and act like we've got it together but we don't. The shame, the uglier face of adhd is not represented that much.

Wow, you really nailed it!
While I haven't hit 'rock bottom', it's only because of very supportive family members and a patient friend who is willing to listen to my venting, mentors at work I've met along the way (who even though are no longer working with me, had a positive lasting effect on me)... but even with that strong support system, I can barely keep my head above water, though I try, try, and try again, and never stop trying and finding ways to improve myself. I can't imagine how terrible it must be for people who don't have a support system.

I feel like ADHD, when it's not presented as an outright fraud or excuse for lazy parents and bratty kids, is presented, in adults, as oh this person is a flighty "oh look a squirrel" character, an absentminded professor.. now here's how they can make their creative genius work for them!
I find that ADHD and especially adult ADHD is very rarely presented as the potentially crippling condition it can be and often is. It's not just a matter of "oh you have certain weak points you can work on (like everyone else)". It goes way beyond that. Of course, ADHD is a spectrum, and those on the milder end can do reasonably well with coping and organizational strategies in place. The rest are constantly overwhelmed by a variety of cognitive problems that affect most everything. In my case, I have severe problems with processing information (though not written information) and sequencing. Do I work on it? Of course, constantly. And if I do better in one area, I do far worse in another. It's like I have very few 'resources' and if my brain power is channelled toward improving in one area, the rest suffers.
So yeah, Michael Phelps. That's great for him, really, I mean it. But don't point to him as a way of saying "because he has ADHD an is an Olympic champion, therefore you must be high achieving too". I agree sports is a really great way of channeling the excess energy of ADHD and helping achieve discipline and focus. But not every hyperactive kid is that good at sports. And all the non hyperactive kids... well a lot of them probably have some clumsiness issues going on.
But yeah... people out there... the ones who are supposed to help us help ourselves... really need to stop trivialising ADHD. I'm all for being positive, but sometimes glossing over the ugly reality doesn't help the many people who are living it... people who these books are supposed to help. It is not just being hyper, or being dreamy, ditzy, or not paying attention to things that don't interest you (I pay attention diligently, it doesn't stop me from making mistakes all over the place). If it were, conventional organizational and time management techniques would have helped many of us a long time ago.

[ginniebean]

Lemming, you make a very good point. Had it not been for my family I'd have been homeless, living out of my car and who knows what would have become so far me. I also owe my sisters lot for helping me with getting my finances set up so I have a safety net.

ADHD can and often does have dire consequences, and it is trivialized. It's up to us to speak out about that!

[keyser]

Well, I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said I wasn't successful in life. Without wanting to sound like a total ***, I'm one of the smartest people I know, so I've been able to use intellect to play the system a little.

You learn what you need to know in order to progress your career, move on before you're 'found out' and be a good guy to make sure you get a good reference. But what price success? Always worrying that you'll start to sink and fail at your job, seeming to have to put in so much extra energy just to keep up? Frankly, it sucks... I can't blame people for being unable or unwilling to play that game.

But, here's the upside... a smart guy who knows how to work the system can become a very top performer in a short space of time once they get the correct treatment. Think of it like training for a marathon with a backpack full of rocks - take that off and you'll feel you can take on the world.

My point is, you may not end up being the CEO of a multi-national company, but the coping skills you learn just to face the day with crippling ADHD can help you be successful when you come out the other side.

[Retromancer]

You really don't get it do you? Did you actually bother to tread the OP's post? Oh and yes you really do sound like a total ****.

Originally Posted by keyser

Well, I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said I wasn't successful in life. Without wanting to sound like a total ***, I'm one of the smartest people I know, so I've been able to use intellect to play the system a little.

You learn what you need to know in order to progress your career, move on before you're 'found out' and be a good guy to make sure you get a good reference. But what price success? Always worrying that you'll start to sink and fail at your job, seeming to have to put in so much extra energy just to keep up? Frankly, it sucks... I can't blame people for being unable or unwilling to play that game.

But, here's the upside... a smart guy who knows how to work the system can become a very top performer in a short space of time once they get the correct treatment. Think of it like training for a marathon with a backpack full of rocks - take that off and you'll feel you can take on the world.

My point is, you may not end up being the CEO of a multi-national company, but the coping skills you learn just to face the day with crippling ADHD can help you be successful when you come out the other side.

[ADDinHDefgHi?!]

IMO it can get pretty damn bad if you don't have a supportive family or social network to help you out. And even in the cases where people get a lot of help from their families or whoever I still think there is a lot of emotional pain and guilt that comes with having to rely on others too often. On both sides too, and it just gets worse over time if it's not dealt with.

Part of the problem imo is too many people don't even know what ADHD is. Treatment has helped me a lot but I still have 30 years worth of dysfunctional habits to unlearn that are a direct result of untreated/unrecognized ADHD. I didn't seek out an ADHD dx, it found me, and I realize that I hardly knew anything about it when I was first diagnosed 3 years ago.

Now I can see that it isn't normal to get evicted from every other apartment you live in and live literally one or two missed paychecks away from being out on the street. But I'm not wasted every night now so some things are clearer to me. Now I think long and hard about those Jury Duty notices before I throw them in the trash....(no, I don't throw them away anymore, but I don't open them either and I don't know where the most recent one is.)

Basically I think it can get really bad if you don't have someone to help you out. My Dad is undiagnosed ADHD and in his sixties, he spends half his days calling various bill collectors trying to talk his way out of some debts that occurred and continue to occur because he doesn't pay attention to his money in a way that relates to the future.

I mean I love my Dad, but I see so many similarities in our behavior that it scares me. I have the same problems and am trying to adapt some better coping strategies. If he didn't have my Mom and didn't have the success he had early in his career (which allowed him to capitalize on his strengths such as coming up with ideas and traveling to meet with clients).he would very likely be in a much worse place rt now...and financially he's not in a good place at all...his former business partner is doing quite well though...

I know plenty of barely functioning drug addicted people who just get by on a combination of some horrible job and some not so legal activities, yet they are incredibly smart. I can't help but think they're probably not even near the bottom of the "how bad can ADHD get?" spectrum.

[stef]

I really see the OP's point - when I first read the Halowelll books I was just so relieved that there was a BOOK about how my mind works!
I've been fortunate but I see how easy it is to hit rock bottom;

The line that kills me is "hire an assistant". THAT'S MY JOB. I'm an assistant in a law firm. As if everyone reading those books already had some kind of career where they had the means/possibility to hire staff.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by stef

I really see the OP's point - when I first read the Halowelll books I was just so relieved that there was a BOOK about how my mind works!
I've been fortunate but I see how easy it is to hit rock bottom;

The line that kills me is "hire an assistant". THAT'S MY JOB. I'm an assistant in a law firm. As if everyone reading those books already had some kind of career where they had the means/possibility to hire staff.

Oh, that one is classic... Chances are, if someone was highly functioning and financially well-off enough to Be able to employ an assistant, they wouldn't be in that state to begin with!

[phantasm]

I really appreciate this thread.

I have hit my own rock bottom where I live in a constant state of overwhelm, feel totally inadequate with myself and what I have accomplished in life and am depressed at the fact that I feel like I need to be hand held through life.

I have heard from so many of my family members that i just don't try enough, or could do better, or why did I quite that last job, blah blah blah, and I have yet to figure out how to completely and efficiently take care of myself. I am very blessed to have a husband who tries to understand what I'm going through, but even that is up to a point. I am in constant worry if he were to get called for deployment because then I would really have to take care of everything. And he is so good at keeping it all straight. Or God forbid, if something ever happened to him. I hate that i don't have the confidence in myself to keep it all together.

I would love to learn how to dream and achieve it, just following those simple steps without completely forgetting why it was my dream to begin with. i would love to read a "self help" book and actually successfully implement those ideas and be all I can be. And do it again and again and again.

At this point, I am at the mercy of my doctors and myself to learn about my ADHD. Then get the coaching that I need to build my confidence. My friends and family just stare at me with a blank look on their face and wonder what the heck I am so stumped on. I have two arms, two legs and a brain. i have no excuses, right?!?!

Good grief!

[Verile]

It gets as bad as you let it get. I know it's the hardest thing in the world but only you can prevent your own downfall. No one is going to come save you. Do all the research you can physically and mentally endure and keep trying new ways to save yourself. If you don't you'll perish.

[Spacemaster]

Sari Solden mentioned hiring an assistant and/or cleaning service in her book about women with ADHD.

My first reaction was an emphatic "Humph!" As if I wouldn't have already done so if I could afford it! Indeed! I can't count how many times I have said, "I need a personal assistant."

The only way I could see that happening is if I married a rich NT. Yeeeeeahh right.

I sort of feel glad to be able to look at those self-help books and just say "Nope, doesn't work for me." Not glad that I can't keep it together, but glad to be able to dismiss those stupid books.

I used to read some of those years ago, would get all charged up and ready to change my ways, and get let down every. single. time. Now it doesn't bother me