Do I have ADHD and Asperger's? Or just ADHD? (long post, hope you like to read)

[Geno]

I'm diagnosed with severe combined type ADHD, which my pdoc says is "one of the most extreme I've seen in all my years". After looking up Asperger's syndrome in the DSM, I seem to just barely make the minimum requirements for a diagnosis. (I have all of the symptoms of ADHD in the DSM, though) Is it possible to have both? Many of the AS qualities I have could be attributed to ADHD as well, but one or two can't.

Problem is, I've heard people with AS usually have little to no desire for a lot of friends and generally don't like people very much other than their parents, they're unable to see when people are getting upset/annoyed, they lack compassion, they're very out of touch with their feelings, and they make decisions solely based on logic without taking emotions in to account. Oh, and they strictly adhere to routines.

I love people, they just don't like me back most of the time, which ended in developing bad social anxiety. I push people's buttons sometimes because I'm an attention seeker, but I can clearly see that they are, in fact, annoyed by my behavior. I've always had intense interests, but I don't constantly discuss it with others constantly like many AS people do, unless they have an interest or semi-interest in it. I'm more compassionate than most people, I can't even watch gory things on TV because all it'll do is depress me because I can't help but put myself in their shoes. I have no problems detecting sarcasm either.

I'm more in touch with my emotions/sensitive than any guy I know, I prefer intimacy and romance(with a girl I actually like) over sex and, at 19 years old, know there's a massive difference between infatuation and love, and I would be totally fine with getting married right now and staying with the same girl forever. (provided I actually did love her.). I cry a LOT, because when no one is around I make no effort to hold back because crying actually DOES make me feel better after.

I do use logic far more than most people, but I don't ONLY use logic. I take feelings in to account too.

I don't know if this has to do with AS or just more severe forms of autism, but I had no developmental delays and actually learned to do things earlier than most kids, except for of course ADHD related stuff. And finally, I don't only not follow routines, but I dislike them and prefer to just do things whenever I want to/whenever they need to be done without an exact time.

The asperger's traits I DO have? (I'll put a ** next to the ones that I don't think are associated with ADHD) I sometimes stare at people without noticing I'm staring(although I'm not actually focused on them, just zoned out.), I interrupt people a LOT, I often forget to make eye contact although I'm getting better at it**, I think visually a lot, significantly more than most NT people do, but not to the extent many people with AS I've seen and I think in words often to*, I disliked people around my own age until I was a teenager, because no one could hold an interesting conversation. As a result I'd get along better with adults/older from when I was 5 to even now(although this may just be attributed to my IQ being 135.). If something is going to happen that effects me, I go crazy unless I have at least a rough estimate as to when, "soon" is never good enough**, I have an incredibly strong interest in pharmacology and have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours reading books and reading articles about it(although I don't discuss it endlessly with people unless they show an interest).** Oh, one more. I'm an inflexible thinker according to most people, but I don't think that's true because almost all of my views are based on logic.**(This doesn't contradict the above, my decisions are based on emotions and logic. I'm referring to things like: I believe war is pointless unless somebody invades your country because all it does is kill people and drain money from the economy, and I'm agonistic rather than religious or atheist because no point of view has provided proof.)

The fact I can very easily put myself in other people's shoes and am as in touch with my emotions as I am would make me discount AS as a possibility instantly, if it weren't for the ** symptoms up there. Could those things be either:
A. lesser known ADHD symptoms too
B. a coincidence
C. I have a case of Severe ADHD with very mild aspergers?

What ADHD symptoms typically wouldn't be found in Asperger's? Which Asperger's symptoms typically wouldn't be found in ADHD?

[Lisa_Mac]

Based on what you've just said, I would say that you're just a regular guy with adhd. No aspergers. Many aspergers symptoms are similar to adhd because adhd is often a comorbid of AS.

ADHD is also a developmental disorder and I once read something about it being on the same spectrum as AS. (that was just someone's theory).

Being bored with conversation and needing more stimulation is not a sign of AS. People with AS are not able to be reciprocal in conversations so actually, all they really want to do is talk about what they are obsessed about at the time. Interrupting people is a sure sign of ADHD. You think it, you say it. You're impulsive. Being logical is the sign of a male brain, not autism.

Geno, are you of latin descent, Italian perhaps? Latin men are generally more in touch with their emotions than your average wasp.

None of the symptoms that you say are AS, really are. Staring at someone (or in someones direction) because you've zoned out is typically adhd.

Not making eye contact is also not necessarily AS. Depends why. Does it actually hurt or embarrass you, or are you just constantly distracted.

Not all visual thinkers are autistic. Artistic people think in pictures often. And you think in words too? Normal

If you found that the kids your own age were boring, it just means you weren't interested in inane conversations about nothing. Your brain needed more stimulation than they could offer.

Having a strong interest is not necessary a sign of AS. Only if you talk about it and think about it to the exclusion of everything else and use it as the only way to communicate. i.e. when meeting people, instead of holding a conversation with them, you talk at them, about something that interests you, because after all, if it interests you, it has to interest them.

The main hallmarks of AS are the total obsession with specific subjects and the inability to communicate in a reciprocal way and to read social signals. (body language, etc.) Also, the absence of a Theory of Mind, where the person is not able to understand that someone thinks and is different to themselves. It's a mild high functioning form of autism and people with autism are not able to communicate their thoughts and interact with others. It's not that they don't WANT to, it's that they CAN'T.

I've noticed that there are plenty people who think that they are AS but in actual fact are just introverted/antisocial/not stimulated by normal boring social chit chat and perhaps also adhd.

If you don't want to go to a social gathering because you find the conversation boring than the problem is you need more mental stimulation.

Take care

Lx

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Lisa_Mac

Based on what you've just said, I would say that you're just a regular guy with adhd. No aspergers. Many aspergers symptoms are similar to adhd because adhd is often a comorbid of AS....

1. Thank you. I was so worried that I may have AS too, which would make my life even harder.

2. I am italian, good guess!

3. The only two things, after reading your post, that still just scream "Asperger's" are the fact I feel much better knowing exactly or roughly when something that effects me is going to happen, I pester people until they give me at least a rough estimate. And the fact I have such an intense interest in pharmacology, to the point where I need to read university textbooks about it now because nothing on the internet goes in-depth enough to tell me what I don't already know. I do have other interests, but my interest in pharmacology is more intense than I could describe and I literally can not learn enough about it. I really need to struggle to not bring it up to people who don't care, but I manage. Sometimes I do talk "at" people and end up spilling some complicated information that the person gets confused by like an asperger's person would do, but I conciously know that's not good and I stop myself.

4. As for the eye contact, I just forget to sometimes because I don't see the point. I'm not opposed to doing it nor does it make me feel weird unless the person is one of those people who seems to be looking in to my soul.

[Assumption]

Have you tried any of the online screening tests? They're by no means a diagnosis, but you might find them informative anyway.

What Lisa_Mac said pretty much echoed my thoughts, though. Although I don't think it's correct to say that people with Aspergers lack a theory of mind (an impairment in thinking about others' mental states, yes. Mind-blindness? That's going a little far, I think, especially when you're talking about the milder part of the spectrum?)

[Assumption]

Originally Posted by Geno

I feel much better knowing exactly or roughly when something that effects me is going to happen, I pester people until they give me at least a rough estimate.

That's just impatience, right?

[Lisa_Mac]

Originally Posted by Assumption

That's just impatience, right?

People with adhd are notoriously impatient. "I want it NOW or sooner" From what I've seen, people with AS are more likely to deliberate on something before making a decision. Anxiety is high over anything new and they also tend to like repetetive tasks and have VERY narrow interests. They concentrate on detail and often miss the bigger picture.



Lx

[Lisa_Mac]

Originally Posted by Geno

1. Thank you. I was so worried that I may have AS too, which would make my life even harder.

2. I am italian, good guess!

3. The only two things, after reading your post, that still just scream "Asperger's" are the fact I feel much better knowing exactly or roughly when something that effects me is going to happen, I pester people until they give me at least a rough estimate. And the fact I have such an intense interest in pharmacology, to the point where I need to read university textbooks about it now because nothing on the internet goes in-depth enough to tell me what I don't already know. I do have other interests, but my interest in pharmacology is more intense than I could describe and I literally can not learn enough about it. I really need to struggle to not bring it up to people who don't care, but I manage. Sometimes I do talk "at" people and end up spilling some complicated information that the person gets confused by like an asperger's person would do, but I conciously know that's not good and I stop myself.

4. As for the eye contact, I just forget to sometimes because I don't see the point. I'm not opposed to doing it nor does it make me feel weird unless the person is one of those people who seems to be looking in to my soul.

ADHD and AS are often present in the same families. I have both in my family and like you I have wondered whether I was AS. I've read A LOT about it.

I have read that sometimes people can have traces of AS but not enough to be diagnosed, because of the presence of the dna in their biological make up. But really, I think to be truly autistic, you need to have serious issues with communication, not just a slight possiblility. A lot of my problems socially can be put down to severe anxiety which is definitely adhd rather than anything else. Having a more introverted personality can also have the effect of making one more interested in non social pursuits.

Lx

[fracturedstory]

You can have both ADHD and Asperger's. I'm HFA and ADHD. I'm split right down the middle so it's easier to see the differences.

Okay, AS is not just as black and white as that. Every brain is different, even if the people have the same disorder. People with AS can want to make friends but have very poor social skills so they are clueless at how to do this, and often make many mistakes.

You don't need to have every symptom of AS to have AS. Not all need routines and some can be extremely emotional.

One theory on autism is it's because of experiencing too much of other emotions and their own that it shuts them down.

Social development is different in each person with AS too. Also, by the time you're an adult you have probably developed skills you didn't have in childhood.

It's common in AS to develop early and on time. Late development would have you diagnosed with high functioning autism. It's common that they get along better with people either younger or older to them.

I'm not saying you are AS, just wanted to clear a few things up.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by fracturedstory

You can have both ADHD and Asperger's. I'm HFA and ADHD. I'm split right down the middle so it's easier to see the differences.

Okay, AS is not just as black and white as that. Every brain is different, even if the people have the same disorder. People with AS can want to make friends but have very poor social skills so they are clueless at how to do this, and often make many mistakes.

You don't need to have every symptom of AS to have AS. Not all need routines and some can be extremely emotional.

One theory on autism is it's because of experiencing too much of other emotions and their own that it shuts them down.

Social development is different in each person with AS too. Also, by the time you're an adult you have probably developed skills you didn't have in childhood.

It's common in AS to develop early and on time. Late development would have you diagnosed with high functioning autism. It's common that they get along better with people either younger or older to them.

I'm not saying you are AS, just wanted to clear a few things up.

What are other differences between high-functioning autism and AS? I'm curious, all I can find is that AS = normal development and must have 85+ IQ, high-functioning autism = may develop late and may have a lower IQ.

Is there a moderate-functioning autism between AS and the classic hand-flapping nonvocal autistic that's been known for much longer? I only hear of HFA people and LFA people.

[fracturedstory]

Originally Posted by Lisa_Mac

It's a mild high functioning form of autism and people with autism are not able to communicate their thoughts and interact with others. It's not that they don't WANT to, it's that they CAN'T.

I've noticed that there are plenty people who think that they are AS but in actual fact are just introverted/antisocial/not stimulated by normal boring social chit chat and perhaps also adhd.

If you don't want to go to a social gathering because you find the conversation boring than the problem is you need more mental stimulation.

Take care

Lx

It can be learnt though.

I'm actually not interested in people and that's the way I was as a child. It's not that I thought the things they talked about was boring as I do now but because I never thought about them.

[Lisa_Mac]

Originally Posted by fracturedstory

It can be learnt though.

I'm actually not interested in people and that's the way I was as a child. It's not that I thought the things they talked about was boring as I do now but because I never thought about them.

Thanks fracturedstory, your input is very interesting and valuable in a thread such as this.

Were you quite content to just not interact at all with another person or group of people?

take care

Lx

[fracturedstory]

Originally Posted by Lisa_Mac

Thanks fracturedstory, your input is very interesting and valuable in a thread such as this.

Were you quite content to just not interact at all with another person or group of people?

take care

Lx

Quite content. I would draw cats and dogs, learn about dinosaurs, and live in my mind which was a highly visual world influenced by movies, especially that movie Sidekicks.
It just never occurred to me to interact with others. However I would make any attempt to get to interact with their animals.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by fracturedstory

Quite content. I would draw cats and dogs, learn about dinosaurs, and live in my mind which was a highly visual world influenced by movies, especially that movie Sidekicks.
It just never occurred to me to interact with others. However I would make any attempt to get to interact with their animals.

How often do you think in words? Almost never? Rarely?

My mind is very visual at times, I'll oftentimes imagine my future(or sometimes past) as if it were a movie in my head, playing scenes more dramatically or doing things I'd never actually do, played in a way that makes me look like the hero every time. If I was thinking about the past I'd think about what it would have been like if the situation went perfectly(not in a depressive, ruminating way), if I'm thinking about the future I'll imagine it going perfectly. I'll also sometimes imagine myself in a completely ridiculous situation that'd never happen even in a perfect world. Thank God for being able to do that, the above was what I did in school to fight off the urges to jump out a window and run anywhere else but there.

I'm not sure if anyone could do the above or if it's "abnormal". People always say I'm great at painting out scenes and pictures with words.

[fracturedstory]

Originally Posted by Geno

What are other differences between high-functioning autism and AS? I'm curious, all I can find is that AS = normal development and must have 85+ IQ, high-functioning autism = may develop late and may have a lower IQ.

Is there a moderate-functioning autism between AS and the classic hand-flapping nonvocal autistic that's been known for much longer? I only hear of HFA people and LFA people.

I hand flap...and so do many others with AS. But I know what you mean. Non-verbal severe autistics do it more.

AS and HFA are pretty similar. One thing I notice is facial features are different, more rigid, as is the body posture. HFA is pretty varied though. A person who can be diagnosed either HFA or AS could be diagnosed either HFA or AS. People can go from severe autism to HFA after they start building more skills. There is a moderate functioning autism too. Verbal, still has a lack of social skills, quite rigid behaviours, need routine, needs a carer, etc. I'm unsure about IQ but maybe just below average.

What I think doctors do is look at how the symptoms manifest. I've got a lot of rigid behaviours still though I've recently developed this thing called empathy, I have some really classic symptoms such as not liking change, needing routines, and severe sensory issues and the explosive meltdowns. Although I do try to hold them back. I was delayed but not severely. It was still enough to say this child doesn't have appropriate self care skills to their development age. I couldn't learn in a classroom.

AS is most likely diagnosed where the development seems average apart from social skills and there are still some symptoms of rigidity but it's not as pronounced in classic autism. They interact more with typical children though struggle with it because they don't know the right social response and have an impaired theory of mind.
Hand flapping if it happens is reduced to times of stress. When they have a high IQ AS is almost always diagnosed. It's not always though and different doctors have their own opinion on how to diagnose it.
There's less rigidity in face and body. You can't tell someone has AS by looking at them. Not usually. They sometimes have the wide eyed stare and may not look directly at a person, but they don't have a tight body posture like in autism. One thing that is more common is motor skill issues.

Not a whole lot of differences and by 2013 Asperger's will be merged with HFA.

[Assumption]

Originally Posted by fracturedstory

Okay, AS is not just as black and white as that. Every brain is different, even if the people have the same disorder. People with AS can want to make friends but have very poor social skills so they are clueless at how to do this, and often make many mistakes.

Hmmmmmmm. As you know, I've been thinking about myself a lot lately (along the same lines as Geno). I think I'm probably not AS/-pergers, just BAP, but still. I just noticed that I was feeling the textures on the end of the tv remote with my lips 30 minutes while watching the Sopranos (I don't know why I watch that show, I never have any idea what's going on! It's probably just the accents but I can never follow gangster movies/tv shows).

What is the meaning of the social reciprocity criterion? I understand the concept of sharing and tit for tat, but am almost never motivated to ask people how their lives are going during a conversation. Usually they ask me, I ramble a bit, and then the conversation ends. When I do remember to ask them, I find it difficult to feign interest in the answer (unless it truly is interesting!)

Self-diagnosing AS seems pretty much impossible to do reliably. Also, I think it's even harder to do with adults because they may have learned some of the social skills they lacked as children. Looking back to myself as a kid, well, I remember feeling like a total outsider. Everyone thought I was a complete geek/nerd of the worst sort. But I don't remember THAT well exactly how I thought/behaved - it's too long ago - and we can't thoroughly assess 1990s-Assumption without a time machine

OK ramble over.