Was this an intrusive thought or a very short delusion?

[Kamina369]

I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I need closure to make sure I'm not going crazy (please don't judge me.) A few weeks ago, I was sitting outside on the back porch swing. During this time I was trying to self correct a tongue thrust (would take awhile to explain here) that made my TMJ worse. So naturally I was thinking about teeth. (This is where is gets weird), all of a sudden I get the thought that one of my teeth just got arrested (please don't laugh, I'm actually scared by this). At the same time I had thoughts of a stereotypical black gangsta in my head, so maybe the thoughts about teeth, and the other thought got conflated in muddled thinking that might be normal for OCD, but maybe that's also how delusions start. This thought lasted a only few seconds, after which I started panicking. Even though the thought was bizarre, it's the length that's been getting to me because it makes it hard to determine weather it is a delusion or not. If one of the characteristics of delusions is that they are held with absolute certainty, then if I realized it was illogical then it couldn't be a delusion. But I have heard of delusions that were short, so I'm really worried. I'm currently on Vyvanse 60 mg, and Tenex, so please tell me if this was just an intrusive thought or a delusion, I'm sorry if this was the wrong forum to ask this question.

[Geno]

It sounds like a short delusion. I've only had them during episodes of psychosis brought on by a combination of stimulants, malnutrition, dehydration, and being awake 4 days. I realized the delusions I had were illogical while still having them, for example, one delusion I had during one of these episodes was that I thought the people in the TV show I was watching were my real life friends and I was in the room with them, then I realized "wait, that can't be, they're on TV and I'm here.". One of the characteristics of delusions is that they are held with absolute certainty for their duration, once it's over you can realize it's illogical. I'd talk to the doctor about it, it's probably nothing, but worth checking out.

[Assumption]

I'm not an expert. But if you have OCD, and you dismissed the thought pretty quickly as untrue, then you're probably worrying about it too much.

How long would you say you felt it was true for?

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Assumption

I'm not an expert. But if you have OCD, and you dismissed the thought pretty quickly as untrue, then you're probably worrying about it too much.

How long would you say you felt it was true for?

Not necessarily - When I was in psychosis only a few delusions lasted longer than 10 seconds, most were very quick.

[Assumption]

You have to look at this in a Bayesian manner. If his diagnosis is OCD (which involves intrusive thoughts), he hasn't suffered from delusions in the past, and this one was very short (as in, it was dismissed pretty much as soon as it was entertained) then inferring that he actually had a delusion may be leaping to conclusions. It's a possibility, but it's not the most parsimonious explanation. IMO...

[fracturedstory]

Sounds far more interesting than my intrusive thoughts.

I kind of think this stuff in my head all the time. Darn, I thought it was my unique way to tell stories.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Assumption

You have to look at this in a Bayesian manner. If his diagnosis is OCD (which involves intrusive thoughts), he hasn't suffered from delusions in the past, and this one was very short (as in, it was dismissed pretty much as soon as it was entertained) then inferring that he actually had a delusion may be leaping to conclusions. It's a possibility, but it's not the most parsimonious explanation. IMO...

Haha, I like your use of parsimonious, big words are fun:P

Anyway, I don't have OCD and haven't read much about it so I'm not sure, but, aren't intrusive thoughts usually within the scope of reality?

[Fuzzy12]

I've really got no idea but if this is the only time that it happened, try not to worry too much about it. I think, short delusions might be surprisingly common. I mean you know waking up and not knowing where you are or believing that your dream is still real.

I once heard a voice in my head say something like "That will be our little secret" with a really nasty, creepy tone. It didn't seem like a thought and it didn't sound like my own voice. It absolutely freaked me out and I had my first full blown panic attack. So I understand how scary it is. However, it's never happened again. Thankfully. It isn't fun.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy12

I've really got no idea but if this is the only time that it happened, try not to worry too much about it. I think, short delusions might be surprisingly common. I mean you know waking up and not knowing where you are or believing that your dream is still real.

I once heard a voice in my head say something like "That will be our little secret" with a really nasty, creepy tone. It didn't seem like a thought and it didn't sound like my own voice. It absolutely freaked me out and I had my first full blown panic attack. So I understand how scary it is. However, it's never happened again. Thankfully. It isn't fun.

HEY! That was supposed to be you and your voice's little secret. He's not going to be happy to hear that you posted his secret online

[Fuzzy12]

Originally Posted by Geno

HEY! That was supposed to be you and your voice's little secret. He's not going to be happy to hear that you posted his secret online

Don't freak me out. I got so **** scared that day that the first thing I did when my husband came home was to tell him about the secret that the voice wanted me to keep quiet. I never considered the possibility that it might want to take revenge.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy12

Don't freak me out. I got so **** scared that day that the first thing I did when my husband came home was to tell him about the secret that the voice wanted me to keep quiet. I never considered the possibility that it might want to take revenge.

Yeah haha, I'd be freaked out big time if I heard a voice or had a delusion when I wasn't already doing something known to cause temporary psychosis. With mine, they were "hahaha oh, silly me, t'was just the lack of sleep and excess of drugs. *goes on merry way*"

[ADHDTigger]

ADHDers are big on rumination. Rumination can be expansive. Add that dose of fear and your brain can take you places you never wanted to go.

Tongue thrust issues actually provide a starting ground. "Arresting" techniques (actually helpful) are a fertile feeding ground for very real seeming- but not necessarily delusional- thinking. You are arresting movement- you feel confined- "arrested"- you attach known symbology to the sense of "arrest"... rumination kicks you in the backside.

You really are quite okay.

[meadd823]

It may be worth mentioning to your doc just to be on the safe side - New occurrences are always worth mentioning.

I have repetitive negative thoughts when anxious - My brain typically focuses on some thing I do not actually know and is partially grounded in reality - Like the day I will die or what happened to a missing pet . . . Arrested tongue, stop or else. Gangsters group teeth not tooth = group of bad teeth.

I may be equally as strange but I can actually see a realistic aspect of the thought -

Back on topic, the only way I know that my intrusive thoughts are caused by anxiety is because I spoke to my doctor about it.

I can connect things like your description to a realistic idea of bad teeth if you don;t stop your tongue movements because I lack boundary isolation - I talk to my doc about a lot of stuff!

[Fuzzy12]

Originally Posted by Geno

Yeah haha, I'd be freaked out big time if I heard a voice or had a delusion when I wasn't already doing something known to cause temporary psychosis. With mine, they were "hahaha oh, silly me, t'was just the lack of sleep and excess of drugs. *goes on merry way*"

That's very true. If you know what's going on it makes a huge a difference. That fear of going insane is a bad one and I really feel for the OP on this one.

I was going through a pretty bad patch when I heard that voice. I'd see scary faces in the dark or glaring eyes. I couldn't bear to be alone at home (or anywhere else) after dark. Couldn't even take a shower when I was alone at home. I was convinced I was losing my mind.

Maybe that's why it was such a relief when I started reading up on ADHD and suddenly a lot of things started making sense to me. I still struggle but at least now I know that there might be a reason, a biological reason.

[Assumption]

Fuzzy, I think what you were talking about was auditory hallucinations. Which are very common when falling asleep - otherwise, less common. Hallucinations can be caused by many different things. I think generally they're a form of misinterpretation. Some people with schizophrenia have been shown to have less activation in a particular circuit in the brain (I forget what it's called) which registers actions as originating from the self. This is (perhaps part of) the reason why schizophrenia is associated with auditory hallucinations (you think a sentence, but it feels like it has come from somewhere else - someone else's thought has been inserted in your head).

What the OP was talking about might be a delusion, or it might be an intrusive thought.

The kinds of thoughts that become obsessions in OCD actually happen to everyone. The thing about OCD that makes them different is that people suffering from OCD exaggerate the aberrant thought's significance. While most people might shrug off a passing thought about killing their boss (most people will report having fantasized about killing somebody that has wronged them if asked in an anonymous survey - these kinds of thoughts are actually the NORM), somebody with OCD may interpret this as being very troubling, and it will make them anxious (remember, OCD is first and foremost an anxiety disorder). DON'T THINK OF A PINK ELEPHANT. I bet you did This phenomenon is what gives (the obsessive part of) OCD its bite. The anxiety turns a passing aberrant thought into an obsession.

Delusions, on the other hand, are defined (if memory serves) as beliefs about the world that differ markedly from reality, persist in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, and which are not socially sanctioned. Personally I think the "socially sanctioned" clause is stupid, but hey. I didn't write the DSM IV. :P Delusions are also a common symptom of schizophrenia.