In the end of the day, what do you hang onto?

[Fortress]

Feeling so bad. I've managed to drag myself to the gym once over this whole 4 days weekend I had, and done nothing else productive. Now my boyfriend is having a supper with friends I don't know that much, but are pretty cool, but I can't drag myself there because I have to take subway + bus and I know I won't have much to say. I'm just not stimulated enough by the prospect of the encounter to get my *** off my seat.

I'm just respecting what I want (or rather, what I don't want) now, instead of forcing myself to go see people I have nothing to say to, and whose jokes I can't laugh at. But instead of feeling anxious about not having had a social encounter to my standards, I just avoid them and feel anxious because I'm not doing anything with myself.

I don't WANT to do things because they're all boring, but staying inside playing videogames makes me depressed after a while because I know I'm not accomplishing anything. Nothing stimulates me enough to interest me, but I somehow would like to do a lot of things nevertheless. What a crappy , downards spiral mental disorder. Not to mention nobody around me understands it.

Anyway, before this looks like a blog post...I just needed to vent, but the topic title's question still stands. I find the line between ADD (SCT?) and depression very very small at times, if only because of the partial anhedonia - inability to have fun.

Do you find anything to hang onto that makes you think, "Yeah today/life is worth it" from time to time?? Hell if nothing else, just complain along with me, at least I won't feel so alone in my world.

[avjgirsijdhtjhs]

Stimulants and Bupropion would probably help with this. SSRIs would probably make it worse.

What meds are you on?

Check out this stuff from here:

Helen Phillips
The pleasure seekers
New Scientist, 11 October 2003
"At first glance, the "reward centre" idea seems hard to fault. The self-stimulation experiments, beginning with rats in the 1950s and followed by the human experiments in the 1960s, seemed perfectly clear. Modern brain-imaging studies have confirmed that the centre works overtime whenever you're enjoying something, whether it's sex or chocolate, drugs or music. And chemical analysis shows that, whatever your pleasure, dopamine fuels the circuit. "Dopamine was the pleasure transmitter," says Berridge. "The evidence seemed so strong. If you shut down dopamine signalling by giving a drug that blocks dopamine receptors, you dilute the reward value of everything." So why did he and others begin to question the status quo?
Berridge reckons that his doubts began to creep in around the late 1980s, with a few surprise results. He'd found that he could watch rats' facial expressions to judge their reactions to certain tastes. Believe it or not, rats actually look pleased when given sweet things to taste, and produce the rat equivalent of a disgusted look in response to bitterness. The assumption was that these expressions were of pleasure or displeasure, mediated by the reward centre. The surprise came when Berridge blocked the dopamine signal with drugs. In theory, with dopamine knocked out there was now no way for the rats to sense the reward value of the sweetness, so he was expecting not to see any "pleased" expressions. But the rats seemed just as expressive as ever.
Putting it down to experimental error, Berridge tried a more foolproof test. He used rats in which dopamine-producing cells had been wiped out with a neurotoxin. It was already known that these animals simply stopped eating. "They would voluntarily starve to death if the experimenter didn't intervene and feed them," says Berridge. Researchers had always thought that the rats' lack of dopamine meant they didn't like food. But when Berridge force-fed them with sweet and bitter liquids, their facial reactions were normal. "They still showed the proper positive face to sugar and the proper negative face to quinine," he says. "It looked like their reaction to pleasure was normal even though their dopamine was gone."
What was going on? The experiments prompted Berridge to look back at Heath's brain electrode results. He was struck this time by what feelings the subjects reported. They all said they felt good, and always pleaded for more when the controls were taken away. But was it pleasure? The reports mentioned feelings of alertness, warmth and goodwill, arousal, a desire to masturbate, or to drink even though they weren't thirsty. It sounded more like desire than pleasure. This fitted perfectly with Berridge's rats. Even with no activity in the reward area, they seemed to "like" the taste of sweet food. They just didn't "want" it. Could the dopamine system be a desire circuit that mediates our feelings of wanting something, rather than a pleasure centre that supplies our feelings of liking?
Although it was Berridge who drew attention to the distinction between wanting and liking, he is by no means the only researcher to realise that "pleasure" is not quite the right term to attach to activity in the dopamine system. If people are given drugs that block or stimulate dopamine release, it doesn't alter how much they report liking certain tastes. What that suggests is that the dopamine system itself doesn't produce feelings of pleasure, says Panksepp. "The dopamine system is about motivation and seeking. It gives a generalised desire or urge, an eagerness to engage with the world."

[Slo-mo a-go-go]

i hang onto the novelty and the stimulation it gives me. novelty is the one ever-blooming, ever-fruiting branch adhd-i gives me and i have a white-knuckle grasp on it!!

i agree and empathize alot w/ what you wrote, also experience severe adhd-i and depression. congrats on getting to the gym. somedays that is enough to call the day a success, i do at least.

i agree w/ asdjdfkhgjhdfgdfghdfgjhfjgh. stims help. bupropion helped me so much but it gave me seizures. now i take sertaline (zoloft)

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by avjgirsijdhtjhs

It sounded more like desire than pleasure. This fitted perfectly with Berridge's rats. Even with no activity in the reward area, they seemed to "like" the taste of sweet food. They just didn't "want" it. Could the dopamine system be a desire circuit that mediates our feelings of wanting something, rather than a pleasure centre that supplies our feelings of liking?

This kinda makes sense to me. I think...

I have ritalin only right now, because my doctor sucks, and I need to take another evaluation (6 months delay) before he'll give me anything else. The ritalin has a very small effect, I feel all it does it make me excited a bit more when I come to think about a few things, but my mind is still foggy as all hell. Plus after the 4 hours of effect, I feel angry, depressed and tired.

[avjgirsijdhtjhs]

Originally Posted by Fortress

This kinda makes sense to me. I think...

I have ritalin only right now, because my doctor sucks, and I need to take another evaluation (6 months delay) before he'll give me anything else. The ritalin has a very small effect, I feel all it does it make me excited a bit more when I come to think about a few things, but my mind is still foggy as all hell. Plus after the 4 hours of effect, I feel angry, depressed and tired.

Wellbutrin XL (XL being the longest of the three release variants) first thing in the morning has the potential to be seriously life changing. It gives a nice warm, positive, non-forceful push\drive\desire to do things without making you feel amped up or jittery (very smooth), and without doing much at all as far as increasing alertness is concerned. To put it shorter, I'd say that what it does is give a nice positive push. Well that's my experience at least. It's a great drug.

[425runner]

Very true about the Wellbutrin! I take 150mg of XL in the afternoon because it makes me very excited/wanna go out/socialize and restless. Not very conducive to studying but when you need to get things done it works great!

[Rebelyell]

I cant really tell ya what I hang onto I might get banned ,snickers loudly
I have my meds that help me tremendously are else I'd be bad ,angry and maniacal w out meds Im always cussing ,breaking ,slamming and kicking stuff,I guess I havent grown out of being a kid,use to kick the walls when I got sent to my room and mom would go into a tizzy w me for doing so. I got my job,my bike my car,my side business to see success its all there all i have to do is go out to the garage

[Fuzzy12]

I'm sorry you are feeling down. I can so relate to your post. I swing constantly between seeking stimulation at any cost and being too depressed to do anything at all. Anyway to answer your question: i only feel alive and that life is worth living when I'm sufficiently stimulated. And i hang on in the hope that things might be better in the future. I mean, it's possible. You never know right? But more than anything it's probably the thought that being alive still sounds a whole lot more exciting than being dead.

[MX2012]

Fortress -- are there any activities that give you joy or make you feel alive? I am a fairly simple person -- I love to read and take walks.

I have battled depression in the past often sleeping for hours. In the past I was shy, I eventually developed a "social" personality and learned to make small talk.

I did take St. John's Wort for about 18 months if I remember correctly. It helped but eventually was not as effective and I felt I was developing side effects, so I stopped.

I guess my point is -- find some interest you have and focus on it.

Track your depressions. Do they follow a pattern? If so, then prepare for them.

[SquarePeg]

Hi, you´re name was the first thing to strike me. I went to a "psychic" a few years back and the first thing she said was "why have you locked yourself in a fortress".

I had stopped socialising, I had nothing to say to people and wasn´t interested enough to listen to them either. I was sooo bored with everything. couldn´t decide if it was boredom or apathy or what. Just in such a deep rut, no motivation whatsoever.

Funny how I had nothing to say to other people but had more than enough to say to myself in my head, I always have done.



I felt that one phase of my life was over and I waiting for another different phase of my life to begin, I was sure it was going to happen. But until it did I was a bit of a hermit.

When I mentioned the fortress comment to a friend she said "ha ha she´s right and you never let the drawbridge down".



Anyway this lovely friend kept forcing me to go out and socialise and meet new people, along with my kids who wanted him out of the house so they could get up to "no good" in the evenings.

I forced myself to go out and talk to people and I´m glad I did, I have a new career which is challenging and has required a lot of studying, but because I am motivated it wasn´t too bad.

Don´t get me wrong I´m not and never will be the life and soul of the party although I have my moments.

So maybe force yourself to do some things you don´t particularly feel like doing, you might be pleasantly surprised.

At the moment I feel so overwhelmed I can´t get anything done, but at least I´m not bored!!

[SquarePeg]

in case I didn´t make my post clear because I am a rambler and always confused.

what made me hang on is that I was 100% sure that a new different phase of my life ws going to begin.

[Unmanagable]

I try to hang on to the hope that even if I wasn't able to make a positive difference in someone's life today, I'll be given another chance tomorrow.

I try not to let myself hope too far beyond that point as of late.

[fracturedstory]

Erm, I feel like just replying to the subject heading. Don't worry, I read the whole post.

I was feeling really depressed before from my hormonal depression. And my friend was going through depression too. She has bipolar. And we were not being supportive of another. I still don't think we are. We've got our issues...many issues.

Anyway, I find mental stimulation helps me. I read or play video games. For some reason they are so distracting from my thoughts that I don't feel depressed. I don't like going out anyway. I've got my cat to cuddle up to. And I have a super supportive family who were star nice to me so I didn't kill myself.

I'm a person who needs goals to even bother with life, creative ones at that. If I don't create I feel low. I just exist. Sure I'm capable of existing but I need more out of life. My main goal is to become a published author so I try to push through the depression and the horrible horrible meltdowns until I'm able to write again.

[Fortress]

A lot of you mention doing activities that are stimulating, but that's the thing - I don't have much of those. It's mostly sports with drum n bass at top volume in earbuds (and sports are now limitated a lot to me because of knee injuries), or videogames, which I am slowly losing interest in. I do like relatively generic intense fun stuff, like trying a new restaurant (expensive), appreciating nature/views of the city and the like (takes a lot of motivation just to get there though) and sometimes parties (once very drunk usually)...well there I listed the reason I don't do those very often.

Indeed my username is relevant: I too, AM a figurative Fortress, I haven't cared about much for a while now, can barely open up to people closest to me and break down every other month while very wasted on alcohol or drugs. I have learned to make small talk also, I'm now a master in that field as long as I can find the 10% stimulation I need to keep up the 90% fake of it, it's very tiring and unsatisfying in the end...

I did try Wellbutrin nearly a year ago. Altough my roommates told me I changed a bit personally I haven't noticed changing much; I had fun trying a few different meals for supper but I think the motivation came from elsewhere - I was newly unemployed and had nothing to do. It's more like the stress from the ******* 40h/week was coming down finally. So I'm not much willing to try Wellbutrin again. At this point I think only amphetamines would help, but I can't try since as I said, my doctor sucks.

To answer this particular bit:

Originally Posted by LindaGreen

So maybe force yourself to do some things you don´t particularly feel like doing, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I used to force myself all the time, particularly before my diagnosis because I refused to have such a boring life. The thing is, sometimes I DID have more fun than I expected, but often... see, if I'm not really in the mood, I know in advance that it is useless. Maybe some of you will be familiar with this feeling of going to a party or friends meet-up and ending up not saying much, not enjoying at all and just wanting to get the **** out of there and back home, with a great pack of feeling-down, to-go. It's happening way too much lately for me to bother again, probably related to the fortress thing but that's not changing any day now.

Originally Posted by fracturedstory

If I don't create I feel low.

Yeah I think I know what you mean. The most stimulating things to me are those that make ME go forward, be or do something special. The thing is though, the unique things one will like to do, are specific to each person; just like you like writing (and probably have for a long while now), what I like to do that is special is running (which I can't anymore, knees) and some extreme sports, but I can't afford a dirtbike right now.

So there...I always try to get out of the fog as much as possible, drag myself to the gym, see at least 1 person I care about during my weekends, but at the end of the day I always feel empty and meaningless Even if I did something fun, it's like it doesn't really mean anything in the end, and if I try to think about it, it just kills any very abstract hope I had for the next days (ex: I like to see my friends, but I just did and it really wasn't that fun) And I am going to start my courses soon, it does give a great feeling of "things are finally going somewhere" but that feeling, like every other, is extremely fleeting and I'm afraid there are going to be tough moments where I don't really remember that and it just feels like a huge burden that I don't want to confront.

I'm afraid this is too great a mental handicap to overcome. It's really too bad, since I had a lot of expectations for my life...All I can do is forget the pain and failure, get lost in the brainfog, and try again later...

[pooka]

I'm not sure if I've ever been seriously depressed, but I do have a lot of emotional ups and downs and the downs pretty much just suck.

What gets me through rough periods? Writing - "cleansing" would be the best word to describe that. Getting the sad and mad and negative out of you and onto paper. It helps me.

And listening to happy songs. And talking to people who have the same sense of humor I do. Eating junk food and going outside. Petting my cat. The little things. Too much stimulation (parties and video games and that sort of thing) often makes me feel even more drained. And even though the small things probably won't be enough to get you out of depression, it's still a reminder that there are good things in life.

What I hang on to is the knowledge that the sadness will be over, if not today then tomorrow, if not tomorrow then the next day. Eventually, it will be over.

If I have a day that I'm completely unmotivated and do nothing, sometimes I just try to reassure myself by saying that I needed the down time in order to be more mentally healthy and motivated and stuff in the future.