Does ADHD make being a beautiful woman more of a problem?

[Zoom Dude]

Disclaimer:
I am neither a woman, nor particularly attractive. But another thread in the General forum got me thinking about something that I notice every now and then.

There is a stereotype that beautiful women (BW) have it easy. Like all stereotypes there is a grain of truth in this, at least superficially. (For the purpose of this discussion, BW is a very general term. The only difference between a "smokin' hot babe" and a "woman of luminous beauty" is a matter of style and the demographic you attract.)

Being a BW certainly opens doors that might not open otherwise - and some where you'd rather not go. But if you have a brain and choose to use it you must be very careful. I think it's no accident that beautiful celebrities go to extreme lengths to appear gracious and kind. Heaven forbid you should call someone on their lame idea. That will immediately get you labelled an opinionated "witch" (or worse, in a gender-politics sort of way). It's like you've broken some unspoken code, that you've been given this special gift and your sole duty is to project your radiance, not sow discord and strife. What an enormous pain in the patootie that must be.

So what happens when you add ADHD to being a BW? You attract attention whether you want it or not. If you're inattentive you simply can't fly under the radar as so many inattentives (like me) prefer. If you're hyperactive/impulsive and average-looking, you're likely to be seen as quirky or outspoken. But if you're a BW that's more likely to turn into crazy "witch" or self-centered "witch".

Am I on track here? I know that in the real world a BW can never admit she believes she's a BW. (It's a violation of the unspoken code.) C'mon, you know who you are, and these forums are anonymous. People with ADHD need to be who they are, at least sometimes, because it's exhausting to live in an NT world. Is that harder if you're a BW?

ZD

[Jynical]

I... I just can't even begin to explain what's wrong with your post. lol

Whose standard of "beautiful"? And are you implying that people who don't fit into whatever boundaries that standard has created have no problems with having ADHD because they're not attractive, so who cares about their needs...right?

Why would it even matter what someone looks like how their diagnosis affects them or how the world treats them?

Would you ask a person of color of their ADHD affects them differently?

I'm certain you didn't mean any offense... but geez.

ETA: And what "code" is this that you speak of? Someone who is aesthetically pleasing can't "admit" to being aesthetically pleasing? What is it that they must admit to?

[crystal8080]

Wow I don't know where to start on this one.

First, I think the best insight you will ever find on what its like for a beautiful woman is from Cybil Shepard. In an interview with Oprah, she gave a very candid description of life after beauty fades. It was a great interview. But very few woman can say they are beautiful next to a woman like her. So I'm not sure what your definition of beauty is.

here is a link to the interview..watch it then tell me what you think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0IubIKJgag

[Zoom Dude]

Originally Posted by Jynical

I... I just can't even begin to explain what's wrong with your post. lol

Oh good. I came here to learn, and perhaps I've stumbled on an opportunity.

Whose standard of "beautiful"? And are you implying that people who don't fit into whatever boundaries that standard has created have no problems with having ADHD because they're not attractive, so who cares about their needs...right?

Ummm, no. Like it or not, society decides who is beautiful. There are no standards, we all know it when we see it. And we respond accordingly. Why would you assume I'm discounting anyone's needs? I think you'll find I've been very supportive of anyone with ADHD. In this thread I'm looking at the needs of a particular group. Your response confirms that this is a loaded subject, which if valid, means someone might not be getting their needs discussed.

Why would it even matter what someone looks like how their diagnosis affects them or how the world treats them?

Would you ask a person of color of their ADHD affects them differently?

Actually, that might be an interesting question. I haven't considered an ethnic slant to ADHD before, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. ADHD affects us all profoundly, in great measure because of the ways the NT world treats us. Different groups in society get treated differently. How does ADHD interplay with that?

Example: let's say we were discussing a disorder (not ADHD) where one of the common symptoms was trust issues. The wealthy are widely seen as having an easy life, but many wealthy people have severe trust issues because many people would love a cut of their wealth. Would it be discriminatory to ask how that disorder is exacerbated by being wealthy?

I'm certain you didn't mean any offense... but geez.

No I certainly didn't, but I'm learning that I must be very guarded about discussing what I observe. C'mon - I see this (BW) behavior everywhere. In the workplace, in social contexts, everywhere. Like or not, BW get a different response than regular-looking people, and you can easily see how it helps or hinders interactions between people. In some cases it can shut down interaction entirely. Some people won't even approach a BW. Having ADHD can make one feel very isolated. Does that become worse if you're a BW?

I honestly don't know if this is pushing a button for some because they are sensitive to gender politics issues, or if women and men generally see this differently.

ETA: And what "code" is this that you speak of? Someone who is aesthetically pleasing can't "admit" to being aesthetically pleasing? What is it that they must admit to?

Uh, that was an attempt at a joke, apparently poorly executed. Do you not see that a BW who speaks openly about her beauty is easily seen as being self-absorbed? That's why you almost never see it mentioned by celebrities. I once knew a BW who tried to downplay it. She made a comment like "look around - everyone is normal-looking!" trying to discount her looks. But because she's undeniably a BW anyone else would have seen that as pretty narcissistic, which she's not - just conflicted.

FWIW, I'm generally seen as a caring and sensitive person, far more open to a woman's point of view than many. I'm a little taken aback at the apparent assumption that I'm some clueless misogynistic clod.

ZD

[Spacemaster]

I remember having once read an article about a "BW" who did a bit of an experiment. (sorry, old magazine I read years ago, can't cite)

This woman went about her day as her pretty self, dressed up nice, the whole bit. She'd do things like, drop her paperwork on the ground, ask for directions, etc. Men and women alike were very helpful and kind.

The same woman went out a different day, dressed frumpy, very plain-jane. She was almost universally ignored, and far fewer people helped her out.

I don't remember the whole article, but the results were blatantly obvious. Beautiful people, whatever gender, are treated differently. I'm not saying that everyone does this, but it's reality.

[Jynical]

I apologize... my post was a knee-jerk reaction.

It is a loaded topic. For certain...because it involves a game that women just can't win. If we're conventionally attractive, we're bad. If we're not conventionally attractive, we're bad. We live in a society that puts a high price on what is beautiful and what isn't, and women are, more often than not, the measuring sticks to that price.

The question alone of whether or not ADHD makes it hard to be beautiful... it's a triggering question. Since aesthetics are completely subjective, the generalization of "society" is a fallacy.

As a woman who is seen as average by some and beautiful by others... it is hurtful to generalize. Regardless of whether a person is NT or not... it is hurtful to lump people into a category as an "other". Whether or not our society does it every day. Whether or not our media holds up looks as the.most.important. thing ever in the history of civilization.

ADHD is hard on everyone. Is it harder for a person-of-color to be dx'd with ADHD? Is it harder for an adult? And you make a good point... are the wealthy or the poor adversely affected if dx'd?

Again, I apologize for my brashness...

[Jynical]

Still thinking on this...

Being attractive is a privileged position. Having a privileged position cushions other areas that don't have them but it doesn't make those areas harder.

Attractive women aren't labeled a b**ch because being attractive makes life hard. They get labeled a b**ch because being a woman makes life hard. Conventionally unattractive women are labeled b**ches as well, if only for committing the sin of being insufficiently attractive, or f**kable.

Women in the public eye don't accrue the labels and sh*t because they're in the public eye, they accrue it for being women... it's generally only noticeable when it happens to beautiful women.

I dunno... I see the scales of our society and the binary gender system we have assumed exists in our society as being completely unbalanced. What do we do to fix that?

[Zoom Dude]

Originally Posted by Jynical

As a woman who is seen as average by some and beautiful by others... it is hurtful to generalize. Regardless of whether a person is NT or not... it is hurtful to lump people into a category as an "other". Whether or not our society does it every day. Whether or not our media holds up looks as the.most.important. thing ever in the history of civilization.

You're right - thanks to the media's support of companies that create and play on our need to be Beautiful People, life is harder for those of us who are not. However, I admittedly neglected to consider how much harder it is for women than men. For that, I apologize.

Chris

[Jynical]

Originally Posted by Zoom Dude

You're right - thanks to the media's support of companies that create and play on our need to be Beautiful People, life is harder for those of us who are not. However, I admittedly neglected to consider how much harder it is for women than men. For that, I apologize.

Chris

It is ok...honestly.

It's a slippery slope when we get into privilege... it's triggering for some, and many people don't believe it exists.

Sociology and culture... even cultural anthropology... are fascinating to me. What we believe as a society, and we behave within that structure... it's wild how much of an illusion it is.

I'm a person who would rather rebel... I prefer to reject society's "rule" of what is "normal"...be it gender, belief systems, size, race... whatever. I would rather incite revolution.

Hmm... I may be a sociopath.

At any rate... as the mother of a young daughter... how women view themselves, and how others view women (of any aesthetic) is an important, if not touchy, topic.

I'm going to profusely apologize again for biting your head off earlier. Sometimes my mouth (fingers?) engage before my brain does.

[Zevispaz]

I know what you're trying to ask. Whether we like it or not our looks, skin color, and size all change how people treat and perceive us. I have a dark husband and I can see how people in general treat him different than my white friends. My black friend intimidates people just by walking normally, and he's a pretty nice guy. I'm sure adding ADHD plays an interesting role in how people perceive others, especially when it comes to gender and race. It's an interesting sociology study for sure!

I'm not going to get into my looks, anyone can be pretty with the right cosmetics and outfits, I can make myself look pretty fantastic when the occasion calls for it. So having ADHD I'll just compare how I'm treated by strangers with make up and without, and how I was treated while I was chubby for a bit. It's a pretty striking difference.

I'm always polite regardless of how I look, so no one has ever been openly hostile against me.

Chubby Me
From women:
They were friendly, they would approach me and call me hun/sweety/love. I could talk to their boyfriends everything was just fine.

From men:
They were polite, I'd have a few guys hit on me once in a while. But for the most part they'd friend zone me straight away.

Treated during ADHD moments:
Most people couldn't tell when I zoned. If I wandered off, no big deal. If I was fidgety, people acted like something was wrong with me. Saying what I wanted and being goofy was ok for the most part.

No make-up thin me
Women:
Still polite and nice to me, but not nearly as friendly to me as when I was chubby. Talking to their boyfriends is ok, so long as they are right there, they will not wander off.

Men:
Pretty flirty, smile come up say hi. Ask if I need help. Insist on striking up conversation. If it's a sales person in a store and they have a name tag, I say their name and they act casual. They laugh at lame jokes, which they did not do whilst I was chubby.

Treated during ADHD moments:
Fidgeting as a thinner person for some reason is more socially acceptable. Apparently being thin gives you the right to have more energy. I think it's because as a society people see fit people as active people, so having more energy is normal (I'm just BSing here). Saying what may fly out of my mouth is either considered obnoxious or awesome, but not really anywhere in between.

Make up pretty me
Like I said, I don't think I'm drop dead gorgeous. But when I look good, I KNOW I look good and act confident sexy because of it.

Women:
I get a lot of stares. Not hostile stares, but they like to stare. They're still polite, but they're not particularly friendly. Some women act insecure and look down. It's kind of weird. It's almost like I intimidate them. I don't really bother talking to their boyfriends because they are suddenly VERY interested in them and they'll give a bit of a masked hostile glance if I do.

Men:
Two scenarios. They either won't talk to me at all. If I approach them they get nervous or tongue tied, act like I've just thrown part of their day out of whack. The other scenario is they'll try to "show off", they'll be extra helpful, extra knowledgeable about a product. My jokes are hysterical now.

Treated during ADHD moments:
For some reason, both genders find this cute and endearing. I think I put the girls at ease by showing I'm not in fact perfect, and guys at this point don't care about my personality anyway. Being goofy and silly is much more acceptable. I am caught zoning out more though, that's for sure, and there's times people care and act sort of deflated when I do it. This is the only time they take it as a personal blow, instead of dismissing it as me and not them.


Anyway, this may or may not be accurate. I act different with make up and without. I'm much more confident with it on, so that also probably skews how people treat me.

[Beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Spacemaster

I remember having once read an article about a "BW" who did a bit of an experiment. (sorry, old magazine I read years ago, can't cite)...

I read the same article (I can't cite it either, lol) and tried the same experiment. According to me, I'm a ghoul without makeup. I have broken capillaries from rosacea and I'm so fair that my eyebrows and eyelashes might as well not exist. In full makeup and dressed nice, DH and friends tell me I'm a knockout. So I have a pretty wide range here....

Dressed and made up, women wouldn't speak to me and men fell over themselves. Frumpy and no makeup, guys don't give me a second look and women are nice.

But it's also about who you're with....

Like Zevispaz, "pretty me" can't fly under the radar when she can't pay attention. I've been referred to as a "trophy wife" because my zoned out state came across as aloofness. I am not, at all! (I'm sure as s*** not NT enough to qualify for that position, lol....let alone the fact that I'll come home with a swollen face from bee stings and not give a crap.)

But some conversations I can't follow, so I retreat into my head, and I could see how people could consider me aloof.

I didn't bother with "pretty me" until a few years ago. I didn't think I could live up to it. Now I just don't care. So I can't really say that ADHD BWs have it differently or not. But I think Zevispaz made some really good points with her comparisons.

Now, all that goes out the window to the people who know me well... They know I can doll up as needed but I am still basically the same goofy girl they're used to. So I think it depends on a lot of factors.

But I think the attention that comes with being attractive may also possibly highlight other flaws?

I just realized I went on a tangent that I can barely follow. I'm going to stop now...

[danelady]

Recently,my uncle sent this photo to me from when I was 18 or 19. That's my grandmother( you can see who I got the big hair from). So many people told me I was pretty,blah blah blah! Everyone fawned over me,men wanted to do things with me,for me, TO ME! lol!

People wanted to talk to me all the time,ask me all sorts of questions,like for instance what I liked to do or how I felt about certain things.

I HATED IT WITH A PASSION! I was confused by the attention and wanted to run away. And I did! But people thought I was being stuck up all the time.

I do not recognize the person I see in this photo, I remember how ugly I felt at that time,ugly and unlovable. More than anything I remember how much I wanted to find out why I felt so horrible all time.

I remember that I was easily led,people could tell me anything I would believe them,which made me an easy target. I'm sure people thought I was stupid,but believe me,my mind was racing all the time trying to figure out what was expected of me or if what I was doing was right.

If there is a problem with beauty and adhd,I think the problem lies more in the people who are only looking at the exterior and expect a 'beautiful' person to act a certain way.

I think these days people are too concerned with exterior beauty,with having the right nose,the right hair,the RIGHT WEIGHT.

I can tell you with complete honesty...I am glad I am now old and fat and gray,now when someone bothers to talk to me its cause they are interested in what I am saying,not what we might do later.




https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...87385069_n.jpg

[Unmanagable]

Word!!!!

[ginniebean]

I don't think the OP was asking if it is hard to be beautiful and have ADHD but does ADHD mess with the perks that usually go with being beautirful.

Well, the clear answer to that is most likely yes. The low self esteem, the inability to get ahead, affect what kind off job you can get, and what kind of partner you will be with. Looks might bring people to your door but, can you make them stay?

[danelady]

That's exactly the message I wanted to get across,which you so eloquently did!

Originally Posted by ginniebean

I don't think the OP was asking if it is hard to be beautiful and have ADHD but does ADHD mess with the perks that usually go with being beautirful.

Well, the clear answer to that is most likely yes. The low self esteem, the inability to get ahead, affect what kind off job you can get, and what kind of partner you will be with. Looks might bring people to your door but, can you make them stay?