Medication causing manic symptoms, I really don't think I'm BP.

[ana futura]

Every stimulant I have tried seems to be causing mania, even at super low doses.

Sometimes it's when the med has worn off, sometimes it's when it's active. At first I was just getting a hyper rebound, but now it seems to go far beyond that.

I was on dexedrine for a while, but I switched to mph recently. On dex ,my internal narrator gets horribly loud, so loud that I feel like I'm going crazy. I've never had issues with this before starting meds. I've also experienced "flight of ideas" that seems beyond my usual creative thinking. It's like my brain just keeps thinking things and I can't keep up. Things seem more profound than they normally would. I couldn't sleep one night and got out of bed to write ideas down.

MPH was better initially, but now it seems to be doing the same things dexedrine did, just not as pronounced. It usually makes me very calm and lethargic while it's active, but my thoughts are unbearable once it wears off.

I've been off of meds for almost a week now, and while my thoughts have quieted, I've had a few very negative emotional outbursts. I haven't had outbursts like these in a very long time. I feel like my mood is fine, and then something triggers me and I'm nuts. I seem to gradually be getting better, I'm much better today than I was yesterday.


I really don't think I'm bipolar, and I don't want to take a mood stabilizer or any additional meds.

Has anyone else experienced this who's not bipolar? How do you manage?

[crystal8080]

Ana, you may not have any of the "big bipolars" (I, II Cyclothymia or NOS), but you may fall on the spectrum somewhere. We are not all cookie cutters of the DSM.

I hope you find the answers and get well.

[ana futura]

Thanks Crystal, I'm beginning to realize that may be the case. I've done more reading about bp2, and there are things that fit. My need for sleep fluctuates, usually between 7 and 11 hours a night.

I've never thought of myself as depressed, but I have had periods where I felt really lethargic, and not know why. I've also gone through weird periods where I'm really interested in religion all of a sudden, even though I'm agnostic.

[Fuzzy12]

i was wondering about the same thing a few days ago with regard to anti depressants. That is i've been thinking that the meds are causing my extreme one swings but I've always been very moody. When i read up on the different versions of bi polar i was quite surprised to see how well some of them fit me. If you do get diagnosed with it though would you be happy to take mood stabilisers?

[crystal8080]

Well so you know, I thought that mood stabilisers would be terrible evil little pills, I would have bad side effects etc. I guess maybe I'm lucky, but I'm not having any problems. I had some scalp itchiness when I moved up to 500mg, I used some T-Gel, and it went away. Maybe I just lucked out finding a medication that worked first try. After trying all the antidepressants....it was a nice change having something that worked so easy.

[ana futura]

Crystal, were you diagnosed with Cyclothymia or ADHD first? I never would have suspected I had anything like BP until I started taking stimulants.

It's weird, while I've never really "felt" depressed, once I started stimulants I came to this realization that I had in fact been depressed (or at least lethargic) for some time.

I feel different right now than I've felt in the past few months, like I feel less tired and more "in control".

I suppose using stimulants booted me out of depression into a hypo-manic state, but now that I've stopped using them maybe I'm "normal" again.

My productivity has really fluctuated over the years. I'm going to talk to my neurologist about this, but his main focus is pediatric ADHD, I'm not sure what he'll say.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy12

If you do get diagnosed with it though would you be happy to take mood stabilisers?

Probably not at this point in time. I'm not a big fan of meds period, and I can function to a degree without stimulants. Judging by my reaction, I clearly should not be on stims without a mood stabilizer. At the moment I'd rather just take nothing, although I am curious as to how I'd react.

I'm more comfortable with the thought of taking a mood stabilizer than an SSRI, though. It's probably because I have so much trouble thinking of myself as depressed. I can admit that I'm volatile, but I've never thought of myself as sad. I have a real dislike of "pouty" people, which is what I've always considered moody. Sad people tend to frustrate and annoy me. I have trouble thinking of my rages as "moody", but I suppose they are. I do know that my rages are troubling to others, but they've never really bothered me.


I think right now I'll just try to stay vigilant and start looking for shifts. Now that I know what my depression looks like, hopefully I'll be better at spotting it.

[crystal8080]

Holy I started writing a big long story but I deleted it

-I was diagnosed by my GP with ADHD after many trials with antidepressants (he was trying to treat my memory, attention, outbursts and panic attacks) he did try me on Ritalin when I was on ADs. This last time around he tried me on Dex, didn't give me ADs and gave me a referral to a specialist. The Dex helped me tremendously, but I was still cycling.

-When I was finally sent to my psychiatrist he diagnosed me with Cyclothymia and reserved the ADHD until I was stable. Once that happened, I was also dx'd ADHD.

I feel different right now than I've felt in the past few months, like I feel less tired and more "in control".

IMO, if you are just ADHD and off your meds you should feel less 'in control'. Since I've been on the Divalproex, I have never felt more in control than I have ever been. I'm not feeling like such a windshield wiper maybe i'm just a low speed windshield wiper.

[crystal8080]

Yes, I don't know how many times I've said to my GP....I'M NOT SAD!!!!!!!!

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by crystal8080

IMO, if you are just ADHD and off your meds you should feel less 'in control'. Since I've been on the Divalproex, I have never felt more in control than I have ever been. I'm not feeling like such a windshield wiper maybe i'm just a low speed windshield wiper.

Well, I did feel more in control until I had about 3 outbursts in a row yesterday. I suppose this could be a hypomanic stage- I feel more self assured and confident, less foggy (= in control) but I'm also more likely to rip someone's head off. Or it could just be because I went unmedicated for a week.

I went ahead and took my ADHD meds after the outbursts happened, as I had some homework to do and I really can't read well without them.

They did seem to calm me down a lot. They always calm me down when I return to them after a break. If I stay on them for a week the manic thoughts will probably return though.

Does that sort of jive with your experience? Calming at first, but after several days you start to feel unstable?

I really can't tell if this is something like cyclothymia, or if it's just a rebound symptom, and I should take more meds throughout the day. The racing thoughts/ instability is at its worst when I'm rebounding.

I am going to talk to my doc about all this of course.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy12

i was wondering about the same thing a few days ago with regard to anti depressants. That is i've been thinking that the meds are causing my extreme one swings but I've always been very moody. When i read up on the different versions of bi polar i was quite surprised to see how well some of them fit me. If you do get diagnosed with it though would you be happy to take mood stabilisers?

I've been thinking more about how much our symptoms align and how much trouble we both have with meds. Has anyone ever mentioned bipolar to you? From what you've said about yourself, this might be what's going on. I can't imagine it would hurt for you to try a mood stabilizer, as it seems like SSRI's are really not working for you. Hopefully mood stabilizers are also easier to get in the UK than stimulants?

Have you read about how SSRI's can cause mood swings in Bipolar patients? It sounds like it's quite common.

At least ADHD meds "work" for me. They do exactly what they're supposed to do, but I still feel like something's missing. I always feel uneven, and it's not about happy to sad and back. I sort of feel like I'm always changing, I'm never even keeled, and the meds make this feeling worse sometimes, not always though.

[crystal8080]

Originally Posted by ana futura

Well, I did feel more in control until I had about 3 outbursts in a row yesterday. I suppose this could be a hypomanic stage- I feel more self assured and confident, less foggy (= in control) but I'm also more likely to rip someone's head off. Or it could just be because I went unmedicated for a week.

I went ahead and took my ADHD meds after the outbursts happened, as I had some homework to do and I really can't read well without them.

They did seem to calm me down a lot. They always calm me down when I return to them after a break. If I stay on them for a week the manic thoughts will probably return though.

Does that sort of jive with your experience? Calming at first, but after several days you start to feel unstable?

I really can't tell if this is something like cyclothymia, or if it's just a rebound symptom, and I should take more meds throughout the day. The racing thoughts/ instability is at its worst when I'm rebounding.

I am going to talk to my doc about all this of course.

Of course this is all speculation. I knew going into my appointment with my psychiatrist there was a list of things that could be wrong with me. Even though we have similar experiences, you really do need to have a doctor's evaluation. I don't want you getting all worked up and have it set in your mind that you have the same condition as me!

That being said.....yes. That is exactly what happened. I kept a mood diary- I suggest you start one too- every day a few sentences about my day. Anything of importance. When I started on the Dexedrine it calmed me down so much. I was able to do things around the house, and complete tasks, my outbursts got better, more patience with the children. Memory started to improve, and concentration.

About a few weeks later the wheels started coming off. Every day started going down from the last, and up again. Then it would plummet, and I had over 2 weeks of complete anger and irritability where I was waking up wondering why I was STILL IRRITABLE?? Those days I only wrote one or two words in my journal. Then I had a few great days, then it would go down again. I could start to see it now, looking over my journal every night. With a bad memory I was just floating along not realizing there was a pattern.

I had about 2 months of journal to give to my psychiatrist, but he didn't need them. He had already diagnosed me. When he suggested mood stabilisers I had to agree. I didn't even ask to know why. I asked the next visit.

[ana futura]

Originally Posted by crystal8080

About a few weeks later the wheels started coming off. Every day started going down from the last, and up again. Then it would plummet, and I had over 2 weeks of complete anger and irritability where I was waking up wondering why I was STILL IRRITABLE?? Those days I only wrote one or two words in my journal. Then I had a few great days, then it would go down again. I could start to see it now, looking over my journal every night. With a bad memory I was just floating along not realizing there was a pattern.

Thanks, I will keep a diary, that's a great idea.

You've been so helpful. I've had so much trouble figuring out why the meds are so inconsistent, and I haven't done the best job of explaining to my doc why I keep going on and off them.

[gizmo1]

I have bipolar I with psychotic features and ADHD. I take a mood stabilizer to control my mixed states (all the energy of a mania only extreme irritation, frustration, or anger instead of euphoria), an antipsychotic to control my mania, and an antidepressant for the depressions. I was diagnosed with bipolar a little over seven years ago, but I've had the mood episodes for about 25 years. I was diagnosed with ADHD about five months ago.

I've never had the meds (I've tried adderall and Ritalin, I'm now on a vyvanse/Dexedrine combo) give me manic/hypomanic symptoms. But I'm also not one of those BPers that gets triggered into a mania from taking a med like steroids or antidepressants.

So if you are having this reaction, I agree with the other poster who suggested keeping a mood journal. Even something as simple as a mood chart from a site like moodtracker.com will serve you well. And bring up the results with your doctor. Hopefully you can get this worked out with the assistance of your doctor.

[ana futura]

So I quit drinking coffee completely. I didn't think my two cups a day was causing problems, but it clearly was.

I've also been taking a consistent dose of meds daily, even when I don't want to take them. No more on and off. There are days when I just hate taking my meds, but I don't seem to be a person who can take them intermittently.

So far the results have been very good, and what I'm noticing is that the manic type thoughts are now only happening in the morning, before I take my medication. I think they are actually just amped up ADHD rebound thoughts. Once I take my meds, my thoughts calm down again.

I'm hoping it was just the coffee making me crash early and hard, and messing with the meds.

Hopefully this pattern continues, we'll see.