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  #1  
Old 11-28-12, 08:38 PM
daveddd daveddd is offline
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adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3123401/

just thought this was a good article with several good links
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  #2  
Old 11-28-12, 09:20 PM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

i wonder though, should it be an autistic spectrum disorder, or a PDD of its own

only because its seems this theory would result in very similar traits

it seems like it would be a deficit vs. inhibition issues?

that would certainly have much different treatment implications ?
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  #3  
Old 11-28-12, 09:31 PM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

"PDD" is autism, so if it's not autism, it wouldn't be classed under PDDs. I am not saying that ADHD is not pervasive, but rather that the label is intended to describe a specific cluster of disorders.

It's not surprising to me that people with ADHD have more autistic traits than would be expected. It shows a lot in what people post here, and I've a friend who has ADHD and a lot of autistic traits, although she is not herself autistic.

I do not think that ADHD is on the spectrum, but I do think a lot of people are rather spectrummy (as I mentioned above) and that the percentage of people with ADHD who also have autism is higher than the percentage of people in the general population. The reverse is even more true, but with greater frequency (33-75% of autistic people meet the criteria for ADHD across several studies).

Last edited by Fortune; 11-28-12 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 11-28-12, 09:44 PM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

i know what you mean, i meant maybe just specifiers

a lot of the articles seem to find an adhd+odd subset that comes up very often as a PDD nos

i feel like this represents a core temperament that is adhd-c with emotional regulation issues


i believe this results in some specific PDs

adhdc+emotional dysregulation

+externalizing acting out-odd/adhd

internalizing -borderline (the non abuse one)

internalizing+externalizing+inhibition =avoidant

if you control for the above behavior you have a profile that is almost to similar to ignore

personality dimensions, empathetic processes, social issues, impulsiveness and even learning disabilities

i may also being heading into a manic episode

hard to say
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Old 11-28-12, 10:27 PM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

also similar drugs responses and patterns of abuse

ritalin-positive

adderall/cocaine/other stimulants-very sensitive(mild paranoia-psychosis)
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  #6  
Old 11-28-12, 11:05 PM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

i think NTs are able to self soothe through things like self talk, social interaction and emotional reflection

due to our executive dysfunction and emotional issues we are unable to do this, or avoid situations that would accomplish this

leaving us to our instinctual drives (reward system dysfunction)

so obviously we use a wide variety of defense mechanisms

including perseveration, that may not be healthy, but is low in harm avoidance and can result in positives
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Old 11-29-12, 12:46 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

Fortune, why such a degree of overlap.. both ways?
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Old 11-29-12, 04:37 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

I suspect because while diagnoses are discrete categories, brains tend to have this fuzzy organic development thing going on, so if you have one thing not developing ideally, you might have more. But that's just what I think, I have no particular basis for it and evidence otherwise would encourage me to reconsider.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-12, 07:37 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21667451
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Old 11-29-12, 07:47 AM
daveddd daveddd is offline
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

the separation from classic autism is important for treatment reasons

the classic autism, represents a deficit

we (adhd as a pdd) get sarcasm, we have interest in social relationships

we all respond with "high distress" in empathic situations
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Old 11-29-12, 08:08 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
the separation from classic autism is important for treatment reasons

the classic autism, represents a deficit

we (adhd as a pdd) get sarcasm, we have interest in social relationships

we all respond with "high distress" in empathic situations
I know people diagnosed with "classic autism" who get sarcasm, are interested in social relationships, and even respond with high distress in empathic situations. This is not true across the board, but it is not impossible either.
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Old 11-29-12, 08:14 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

Also, a lot of people diagnosed with AS and PDD-NOS actually do meet the criteria for autism.
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Old 11-29-12, 08:18 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

thats where semantics become tricky for me

what i am talking about i believe can and often does garner a autism dx (mainly asperger, HFA)

due to meeting the criteria for autism

but, i believe what i am talking about is a syndromic and genetic neurological condition, with very specific underlying pathology (with different outcomes from the same problem)

to the outside world, i think autism is mainly viewed as the idiopathic , non verbal type of autism that is associated with actually deficits as opposed to dysfunction

same symptoms different problem

not trying to split anyone from any dx
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Old 11-29-12, 08:23 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

the only reason i sometimes refer to it as adhd, is because thats the forum we are on and it seems to be the dx in common with the pds and such i mentioned, plus the most prevalent

but unlike adhd pi who are driven by distraction

this common pathology is driven TO distraction
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Old 11-29-12, 08:30 AM
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Re: adhd an autism spectrum disorder?

Hopefully i will have expressed myself ok in this post, if not please ask any questions about it before jumping on my back thanks

I believe more than there being plenty of basis for there being no such thing as discrete categories of mental disorder, i believe there is no alternative.

Where the human brain is concerned categorization can be at best vague, and at worst completely incorrect leading to possible further adverse consequences through incorrect treatment. The current diagnostic taxonomy is in my opinion woefully inadequate due to a number of factors. Many apparently unrelated diagnoses share many similarities, (please bare with me on this part) there is a massive amount of what i guess you could call diagnostic duplication of effort, meaning people can easily jump from one diagnosis to another as symptoms from any number of apparently disparate disorders can be identified, seeing disorders as completely disparate from one other and their context would seem to be the wrong way of going about things, even though patterns can be spotted with certain more common groups of symptoms i do not believe this method to be particularly progressive and in fact becomes increasingly unintuitive and confusing.

In addition to this, the fact is the brain is an extremely complex neural network, so everything is interconnected, there is a constant mental/contextual interaction, so literally everything affects everything else at all times, this inevitably leads to a complexity far beyond anything current diagnostic language could possibly define with any degree of accuracy.

The basis for diagnosis is always going to be primarily a symptomatic view along with incomplete and possibly incorrect contextual knowledge. Due to the nature of the human brain you are ALWAYS going to end up with a complexity that defies any kind of generalized all encompassing wholly inclusive or accurate specification, even multiple diagnoses are going to be at best extremely abstracted. I have witnessed first hand diagnoses being handed out on a trial and error basis, where response to medication seems to be the only indication of accuracy in diagnosis, and a subjective view of improvement is seen as conclusive evidence of accurate diagnosis. This can obviously have extremely adverse consequences when found to be incorrect.

My view is the current diagnostic process is not fit for purpose, and at worst contrived in its confusion, i even believe the word "disorder" should be scrapped but that is another thread entirely, it is my view that a disorder in a person is an natural/organic process and thus a reflection of a disorder in society, and i know many will not share this opinion but it has not been effectively disputed at any point so it is one of those agree to disagree situations.

Maybe Dave or someone else could devise a taxonomy of mental states/disorders that can possibly more accurately reflect the state of the human brain, as you seem to have a knack of describing mental states in more objective terms. If such a diagnostic method could be achieved, it would be far more intuitive and helpful, as it would have the ability to have aspects of such diagnoses altered incrementally, more in keeping with the organic nature of the brain as opposed to the over simplistic more subjective and quite frankly inadequate language used to define current mental states/disorders.

I hope i have expressed myself adequately although i fear i most probably have not.

Last edited by Subtract81; 11-29-12 at 09:00 AM..
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