Old ADD adult warrior warns newcomers

[Andrew]

Norbert,

If you're looking for where your post thread was moved to, please click the following link:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...&threadid=2319
You post was moved to the "Introductions" part of the Forum.

[smooch]

Originally posted by innocentat50
....I just noticed that smooch, whoever this is, moved the thread. I do not know where to or what this means, ...

Greetings, Norbert

Smooch here. I recently became the Moderator of the ADDults section of ADD Forums. This means that it is my responsibility to monitor the threads (and their respective posts) to be certain that Members are following the guidelines to which they agreed upon joining the Forums.

This responsibility also allows me to move threads (or certain posts from those threads) from the ADDults section to other sections if I feel they should be a topic/thread unto themselves, if they belong in another section due to their subject content, or if separating them from their original "start" and moving them somewhere else would give the Member's message more "visability," etc.

These last two reasons are why I chose to move your initial post (and the subsequent responses) to the section created for the purpose of introducing new Members: "Introductions & Stories." You were both introducing yourself to and asking for help and support from the Forums Members, but you were also somewhat "buried" in another thread.

As I am still a bit new to all this Forums stuff, and especially the Moderating part, I understand your annoyance and sincerely apologize for causing you any frustration when you came looking for your first posts. I wanted to bring you to the "front" and be certain the Members would see your posts.

Originally posted by innocentat50
....but the reason I am writing now is that smooch has several quotes at the end of his/her paragraphs and I have an issue with one of them. It is the quote by Eleanor Roosevelt that says "nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission". This quote is wrong. totally wrong. Eleanor Roosevelt did not know what she was talking about when and if she said that. Have you ever considered what happens when little children are made to feel inferior? .....

To continue, I acknowledge your position regarding the quote I have chosen to include in my signature. I completely understand and agree with children not exactly having the "option" to give someone permission to make them feel inferior. There is another thread in this section that you might find interesting and somewhat related to your sentiments: http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...&threadid=2134
The title of this thread is "not had an abusive childhood?"

I believe Ms. Roosevelt aimed this statement at adults. I chose to include this quote in my signature because it has personal meaning for me. Perhaps others who see it receive some benefit from its message, or maybe they don't.

Thank you for your comments on it, though. We know a little bit more about you, and I'm sure you'll find more Members who share similar painful memories.

That's the beauty of these Forums: we're one big family of support, understanding, acceptance, ...yet we also can air our differences in opinion, as long as we follow the Forum Guidelines.

Welcome to the fam, man!

PS--I'm a 32 year-old female and was diagnosed with ADD Inattentive Type at the age of 28.

[Wheel1975]

Originally posted by innocentat50
Hi,
...

I do not know where to or what this means, but the reason I am writing now is that smooch has several quotes at the end of his/her paragraphs and I have an issue with one of them. It is the quote by Eleanor Roosevelt that says "nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission". This quote is wrong. totally wrong.
...
It was only 2 days ago that I realized that when she said all of these things that I had straight A's in school, played better piano than ALL of my classmates, and could not possibly have been inferior.

Yet, ... feel inferior because I was dependent and unable to make up my own mind.

I felt inferior and never stood up for myself.

Therefore whatever came along bowled me right over and I often just stepped back when someone else wanted something that belonged to me.

Anyway, my experience may apply to many other people who for whatever reason cannot stand up to whoever makes them feel inferior.

Just my own 2cents worth.

Dear Innocentat50,

welcome! So far as i can tell you are doing fine with the threads.

(They had me so confused i went away for months before I came back and got the hang of it. You are doing great!)

I'd like to propose that you are both right.

I think the difference is what people call symantics but may more accurately be point of view.

Children are in a particularly vulnerable position. Even if you could find a self -assured child who couldn't be made to feel inferior by a parent, the existance of that individual would not prove the point for all children, or even any others.

But at the same time, your recent revelations of the value of standing up for ourself are, as far as I can tell correct! And when you do hold the line and stand up for yourself, others can berate you, but you may be able to maintain your own self impression by doing what i used to hear as "considering the source!" That just meant if a jerk said it, give it no weight.

So my proposal is that what you have discovered about standing up for yourself, and the power and value of that, is what the quote is trying to point out as well. but without the detail that you provided in your discussion, it can easily be taken to mean things that are less than likely to be true.

does that make sense or seem like I played too many word games as a kid?

Any way, glad to read that you are in this space of self re-discovery.

Many of us have been there a few times, and speaking only for myself, it is a time of liberation and of grief. I try not to let the one get me down to much or the other blind me to the practicalities of life.

[innocentat50]

Dear David,
the point I was trying to make when I mentioned that children do not have a"choice" goes beyond the respective child. What a child learns is often forgotten from consciense thought before the child becomes an adult, but assumed as being universally true by the subconscience for the rest of the person's life unless you go through something like TAW and discover the underlying truth by accident as you write your morning pages.
May you meet your responsibilities with love, creativity, and insight

[mctavish23]

Dear Warrior,

That was one of the most compelling posts I have ever read.It was delivered eloquently but still kicks you in the gut at the same time;as it is clearly straight from the heart.

When I spent a week with ADHD researcher Russell Barkley in Aug, the first thing he said to the audience, which was made up of all professionals, was that the most important thing he would like for us to take back to our respective communities at large was for the public to realize just how devastatng a disorder ADHD is. He then compared it to Bipolar in terms of the need to take medication for the rest of your life and made a similiar analogy to the diabetics need to take insulin.Keep in mind that that was the ONLY thing he was insinuating and he was NOT trying to make any other comparisons.I've seen people get sidetracked by that statement and miss the point, so I always try and preface those remarks. It's a serious disorder that requires taking meds for the rest of your life was his one and only point there. When you come to understand the chemical imbalance that is ADHD and the impact on the brain, it becomes obvious why that is true.

I hope things get better for you .There's no accounting for the human spirit and you are obviously a fighter.Therefore, the name "warrior" fits you well.Take care and thank you for the post.It was inspiring.

[innocentat50]

Dear Mctavish23,
I have been diagnosed with ADD ten years ago and diabetes about 7 years ago. On top of that I was told that I have Bipolar 2. Except for one job that I had for more than 6 years all of my jobs had a longevity of less than 3 years. My main problems are the recurring depression that sometimes impairs my movement and sometimes you may find me rolled up in the back of a closet crying for no apparent reason at all, and my inability to keep myself focused when I need to and not focused when I don't need to. ADD is really an attention inconsistency disorder. For some people it is not even a disorder but rather a benefit, depending on what profession you have. For example, while Freddy Prince was alive he was hyper most of the time, on a bi-polar high (ADD and bipolar was recently found to go to gether, reason still unknown) and that was what made his career, and another example is Tom Hartmann who is very happy with his ADD and wrote books about it. That inconsistency is what drives me now to re-evaluate my profession and switch from what I was doing for 32 years to something new. Recent aptitude and interest tests showed that I should be looking in the direction of creative art and that is what brought me to read The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Julia was married to Martin Scorsese and, in her own words "produced 3 movies and one daughter" with him. Anyway, I read and work through her book now and hope to come up with an answer that fits my aptitude and can be accomplished with ADD.
May you meet your responsibilities with love, creativity, and insight.

[Wheel1975]

Sometimes, Norbert, it is obvoius in this life, that regardless of how the facts turn out, someone's walk of their life is obviously good.

It sounds like you are making course corrections for yourself that will make you the master of your eventual destiny, to your own benefit and that of others as well.

I applaud the "good fight" you are having to wage. Be merciful to what you have been as you chose a different path for your own future. It is what has gotten you to where you could make these choices about these things. It has given you the opportunity to discover and act with courage.

Good for you! -- David

[Garry]

Originally posted by mctavish23
Dear Warrior,


When I spent a week with ADHD researcher Russell Barkley in Aug,

Dear Mr mctavish23

Not havening a way with words that some of the people with ADD seem to have I am usually quite blunt with what I have to say but I will apologies first for my bluntness and now I will continue with my post.

I find your posts to be quite informative in many ways but I also find your continual, Name Dropping " as I call it to be very annoying.

Its wonderful that you have had the opportunity to spend so much of your time with many of these so called important people that you keep referencing, but to myself in particular being that I don't know these particular people or have ever heard of them each time you do this "Name Dropping" it diminishes what you might be trying to say in your post!!

Most of us here are just plain old ordinary folk, who get up each day and try to eak out an existence in a Linear Thinking World. I myself really have a problem with understanding, a lot of what you are trying to say due to the continual reference to people I don't know and the use of "BIG WORDS" that I find possibly unnecessary.

In your first post you claimed that "you wished to try and help us " and if that is your possible reason for being here then I commend you for it and take the time to say, "THANK YOU"

But my opinion for what it is worth, would be that if you could use some of your knowledge and intellect to possibly tone your use of the English language down to a level that I myself and possibly others here at the forums could understand, then maybe some of the stuff your trying to say might make more sense, to me anyway.

This I do not consider to be a criticism of you, but just a plain old BLUNT down to earth, "request" to you to ask you to speak in a dialog of plain old "STREET English".

There is a post on here somewhere about reading and posting in short concise paragraphs which makes it easier for ADDers to understand.

If I have to take the time to look up the meaning of all the "BIG WORDS" , by the time I'm done I have forgotten "What The Post Was Supposed To Be About"



Once again I would like to apologies for my BLUNTNESS and I would also like to state that this is "MY OPINION" and I open myself up to any criticism and the wrath of anyone who would like to chastise me for being me and speaking my mind.



Thank you
Garry

[Wheel1975]

This is also an academic problem.

In academia it seems that no thought is considered valid unless you can catch someone else having said it previously.

Some times all the "bowing" to the past makes it hard to tell what the current point is.

I might understadn that I should be on the same pitard for using big words in my posts. Even then, I too often feel i am not being as accurate to what I wish to say as i would wish to be.

I'm not sure of a solution.

I'm willing to continue being part of the discussion though...

[Wheel1975]

pe·tard (p?-tärd?)*Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A small bell-shaped bomb used to breach a gate or wall.
2. A loud firecracker.


[French pétard, from Old French, from peter, to break wind, from pet, a breaking of wind, from Latin p?ditum, from neuter past participle of p?dere, to break wind. See pezd- in Indo-European Roots.]

Word History: The French used pétard, “a loud discharge of intestinal gas,” for a kind of infernal engine for blasting through the gates of a city. “To be hoist by one's own petard,” a now proverbial phrase apparently originating with Shakespeare's Hamlet (around 1604) not long after the word entered English (around 1598), means “to blow oneself up with one's own bomb, be undone by one's own devices.” The French noun pet, “fart,” developed regularly from the Latin noun p?ditum, from the Indo-European root *pezd-, “fart.”

Now see... I didn't know all that about petard, and i didn't spell it right... oh well.

[Wheel1975]

Can vulnerablitiy and humilty make up for obscurity? probably not.

But might it make it easier to endure?

[Andrew]

Just a quick comment to remind all of you that if you have a personal suggestion or criticism to make of an individual, that is not specific to a thread, you are encouraged to make use of the PM (Private Message) function at the ADD Forums.

Having known mctavish for quite some time, I can assure you that he has nothing but the best of intentions for posting in here, joined at my suggestion, and would certainly only mention someone's name if it was associated with particular material he was referencing, gave credit for a quote, or was relating a story.

Russell Barkley is one of the top leading researchers in ADHD, and I for one am thrilled that mctavish got to meet him, and listen to him, as it can only benefit us in the end.

I'm glad that people feel comfortable posting their honest opinions in this forum...that's important. I also would ask that each of you show the same patience, tolerance and understanding of others that you would like shown to yourselves.

My private message box is open to all who wish to contact me.

[Wheel1975]

Originally posted by BIG
Just a quick comment to remind all of you that if you have a personal suggestion or criticism to make of an individual, that is not specific to a thread, you are encouraged to make use of the PM (Private Message) function at the ADD Forums.

...

I'm glad that people feel comfortable posting their honest opinions in this forum...that's important. I also would ask that each of you show the same patience, tolerance and understanding of others that you would like shown to yourselves.

I will take your point, but that may not deal with an issue that is bigger than an individual.

Even if there is an encyclopedia of information documented, I think Garry's point is that in a "down to earth" environment, composing posts in language that is not 18th Grade in structure, form and culture, might be an important thing to do.

Hospitals have found that the patient information needs to be written in 6th grade english. The reasons are many, but include:

Not everyone is a college graduate, nor do they speak english as their first langauge. Under stress and in unfamiliar technical ground, the effective reading level of everyone drops, sometimes a lot. When dealing with emotional issues this is all the more true.

Even Culturally, citing sources is a foreign practice. For those who do it. it is a sign of respect, maybe even a requirement. But for those with attentional and emotional issues, education al or language issues, all that citation stuff just burries the point.

I don't think Garry was asking anyone note to post. I don't think Garry was asking anyone not to share. I don't think Garry was asking anyone not to use what they knew.

I think Garry was asking that the family tree of the idea, all the way back to Adam, was not really part of the idea, and could the ideas please be presented to stand or fall on their own, without embedded "authoritative distraction or support."

In all fairness, in the most formal papers footnotes are used to the same purpose... to avoid hiding the idea, while separately giving recognition and heraldry and perhaps even the ability to find out more. Separately rather than embedded is probably the solution.

For those who cannot resist making mention of the source of their information, it would be perhaps better to list the sources after the points have been made, rather than embedding them.

I hope i have not inappropriately spoken for anyone.

And what are we going to do about all my syllables! GeezE!

Hey, this guy (me [i]) is a wrok in progress. {we hope!}

[Wheel1975]

Originally posted by mctavish23
Dear Warrior,

That was one of the most compelling posts I have ever read.It was delivered eloquently but still kicks you in the gut at the same time;as it is clearly straight from the heart.

1) realize just how devastatng a disorder ADHD is.

2) compared it to Bipolar in terms of the need to take medication for the rest of your life and made a similiar analogy to the diabetics need to take insulin.

It's a serious disorder that requires taking meds for the rest of your life

3) Barkley is sometimes misunderstood about this.


I hope things get better for you .There's no accounting for the human spirit and you are obviously a fighter. Therefore, the name "warrior" fits you well. Take care and thank you for the post.

It was inspiring.

[mct]

Footnotes:

1) When I spent a week with ADHD researcher Russell Barkley in Aug, the first thing he said to the audience, which was made up of all professionals, was that the most important thing he would like for us to take back to our respective communities at large was for the public to

2)He then ... was his one and only point there.

3) Keep in mind that that was the ONLY thing he was insinuating and he was NOT trying to make any other comparisons.

I've seen people get sidetracked by that statement and miss the point, so I always try and preface those remarks.

When you come to understand the chemical imbalance that is ADHD and the impact on the brain, it becomes obvious why that is true.

So, Garry, is the edited version better? or Worse?

Also, i couldn't help commenting on the content, from an assumptions point of view... below...


[editors note: just because unbalancing chemicals (with drugs) may produce a benefit OR because an imbalance of chemicals is present, does not mean that the cause of the difficulty is the imbalance.

STRESS can unbalance chemicals, as can brain structure differences, that each then have other effects.

In such a case not taking the time to address STRESS becomes an overly local analysis.

Symptomatic treaments may constipate the problem, but certainly not SOLVE it.]

[Wheel1975]

Originally posted by mctavish23
Keep in mind that that was the ONLY thing he was insinuating and he was NOT trying to make any other comparisons.

might you have meant more nearly?:

Keep in mind that that was the ONLY thing he was stating and he was NOT trying to insinuate or make any other comparisons.


The placement of the negative makes all the difference, in my view.

I'm still trying to listen closely, and I am easily thrown off by things that don't seem to line up straight.

thanks for your pateince with my literalisms.