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General Medication Discussion This section is to be used for general medication discussion and other medications not broken out in their own respective forums.

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Old 02-11-05, 01:13 PM
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Can we get better with hard work instead of a pill

I keep reading all these posts with people saying how while on Add medication their Motivation is so much better and how much they get done . Isn't this the effect that stimulants have on just about everyone ADD or not . Now that I am off medication getting motivated is the main thing I miss and if I need to exercise clean house study or just about anything that I have trouble motivating myself to do I always wish I had my ADD meds . I guess what I am saying as I read how people who are not ADD react to stimulants it seems that is the same as those of us who are ADD .

Give a ADD student a stimulant and it helps them in school ... Give a non ADD student a stimulant and it helps them in school ... Give a ADD person a stimulant and it helps them get organized and motivated ... Give a non ADD person a stimulant and it helps them get organized and motivated . Give a ADD person a stimulant and it helps them workout and loose weight . Give a non ADD person a stimulant and it helps them workout and loose weight . And on and on ...
I guess I just want to start taking Adderall or Ritilan or Dexedrin again ... and I am defiantly ADD and have been since I was a child . I just now question the whole idea that we need this drug any more than the non ADD people who it does the same thing for . I think many of us who are ADD have trouble with motivation but taking a drug that helps with motivation may be going at the symptom and not the problem . I think when I am off the meds and must really work on the things that help my ADD i get better becuase my skills at dealing with ADD get better . When I was on the meds I got better when I took a pill but my ADD was only better on the pill becuase I did not need to develop skills to control the ADD the pill did the work for me .
I think it is possible to get much better if we learn to control ADD without medication but it takes a lot of work and you must motivate yourself and not rely on the pill to do all the work . I know this concept is not going to be popular with a lot of people and I ask . Is it not popular becuase it is just easier to take a pill or .... Or is it not popular becuase you really think you do not have the power within yourself to do on your own what the pill is doing for you .

Looking back at almost 7 years on a stimulant and how it gave me this artificial motivation that I became dependent on ... I am starting to think I cheated myself out of the skills to do on my own what the drug was doing . Now that I have been off for a year I can motivate myself to do anything the meds motivated me to do if I want it bad enough I just had to develop new skills Skills I always possessed but never used until I did not have the pill . I just wanted to share this with you becuase if a Dr had said to me I could have gotten much better without drugs and taught me skills to get better I would have chosen the drug free way .

Again as I look back on it the Dr gave me the pills becuase it was the easy thing for him to do ... listen to me talk and write out a script instead of really helping me get better . Like a diet you only keep the weight off while you are on the diet if you go off the diet the weight comes back . The ADD only gets better when you are on the pill when you stop the pill the ADD comes back . With weight if you work hard and change your habits and lifestyle the weight stays off becuase it is a lifestyle change that is permanent . With ADD I also think if you work hard and change your habits and lifestyle the ADD really gets better and stays better becuase it is a true lifestyle change that is permanent .
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Old 02-11-05, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mee
Isn't this the effect that stimulants have on just about everyone ADD or not....I guess what I am saying as I read how people who are not ADD react to stimulants it seems that is the same as those of us who are ADD.
Ummmm......No. Not true at all, actually. Someone on stimulant therapy who does not NEED stimulant therapy will not react the same way as an ADHDer on a prescribed med in proper dose. Anyone taking stimulant meds that doesn't require them is generally stealing someone's rx, buying it from them illegally, or is on crack, cocaine, or God knows what else. I would hardly find anything I "read" about the positive effects they have as being from a reliable source.

Quote:
Give a ADD student a stimulant and it helps them in school ... Give a non ADD student a stimulant and it helps them in school ... Give a ADD person a stimulant and it helps them get organized and motivated ... Give a non ADD person a stimulant and it helps them get organized and motivated . Give a ADD person a stimulant and it helps them workout and loose weight . Give a non ADD person a stimulant and it helps them workout and loose weight . And on and on

Ummmm......No, again. Give an ADHD student a prescribed stimulant and it helps them do better in school. Give it to a NON-ADHD student and watch as they freak out with anxiety and think they're going to have a heart attack, get a major headache, and quite possibly act more spastic than any ADHDer ever did. Yes, I've actually seen it. The paragraph above is completely out of the realm of anything even close to proven scientific research.


Quote:
I guess I just want to start taking Adderall or Ritilan or Dexedrin again ... and I am defiantly ADD and have been since I was a child . I just now question the whole idea that we need this drug any more than the non ADD people who it does the same thing for . I think many of us who are ADD have trouble with motivation but taking a drug that helps with motivation may be going at the symptom and not the problem.
You question the idea of meds...yet you want them. OK. Makes me think, say.......addiction problem? Do you see the contradiction in thought?? I would personally love not to have to take my meds. No, they don't "cure" the "problem." FYI, many of the drugs you likely take on a daily basis don't "cure" the "problem." Ever taken a cough drop? Ever taken a decongestant? Ever taken a pain reliever? Why? They weren't curing the "problem" either. Your hypothesis here reminds me of the evangelist dude who told my deeply spiritual mother she could cure her own Multiple Sclerosis if her heart and mind were really in the right place! Your line of thinking here is just about equally incredulous. But incredulous is a surefire way to get me to LMAO so perhaps I should thank you for the diversion.

Quote:
I think when I am off the meds and must really work on the things that help my ADD i get better becuase my skills at dealing with ADD get better . When I was on the meds I got better when I took a pill but my ADD was only better on the pill becuase I did not need to develop skills to control the ADD the pill did the work for me.
Interesting. Again, you think you were a better person, gaining more and more skill off your meds....but want them back...As for the pill doing all the work so that you didn't need to, I can tell you for certain that my meds are necessary...HOWEVER, they don't do anything to make me a better, more skillful, more insightful, learned person. Same is true for anyone else here. Any progress we make is because we DON'T rely on meds to "do the work." Do you understand that at all? I'm almost wondering if you really AREN'T ADHD because I find your ideology so impossible to believe coming from someone who has dealt with the utter anguish of this.

Quote:
I think it is possible to get much better if we learn to control ADD without medication but it takes a lot of work and you must motivate yourself and not rely on the pill to do all the work . I know this concept is not going to be popular with a lot of people and I ask . Is it not popular becuase it is just easier to take a pill or .... Or is it not popular becuase you really think you do not have the power within yourself to do on your own what the pill is doing for you.
If you thought that for real, you wouldn't want your meds back. Period on that score. As for the question of being powerless within oneself to make change....I could give you a spiel that would blow your hair back on that one. I could tell you of people here who have overcome more difficulty because ot the POWER WITHIN THEM than you would clearly be able to comprehend. Personally, I don't cower to obstacles. Not before meds, not after. And while your comments might be funny to me, I haven't struggled with near the amount of wrongdoing and injustice due to my ADHD as many here. You words have the potential to hurt those who have dealt with the stereotypical, judgmental, abusive behavior that sometimes, make that A LOT of the time, comes with ADHD.

Quote:
Looking back at almost 7 years on a stimulant and how it gave me this artificial motivation that I became dependent on ... I am starting to think I cheated myself out of the skills to do on my own what the drug was doing . Now that I have been off for a year I can motivate myself to do anything the meds motivated me to do if I want it bad enough I just had to develop new skills Skills I always possessed but never used until I did not have the pill . I just wanted to share this with you becuase if a Dr had said to me I could have gotten much better without drugs and taught me skills to get better I would have chosen the drug free way.
Just my opinion, but a post such as yours would not have come from someone who had actually had any real ADHD realization or enlightenment. Honestly, it's much more akin to the spouting done by those who have no idea what ADHD is in the first place. Do you think, btw, that my mom could "cure" her problem using your theory? Please do tell if so. I would LOVE to know the secret.


Quote:
Again as I look back on it the Dr gave me the pills becuase it was the easy thing for him to do ... listen to me talk and write out a script instead of really helping me get better . Like a diet you only keep the weight off while you are on the diet if you go off the diet the weight comes back . The ADD only gets better when you are on the pill when you stop the pill the ADD comes back.
My Doc isn't like that at all.....must be that I'm just so charming to talk to. And guess what? If you've got strep throat and don't take antibiotics that'll come back too. If you've got high blood pressure and don't take your meds, it comes back. If you've got cancer and don't take the chemo or radiation....it AIN'T going away on it's own....If you had any such condition what would you do then?

Quote:
With weight if you work hard and change your habits and lifestyle the weight stays off becuase it is a lifestyle change that is permanent . With ADD I also think if you work hard and change your habits and lifestyle the ADD really gets better and stays better becuase it is a true lifestyle change that is permanent .
WOW!!!!!!! I agree with you on something. Good physical fitness is an important part of a healthy lifestyle. Let's see.....Monogamy is a lifestyle, too. There are lots of different lifestyles. ADHD isn't a lifestyle. And if people actually read this entire post of yours, THAT"S WHY IT"S GOING TO BE "unpopular."
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Old 02-11-05, 05:36 PM
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Hmmm I was going to comment on this thread...but \heh Free done it for me..I dont think i can improve on that.
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Old 02-11-05, 06:35 PM
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FREE GIVES DRAGA A BIG HUG.

I KNOW IT ISN'T EXACTLY AS GOOD AS A DINNER INVITATION FROM JOSH.....BUT IT'S THE BEST I CAN DO.


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"After silence, that which comes closest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley

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Old 02-11-05, 06:41 PM
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Yep, I think all the major points got covered!
What bothers me about "Mee's" point of view is the contention that the stimulant is some sort of cheat that makes life easy. Rather it levels the playing field - with stimulants we are more like "normal" people with regards to procrastination, focus, willpower, etc. Most of use ADDers - especially those who have been diagnosed later in life - bristle at the words "if he/she would/could only work harder" since we've been hearing it most of our lives, so to hear it from someone who claims to be "one of us", especially when put in the form of "you should quit taking pills and just work harder", is galling to say the least!
I don't question "Mee's" right to an opinion and to express it freely, and the choice to take or not to take medication is a personal decision - to each his own - but I do not like the "Holier than thou" attitude.
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Old 02-11-05, 06:58 PM
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greg,

my thoughts exactly. well....you know.....the short, readable version!!!! LOL!!!!
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"After silence, that which comes closest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley

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Old 02-11-05, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free2bme
FREE GIVES DRAGA A BIG HUG.

I KNOW IT ISN'T EXACTLY AS GOOD AS A DINNER INVITATION FROM JOSH.....BUT IT'S THE BEST I CAN DO.

Just the thought of entertaining the notion still does not compare to a big hug from a friend ...Can I get an AWEEEE
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Old 02-11-05, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Draga
Just the thought of entertaining the notion still does not compare to a big hug from a friend ...Can I get an AWEEEE

AWWWEEEE!!!!!
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"I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues." Duke Ellington

"After silence, that which comes closest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley

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Old 02-11-05, 08:22 PM
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I just found that that the stimulants that gave me so much relief in the beginning but after a few years started to loose their effectiveness and the side effects started to cause problems . Most of the post I read here seem to be from people who have been on stimulants for only a few years . My problems with side effects started to get bad after many years of building up tolerance to these drugs and having to take higher doses as time went on . Just was wondering if anyone has experienced the same thing .

P. S. Gregster I understand what you are saying and do not mean to come off the wrong way ..... I just found that the side effects of many years on these drugs started to take its toll , and they did not work like they did in the beginning once I would build tolerance .
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Old 02-11-05, 10:06 PM
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Free, thanks for saying it for me.

Mee, could you be more specific about the side effects so we can get a better understanding of your comments? I was told that "tolerance" means "addiction".
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Old 02-11-05, 10:49 PM
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tolerance is constant need to raise the dose to get the same effect ..... is there no one here who has experienced this
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Old 02-11-05, 10:58 PM
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This is from the Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy:
“Two concepts contribute to the definition of drug dependence: tolerance, which describes the need to progressively increase the dose to produce the effect originally achieved with smaller doses, and physical dependence, a state of physiologic adaptation to a drug, manifested by a withdrawal (abstinence) syndrome. In a withdrawal syndrome, untoward physiologic changes occur when the drug is discontinued or when its effect is counteracted by a specific antagonist that displaces the agonist from its binding site on cell receptors. Physical dependence does not accompany all forms of drug dependence.”
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Old 02-11-05, 11:25 PM
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When I read articles like these ...


http://www.ucsbdailynexus.com/news/2005/8847.html

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/hea...99/detail.html

where non ADD people seem to be getting the same benefits as I do for things like studying it seems that these drugs give non ADD people an edge also ...... am I allowed to make observations like this on this board ...
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Old 02-11-05, 11:52 PM
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Oh, Mee,
These are articles in the media. The expert who assessed and observed me before and after medication, and then made his diagnosis of ADD, told me that everyone benefits a little by stimulant medication. People like me benefit a LOT with medication and in specific ways. I, too, asked about "tolerance" as I had heard this about stimulants and he told me the same information that I quoted from the Merck Manual.I do not "speed" on Ritalin, I calm down - the paradoxil effect. Coffee does not keep me awake at night. In fact, one of the old questions for potential ADDers was, "How much caffeine do you consume each day?", as in self-medication.
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Old 02-12-05, 12:03 AM
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In for a penny . . .
I also don't get "high" on Cannabis. When I was given a dose of morphine for extreme post-surgical pain I did not get drugged or feel "high", just pain free and alert.

I became concerned and confused by media reports about the street use of stimulants and asked an expert. He explained that the non-ADD recreational use of Ritalin is as an enhancer with other drugs at much larger doses than normal, therapeutic doses. Have you read any media reports that add that little bit of information?
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