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  #16  
Old 06-09-05, 12:34 AM
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For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. ?
I am gathering your partner has a hard time with money management!!! Have you two sat down and talked about how his over draft fees is a problem for you, along with "ways" to prevent this over draft thing from happening??? Is your partner some one who will listen and cooperate???? If not then I would definatly get seperate checking accounts!!!

I go bonkers if I "bounce" a check!!!!! I hate paying out unnecessary expenses, especially sinse you get nothing in return!!!!! I have had to keep seperate accounts for this very reason. I have rarly been fortunate enough to meet and live with a man who could manage money and a checking account. If they have checks they seem to think that means they have money!!! Sooo they can pay thier own stupid over draft fees. I will try to handle the situation nicely, but if the "problem" continues (which it usually does) I seperate the finances, and keep a seperate savings and checking account. I personally prefer NOT to have my name on there account because if it is that still menas I am responsible for fees and THAT drives me more bonkers!!!!!


Quote:
I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything,?
Merge every thing culture expectation Hmmmm. Would this be the same as share a life together????

I am highly allergic to grass, I can not mow the grass and we live on almost an acher of land. This huge "task" has become Gary's part of the house hold chores. Should he shuck the responsibility then he can deal with complaints of neighbors or fees imposed by the city. I do my part and expect him to do the same. When he shucks his part then I do what I can to allow him to face the consequences ALONE!!!! Gary on the other hand is "allergic" to dishes and washing machines. These are my part of our house hold duties.

We both live here and it is both our responsibility to keep the place livible however we have found it to be more effecient and productive if he does certain things I do other things, ,and a couple of the clean up task we do together. Some times he will do dishes for me (but it is a rarity) I will pick up trash or sticks in the yard before he mows (this too is a rarity)

Money Gary prefers to handle the money, which is okay by me as long as he handles it productively. It will be okay with me as long as I maintain an equal opnion when it comes to major purchases, and monthly expenses. Gary used to handle both the money and the "books" he did the filing. However his filing was basically piling. When ever we need to find a reciet or contract it was a two day ordeal. THIS drove me NUTS, what could possible be so hard about filing things in some sort of logical order. I want to be able to access any reciet, document in UNDER a MONTH.

Gary was unable to keep paper work organized and easily accessable. If we needed to find a document that was HIS problem. I would help if I had the time (I would not sacrafice my responsibilities, or personal computer/hobby either) I helped until I lost interest (avarage attention span of five minutes) We are self employeed good record keeping can become important. He would try to "blame me" or manipulate me into feeling guilty for not wanting to help. I pegged him immediatly. He want to keep all the business records in a pile because he always has them that way (opposed to keeping them in a file by date or catagory) fine he can dig through the piles like he did before I came!!!! I refused to feel guily because a grown man choose to file a certain way and now has to deal with his personal choice!!!!

I kept my presonal records seperate shortly after we began working together. After about a year Gary asked if I could keep the records accociated with our business. Sinse I have as much to benefit from good business record keeping I agreed to keep the business records in exchage for relief from other duties associated with our business. Gary still keeps records that pretain to him only. Like his truck insurance, drivers license renewal ect....

Sharing a life does not mean you both have to share each and every task. As long as you are both equally responsible then who does what should be what ever works for the two of you!!!!

The key NEGIOATE, each do what you as people are best suited to do. Culture expectations may not accurately reflect your individual strengths and weakness.If you are better with money then handle the money. If your partner has a problem with you handling all the finances then divide the bills fairly. He become responsible for his assigned bills and you become responsible for yours. What is wrong with that????!!!!

Sharing a life to me means sharing responsibility, how this is done should depend on the couples abilities and preferences!!!

Quote:
and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder.?
Okay why does it frighten you??? The hardest part of the "detachment" thing would be to aviod rescueing some one who is irresponsible??? If you work together and are able to be honest and open with your selves and eachother arrange things so they work for you then rescueing should be kept to a minum!!!!!

Rescueing becomes a problem when one partner is not honest with them selves/ the other person/ doesn't want to carry an equal part in the work portion/ suffer consequences of personal choices. Some folks may not know how to do these things but if they are truly interested in making a life with you then they will be willing to make an attempt at learning!!!


Quote:
So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?

A partnership of any variety requires both parties to share the responsibility. Sharing may entail division of some details and task. Remember you are a partner not a parent. Most healthy couple have things they do they do seperately, these things include chores hobbys and even activities. They also have parts of their life they share with eachother. Healthy partnerships mean healthy individual boundaries and mutual respect of such boundaries. Your boundaries are as individual as you are.

Maybe looking at what each of you expects from this relationship and what each person is willing to "bring to the table" may help you two find possible causes of conflict. Remember to keep things specific non-blaming and free of drama!!!!

Good luck!!!!!
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  #17  
Old 06-09-05, 01:33 AM
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letting go of the cheque book

As with most things, it's not in the "getting it" so much as in the practise. All go and no show!

I did not tackle the big things first. I tackled the smallest things I could imagine, to acquaint myself with the "practise".

I would identify anything I could grasp. I started by trying to identify some small thing that was eating at me, like a particular person in a meeting that just bugged me to look at them. Any time I was being selfish, irritable or discontent, I had an opportunity to let go. I was all of those things often enough to completely obliterate any gratitude for any of the good things in life.

Lately it's been focused on the flylady.net site and her attitude to taking responsibility and avoiding blame. I think she's got the train on the tracks that woman!

I've taken over the groceries, dishes, laundry and you know, I'm a whole lot happier, and I get a cleaner house and look Mum! No missing socks!

I can't say for you where your beginning would be. I don't know that anyone can pick the points you have available to jump onto the gratitude bus.

I do know that PU became willing to do "anything" to regain some sanity in her life. She stopped blaming me. She began to take responsibility for what was within her power and began to relinquish control of those things she was powerless in.

Cheque books and finances must be very difficult. If he insists on maintaining control over these things maybe you should get a job. If you are a woman with no clout financially you are enslaved and powerless over your life. I suggest all women should consider Independence in this respect.

It may be possible to talk your way into making sense to him about how much more effective it would be if you could manage the funds. Allowing him flexibility while maintaining your sensible management might work if you can sell it to him.

If worst comes to worst you may have to be willing to let it all go down the toilet in hopes of him seeing the light. That sounds extreme but that's what PU did. She had the money but she certainly did not continue to prop up the marriage and became quite willing to allow it to fall completely apart even though that was the last thing she wanted. She had let go of any expectation of successful resolution to the troubles entirely. I believe this is what finally got through to me. I could not see it until she no longer actually "needed" to be together. She wanted to be together but she no longer needed it.

It really helps to meet with others in the same shoes as you. A support group is a great help. It's where I found my "elders" who had walked the road before me and were willing to share their stories for me to see myself in reflection.

I think you've answered your own question to some degree in being "less merged". I'd sure like to hear the updates.
Cheers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmgirl
Ian, thanks for a really thought-provoking article. This is something I'm really trying to work out for myself right now.

I'm new to these forums, a non-ADD partner of an ADD man.

Here's a question - I *get* the detaching thing (doesn't mean I don't struggle to do it!) but I'm wondering, what are some physical, practical measures folks have taken to detach. Like, one situation I'm thinking of is the checkbook, the finances...shared things in a shared household. For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything, and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder. So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?
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Old 06-09-05, 11:56 AM
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If worst comes to worst you may have to be willing to let it all go down the toilet in hopes of him seeing the light. That sounds extreme but that's what PU did. She had the money but she certainly did not continue to prop up the marriage and became quite willing to allow it to fall completely apart even though that was the last thing she wanted. She had let go of any expectation of successful resolution to the troubles entirely. I believe this is what finally got through to me. I could not see it until she no longer actually "needed" to be together. She wanted to be together but she no longer needed it.
Wow. That's exactly where I am right now. I want to be with him, but I've let go (or TRYING to let go) of expecting a successful resolution. We've pushed the "pause" button on the movie that is our Relationship. It's so sad. But it's the clearest action I've taken in a long time. I'm financially independent, in fact, have been the breadwinner for us, so it hasn't been an issue of control for him, more like me trying to figure out how to not get my credit involved with his money issues. Not only to not "bail him out" but to keep my credit record clean. Let his consequences be his own.

And, yes, getting it and the practice are sooooooo vastly different. Theoretical and applied science.

There have been some ways in which we have naturally fallen into our distinct strengths, which is what I think I hear you saying, Tammy, about you and Gary. For instance, he is much better at playing with the kids (his daughter and mine) while I am better at the schedules (eating, bedtime, etc). Together, we create a nice balance...he can take the rambunxious behavior, be totally playful and rowdy with them but *never* keeps them on a schedule. I'm good with that stuff, but not as playful. So in that regard, we have a value for each other's skills, and have "departmentalized."

But as you say
Quote:
The hardest part of the "detachment" thing would be to aviod rescueing some one who is irresponsible???
and I have been pulled to do that in many situations. It's that inability to "detach" within the situation that has led me to detach from the relationship.

Luckily, we've always been really good at talking to each other, so I feel really comfortable being part of his life in a compassionate listening kind of way, but I've made a boundary around any romantic interactions. I have to work really hard to be clear with MYSELF about those boundaries.

So we'll see. All these experiences are teaching me, and hopefully making me a better human.
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Old 06-09-05, 04:25 PM
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I love the sounds of this! Think about it. Dream about how you want it. Cut all the grey matter you can on your boundaries and goals. You sound like you are coming clean. Talking the talk is always much easier than walking the walk.

You do understand that "trying to let go" is somewhat like being a little pregnant don't you?
Cheers!
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Old 06-27-05, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmgirl
Ian, thanks for a really thought-provoking article. This is something I'm really trying to work out for myself right now.

I'm new to these forums, a non-ADD partner of an ADD man.

Here's a question - I *get* the detaching thing (doesn't mean I don't struggle to do it!) but I'm wondering, what are some physical, practical measures folks have taken to detach. Like, one situation I'm thinking of is the checkbook, the finances...shared things in a shared household. For example, it might be much easier for me to be detached from overdraft fees in the checking account if my partner and I have separate checking accounts. I come from a cultural expectation that when you get married, your merge everything, and the thought of doing that with my man really frightens me, because there are possible outcomes that would make this whole detachment thing that much harder. So I try to imagine a different paradigm...one where there is much less merging. Is this making sense? Anyone have any practical suggestions?
I have to ditto FarmGirls question. I went to Al-Anon at the suggestion of some friends and family after my first marrige ended and learned detachment, etc. As a single father at the time, it helped me tremendously dealing with my daughter. But how do you deal with a partner or other family member who's irresponsible behavior is impacting your life negatively?

What if (in the case of a partner) you know in your heart that you never really loved this person, you're only with them because after a lifetime of building a negative self-image in a society that constantly reinforces the message that we "should" be loved to be of any value, you hooked up with the first person that seemed willing for fear of being alone?
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Old 06-28-05, 01:15 AM
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What if (in the case of a partner) you know in your heart that you never really loved this person, you're only with them because after a lifetime of building a negative self-image in a society that constantly reinforces the message that we "should" be loved to be of any value, you hooked up with the first person that seemed willing for fear of being alone?

Okay first how long have you been with this "partner" and are you living together/married, have mutual children??????

What would be your defintation of love??? Is it a commitment, decision, or an emotion??? What makes you think you never loved partner, or don't love partner now????? Is it the distructive behavior you commented on???? What have you done about negative behaviors to protect your self??? Have you tried counseling????


Quote:
But how do you deal with a partner or other family member who's irresponsible behavior is impacting your life negatively?

In a word boundaries!!!!!

The longer version: I started by defining the behavior specifically how it is affecting me negatively???? I also reviewed my personal boundaries, and found behavior denifinatly crossed the line of acceptable behavior. See there are certain behaviors I find acceptable (most personality quirks) and behavior I do not tolerate in my life (lying, stealing). Then I figured out what I was going to do to protect my personal boundary( I come up with some real unusual solutions) . In my case increase distance between me and dishonest person (after I put them in my shoes for a short time)!!!


If personal boundaries are not some thing you are familuar with then there would be the place I would start. I asked about counseling as it seems to me by the statement you made about previous marriage the suggestion of Ala-non, assistence with daughter followed by the negative behavior of current partner. It sounds as if you are in some sort of "holding pattern" in that you keep ending up with relationships that are unhealthy. Some times groups like Alon-non can help however if this is a life long pattern individual counseling may be necessary, it was in my case!!!!!! You can get rid of present partner but unless you change some thing with in YOU; unfortunitly you have a high probability of ending up in this same place with some one else.

Life is kind of like school in that when certain "lessons" are presented we either learn how we our selves contributed to our present "situation" or the lesson will be repaeted over and over and over until we either "get it" or die, which ever comes first!!!!!

I would start with self I usually do as I can not control another persons attitudes or behavior only my own, which is not only where the problem lies but where the answer emerges.

Hope this helped with out "hurting" too much!!!!
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Old 10-27-05, 12:57 AM
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wow you guys!
thank you so much, i am so glad there are people on this forum with this kind of wisdom to offer...

i think it is one of the major stages in life, when you learn to look in yourself instead of always looking outside.

i am still learning... but it most certainly rings true!
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Old 10-27-05, 01:07 AM
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wow you guys!
thank you so much, i am so glad there are people on this forum with this kind of wisdom to offer...
Yes, and there's even Canadian content.
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Old 10-27-05, 12:31 PM
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Can/con is at the heart of everything isn't it? heheh
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Old 10-29-05, 02:18 AM
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whoop!

CANADA ROCKS.

word.


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Old 11-09-05, 11:45 AM
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Detachment is scary because it can mean that we might lose the relationship if we stop taking care of things the other person should be responsible for.

Reading about co-dependency has made me realize that I was trying to control people in my life because I thought I had to in order to 'earn' or 'keep' or even 'be worthy' of the relationship. I had to learn to detach from outcomes, and to focus on my self, and my responsibility to myself and my own personal growth. And I had to take the risk that once I stopped managing things for someone else, they might not need me anymore and not want me enough to stay with me.

By control, I not only had to stop doing things for that person, but I had to stop trying to figure out what I needed to do, how I needed to behave, in order to get whatever outcome I wanted. I wouldn't bring up things that needed discussing because I didn't want an arguement. I wouldn't do things I wanted to do because the other person might think I was being selfish. I would weigh my words, and agonize about actions because I desperately needed to know, and have control over, the outcome, or the response from the other person.

In my case, it came from having a crazy mother who was unpredictable in her behavior and responses to me. So I was always trying to figure out her mood, and what I needed to do to avoid her wrath. It was a survival strategy that became a bad habit; not knowing better, I thought that one needed to do this in all relationships. It was what I had to do to take care of myself. Eventually I didn't know who my 'self' was, what my feelings really were, or what my legitimate needs were.

Detachment is so liberating! Detaching with love allows me to focus on the love I feel, not on trying to figure out what the other person feels.
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Old 11-09-05, 02:05 PM
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Well said Joyous. Every time I read or hear another persons reiteration, I have the merit of these principles burned into my soul.
Thanks. Ian
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Old 11-30-05, 11:43 PM
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Ian,

It has been a long time but I recall you assisting me with a few issues of my own with great insight and even articles that helped.

Now, I say... WOW!

I was sincerely about to open a thread in this forum about what I may be doing wrong in my relationship with my boyfriend. He is someone I hold so dear to me and I want to help have a great life with. When I am away from him for a day or two I almost feel hopeless and lost after being around him for days at a time. I know it is good to be alone and I do enjoy my time, but can't seem to shake the feeling of how much I love being around him.

It is just a feeling and I do think this post was an answer for many of my questions. He is being loving to himself and me by detaching and walking away for more than a day or two at a time after a week passes or so of us being together day in and day out. I see that more now and I am now finding it easy to comprehend and accept with your article.

I have to say, THANK YOU! This made more of a difference than you think.

I just hope I can keep it always in mind to improve my relationship with my boyfriend and best friend always.

Sincerely, Charisma.
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Old 11-30-05, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyous56
Detachment is scary because it can mean that we might lose the relationship if we stop taking care of things the other person should be responsible for.

Reading about co-dependency has made me realize that I was trying to control people in my life because I thought I had to in order to 'earn' or 'keep' or even 'be worthy' of the relationship. I had to learn to detach from outcomes, and to focus on my self, and my responsibility to myself and my own personal growth. And I had to take the risk that once I stopped managing things for someone else, they might not need me anymore and not want me enough to stay with me.

By control, I not only had to stop doing things for that person, but I had to stop trying to figure out what I needed to do, how I needed to behave, in order to get whatever outcome I wanted. I wouldn't bring up things that needed discussing because I didn't want an arguement. I wouldn't do things I wanted to do because the other person might think I was being selfish. I would weigh my words, and agonize about actions because I desperately needed to know, and have control over, the outcome, or the response from the other person.

In my case, it came from having a crazy mother who was unpredictable in her behavior and responses to me. So I was always trying to figure out her mood, and what I needed to do to avoid her wrath. It was a survival strategy that became a bad habit; not knowing better, I thought that one needed to do this in all relationships. It was what I had to do to take care of myself. Eventually I didn't know who my 'self' was, what my feelings really were, or what my legitimate needs were.

Detachment is so liberating! Detaching with love allows me to focus on the love I feel, not on trying to figure out what the other person feels.
The wierdest, yet most refreshing, part about all that you stated here is that this is something I feel now with my parnter in life (as I call him). It is good to know I can try and know ... try to really feel that things wont fall apart and I wont loose him. Especially if he truly wants me. Which he has stated many times.
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Old 12-01-05, 01:19 AM
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Thank-you for saying such kind things, but please remember that they are not my words of wisdom. I'm simply passing on to you what was handed to me freely. It saved me from certain death at the hands of all kinds of abuse. The struggle isn't over, but my tool kit is much more familiar to me and much more powerful than it was prior to learning some of this stuff.

The crunch I continue to feel is that for everything my heart seems to think it needs, none of it is available completely until I no longer need it. If I'm truly and freely standing on my own, I can completely have those things closest to my heart. It's nuts, but I strive to accept it.
Practise, practise, practise
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