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  #31  
Old 12-01-05, 01:45 AM
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Practise, practise, practise
and... Patience, patience, patience... On my part anyway. I can completely get that last line about standing alone. I really hope to learn much from this today and to keep up the "practise".
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  #32  
Old 12-17-05, 04:27 AM
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Right on the money. Both the patience and that it's a personal practise of my own helps in removing blame, from running rampant. My 12 year old is just like me in scary ways.

I'm practising now in hopes of having more to offer her later, if you catch the drift. I think I can to a certain extent, bank the wisom and use it later.

I have to attend to it all the time. If it doesn't occur in my mind several times a day as a reminder, I'm lost.
Cheers! ian
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  #33  
Old 03-14-06, 01:21 AM
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detaching is not like disengaging

Wikipedia is taking over my life. I am so grateful for the resources of the Internet.

I'm having a discussion elsewhere about detachment and ended up finding some more solid information. I was surprised that the term was misleading to some. It's been mistaken for something more closely related to disengaging, which is not the same thing at all.

The link to emotional detaching at Wikipedia was very clear about the terms. I use it almost exclusively in relation to the second sense.

In the second sense, it is a type of mental assertiveness that allows people to maintain their boundaries and psychic integrity when faced with the emotional demands of another person or group of persons.

Second sense: mental assertiveness

Emotional detachment in the second sense above is a positive and deliberate mental attitude which avoids engaging the emotions of others. It is often applied to relatives and associates of people who are in some way emotionally overly demanding. A simple example might be a person who trains themselves to ignore the "pleading" food requests of a dieting spouse. A more widespread example could be the indifference parents develop towards their children's begging.

A more extreme form of this has been called "tough love," meaning letting someone go through a painful life experience without interference for the sake of its greater educational value. This can be an excruciating experience for loved ones, who must avoid the urge to step in and rescue the person from that pain (but thereby interfere with the loved one having a much-needed growing experience).

This detachment does not mean avoiding the feeling of empathy; it is actually more of an awareness of empathetic feelings that allows the person space needed to rationally choose whether or not to engage or be overwhelmed by such feelings.


Referred at this Wikipedia entry is a link for developing detachment that I found really solid too. It's titled Tools for handling control issues.

Content:

One thing led to another... (Hey look! String!) and I came across this related entry.


Emotional contagion From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
Emotional contagion is the tendency to express and feel emotions that are similar to and influenced by those of others. Emotional contagion may be involved in crowd behaviors, like collective fear, rage, or moral panic, but also emotional interactions in smaller groups such as negotiation, teaching and persuasion contexts. It is also the phenomenon when a person (especially a child) appears distressed because another person is distressed, or happy because they are happy.

To date, most clinical research has focused on the effects on non-verbal (and often non-emotional) displays, and relatively less has been studied about the impact of contagion effects on emotional feelings. Emotional contagion and empathy may be related, but the nature of such a connection has not to date been explored either.

The concept of insulating oneself from emotional contagion is called emotional detachment.


I still feel very strongly that this is an important element in my personal development. It spans the universe in it's impact on how I relate to every important element in my life. I could never have too much from this skill set.

So much of this gets to the heart of how we might be manipulated or how we may do the manipulation consciously or not. If I could stand to enquire more deeply, this would feed many avenues of interest for me.
Cheers! Ian.
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  #34  
Old 01-04-07, 01:17 AM
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I have truely been inspired by your post and I know very closely how hard it can be to detach yourself...I am sure like many here we strive everyday to keep ourselves from self distruction. Thank you so much for this little bit of inspiration.
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  #35  
Old 01-04-07, 01:28 AM
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You are very welcome. I'm just passing it forward.

I was reflecting today on the ramifications of this attitude and what kind of impact it might have on larger social conflicts. Every form or refuge has it's price though. Strength to you.
Peace.
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  #36  
Old 08-06-07, 03:03 AM
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I am becoming disillusioned with love. I thought I was in love, but screwed it up by cheating. I was off my meds. I just can't seem to feel love anymore. This is concerning me. When I would fall in love... I was off my meds. Now that I am on them... I just don't feel love. This puts me in a blue funk. I guess I just haven't met the right person? I do believe in love, I just wish I could keep the next person... without thinking selfishly.
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  #37  
Old 08-08-07, 10:13 AM
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It would be interesting to hear what your significant other might have to say about the original article. You too for that matter.

I used to be confused about the meaning romantic love. Love for me now is a verb. It's something I do. It's an action that I take in response to how I feel. In that way I'll never be disillusioned about it. It's a powerful tool for healing of all sorts, but it's a slippery devil if I let myself believe it's something I have and keep. It always has a habit of back firing on me if I hang onto it!

I feel love every time I extend myself in empathy to others. The universe is rife with the stuff, but I didn't learn this early in life and nearly died from lacking it more than once via a long string of self loathing abuses.

Cultivating a love with another is like tending any living thing to grow and thrive. I don't buy the culturally popular notion of romantic love. I see it as a distraction from the core things that provide me with meaning in my life and that keeps me safer from the blue funks. Those actions of compassion, empathy, and generosity of spirit, all of which I came into this world woefully deficient in all beat the daylights out of whatever I've experienced as romantic love.

Do you find that detaching with love might be something that would help you forgive yourself for your mistakes?
Ian
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  #38  
Old 08-08-07, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian
Do you find that detaching with love might be something that would help you forgive yourself for your mistakes?
Ian
That's an interesting concept. Only time will tell. I will have to learn for my past romantic experiences. I think I am at the best place in my life. All my other SOs have been there when I was off my meds and I think I scared them away. Of course, the one I fell for... I had to be stupid withand cheat. She is happy from her last email (sent around February) and I am happy for her. I just miss a lot from our conversations.
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  #39  
Old 09-18-07, 09:29 PM
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Loving detachment. Is that what they call it?

I am not married or in a close relationship (haven't been for years), so I have to seek out people to help. I try to keep it narrowed down to volunteering at a nonprofit music club -- but more often than I would like to admit, I pick random and non random people to "help". I do this with my money and my time.

Last January, I helped out an underprivileged visual artist to get his work in front of more people... I drove him around, I bought art supplies for him, lunch and dinner, photographed his work, made calls, I am getting ill thinking about it.

I was between freelance assignments and should have been prospecting; but instead...

Most recently a woman I dated 12 years ago came into town, we went out a few times, her mother evicted her (think sherifs in the night).

She was homeless with no money and lots of problems, Perfect!
I was about to leave the house with a crate of clothes, toiletries, books, tea. A light went off in my head; Could this be over-helping? I called a friend who asked me "what's in it for me?"

I didn't want her as girl friend, a wife, I didn't have a good answer and terminated the rescue mission.

It was completely contrary to everything I know and thought I was taught.

She probably went through hell, but at least it wasn't my hell.

Loving detachment. Now I have a name for it.
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  #40  
Old 09-19-07, 12:11 AM
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In Buddhist philosophy, I think they mention being a "detached observer".

Sounds like CoA (Codependency Anonymous) talk.
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Old 09-19-07, 12:17 AM
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I like this sub-link of your link, Ian.


The "Need To Fix"
http://www.coping.org/control/fixing.htm

I think people can [pathologically] need to help others for a variety of reasons.

Some needs are control issues. (But when we overhelp, we take away the OTHER persons's "power" over their own lives and essentially infantalize them.)

Some needs to help fix others may arise b/c we weren't helped ourselves, earlier in life, when WE needed it. (Search for mastery & a re-do.)

The main issue, I am coming to realize is this: "Are we meeting their need, or our are we perhaps own hidden need here? Whose emotional needs are being met here?"

e.g. if i am doing/saying/helping b/c of my own "need", then something's gotta change. (The focus is off the Main Person.)
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  #42  
Old 09-19-07, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whut?
Loving detachment. Is that what they call it?

I am not married or in a close relationship (haven't been for years), so I have to seek out people to help. I try to keep it narrowed down to volunteering at a nonprofit music club -- but more often than I would like to admit, I pick random and non random people to "help". I do this with my money and my time.

Last January, I helped out an underprivileged visual artist to get his work in front of more people... I drove him around, I bought art supplies for him, lunch and dinner, photographed his work, made calls, I am getting ill thinking about it.

I was between freelance assignments and should have been prospecting; but instead...

Most recently a woman I dated 12 years ago came into town, we went out a few times, her mother evicted her (think sherifs in the night).

She was homeless with no money and lots of problems, Perfect!
I was about to leave the house with a crate of clothes, toiletries, books, tea. A light went off in my head; Could this be over-helping? I called a friend who asked me "what's in it for me?"

I didn't want her as girl friend, a wife, I didn't have a good answer and terminated the rescue mission.

It was completely contrary to everything I know and thought I was taught.

She probably went through hell, but at least it wasn't my hell.

Loving detachment. Now I have a name for it.
Sounds like you've got the detaching thing down pat. I'm more focused on the love part.
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  #43  
Old 09-19-07, 11:00 AM
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bingo

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueensU_girl
I like this sub-link of your link, Ian.


The "Need To Fix"
http://www.coping.org/control/fixing.htm

I think people can [pathologically] need to help others for a variety of reasons.

Some needs are control issues. (But when we overhelp, we take away the OTHER persons's "power" over their own lives and essentially infantalize them.)

Some needs to help fix others may arise b/c we weren't helped ourselves, earlier in life, when WE needed it. (Search for mastery & a re-do.)

The main issue, I am coming to realize is this: "Are we meeting their need, or our are we perhaps own hidden need here? Whose emotional needs are being met here?"

e.g. if i am doing/saying/helping b/c of my own "need", then something's gotta change. (The focus is off the Main Person.)
It's the perfect platform for my practise with empathy. I think you've hit the nail on the head so to speak. I thought, maybe erroneously that your point was self evident. I'm often guilty of taking shortcuts in my writing and appreciate you pointing this out clearly.

I agree that if the focus remains on the detached persons needs the resulting positive energy is mostly lost to the others in need. At least that's been my experience. My skills in empathy have not been at the top of the class, but these ideas of detaching with love has freed me and opened up channels to a love action of substance.

I think your point about "self service" in helping is much more often the case than a detached love. Learning the difference was what made this learning so potent for me. The older I get the more powerful a force it's becoming.
Thanks for the link.
Ian running, running, running.
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  #44  
Old 01-23-08, 11:09 AM
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Re: Detaching With Love

that was a great article
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
My wife taught me a lot about this stuff by her fine example.

When I was much more toxic to relationships than I am now, she learnt how to get free of my destructive ways without losing sight of her love for me or her ability to care for herself.

I was very fortunate to have her example to follow. This concept has been very effective in helping to define what is mine and what is not mine during emotionally challenging times.
Ian.


http://www.anonymityone.com/faq46.htm
Detaching With Love

How Detaching Can Be Loving For All

By Wayland Myers, Ph.D
"Detachment is a means whereby we allow others the opportunity to learn how to care for themselves better." This statement helped me make a quantum leap in my understanding of how detaching from others could be loving. Last month, I shared that I heard this from a family program counselor. Hearing her left me amazed and disoriented. For the first time, I began realizing that abstaining from my attempts to protect or manage others could be a gift to them.

That was nine year ago. Today I have a fuller definition of loving detachment. Currently, I consider myself lovingly detached when I am willing and able to compassionately allow others to be different from me, to be self-directed, and to be responsible for taking care of themselves. Using this definition, I have come to realize that detachment is loving for everyone involved. In this article I will share my beliefs about four ways that detachment is loving for those I care about, and four ways that it is loving for me.

How detachment is loving others

1. Those I care for might learn to look within, and trust themselves for self-direction, including when and how to ask for help.

If I refrain from trying to manage their problematic situation, the people, I care about may learn something about thinking for themselves, problem solving, and when and how to ask for help. They might learn to better listen to their feelings and intuitions, to heed those little voices we all wish we listened-to more. They might learn to better recognize when they want help and how to request it in ways that leave them feeling good rather than embarrassed or ashamed. In short, letting them manage their own affairs gives them the opportunity to draw on their own inner resources, instead of mine, and from this direct experience of their abilities, no matter how groping or uncertain, they can build competence and may thereby increase their confidence. I believe this is the No. I and most natural avenue leading to increased self-esteem.

2. They might learn more about cause and effect.

My not intervening allows others to have an uninterrupted experience of the cause and effect relationship between their actions and the natural consequences of those actions. In this way, they have a direct encounter with their personal power to contribute to their own pleasure or pain. Allowing people to have appropriate sized, real problems, and real responsibility for working out their solutions, seem to greatly facilitate this learning.

3. They might experience the motivation to continue on or change.

Pleasurable and painful experiences often provide us the motivation to repeat what brought satisfaction and change what didn't. We all use this kind of emotional energy to move us forward in life. These motivating energies arise naturally from within and feel much better to respond to than the attempts by others to motivate us through guilt, fear and other forms of coercion.

4. Self discovery and enjoyment might occur. If I grant others the freedom to think, feel, value, perceive, etc. as they wish, and they relax because they feel respected and safe, they might discover many new things about themselves. They might discover what they really like, feel or think. They might have moments of creative insight that inspire, excite and encourage them. They might invent new, more satisfying dreams for their lives than ever would have appeared under the pressure of my controlling presence.

Whenever I find myself struggling with the impulse to step in and begin trying to manage another life, or solve his or her problems, I find it helpful to review the four points just presented. They strongly motivate me to remain lovingly detached.

Now, how about the ways loving detachment benefits me?

How detachment is loving for me

1. I am relieved of the strain of attempting the impossible.

By carefully reviewing my experiences of trying to control other people's physical behavior, sobriety, health, learning, emotions and opinions, I have come to one conclusion. The only thing I might be able to control is a person's physical behavior that requires that I possess enough physical strength and am willing to use it. If I accept my powerlessness to control the other things, the inner lives and wills of others, then I relieve myself of the stress and strain of attempting the impossible. This is a primary way for me to create more serenity in my life. In fact, if I practice this process deeply enough, I sometimes reach the point where I form no opinion about what another should do. This is a truly liberated and refreshing moment for us both.

2. What other people)think of me can become none of my business.

If I am powerless to control the thoughts, perceptions, values or emotions of another, then I can liberate myself by accepting that their opinions of me are none of my business. Accepting this as fact, I not only free myself, but the other person as well, because I cease my attempts to control their inner workings.

3. My attention and energy are freed to focus on improving my own life.

I have plenty of problem areas in my own life. Obsessing about another life can help me avoid the pain within mine. But the time and energy I spend obsessing about another life I don't spend on mine, and if I do this enough, my life stays at its current level of unmanageability or gets worse. Loving detachment gives me the opportunity to invest my energies in my life.

4. I can express my love or caring in ways that bring me joy and satisfaction.

When someone I care for is struggling with a problem, or feeling some kind of pain, I usually want to be supportive or helpful. But, I want to offer the kind of help that would bring me joy to offer and them joy to receive. One of the ways that I have developed a picture of what this help could look like is to recall the times when caring friends or others have offered me assistance in ways that I enjoyed. What did they do? While showing no sign that they felt responsible for solving my problems, they offered me four things:

* Their compassionate, empathic understanding of how I perceived and fell about my situation.

* Their experiences and learning from similar situations for my consideration.

* Their genuine optimism about my abilities to work through my struggles.

* Their willingness to help, on my terms, in ways that were congruent with their needs. To be offered understanding, companionship, encouragement and assistance, but not interference, is the most satisfying help I have known. Offering this to others increases both the joys in my life and my self-esteem.

Looking at the eight ways that I see detachment as being loving, I conclude that the most basic reason for practicing it is to provide an opportunity for people's lives to be improved. The lives of those I love may be improved because I respect their powers of self-care enough to let them have a chance to reap the potential benefits of struggling, learning and succeeding on their own. My life is improved because I avoid unnecessary distress, retain energy I might have wasted, and offer caring and support in ways that bring me joy. In these ways loving detachment plays a powerful and rewarding role in helping me to both live and let live.
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Old 02-01-08, 10:49 AM
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Re: Detaching With Love

Dixiepeep: Insightful.

Respect and help others as you would wish to be respected and helped. If you need to detach, do so with compassion.

Thanks.
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