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Old 05-06-15, 01:26 AM
CuppieTea CuppieTea is offline
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Daytime wetting

Hey,

My son will be 6 in a few weeks, and this is now the 2nd day in a row he has wet himself at school..
He's been completely toilet trained since he was 3 and has never had an issue with toileting before..

He has had very odd behaviour the following few weeks, more crying than usual, drawing on walls, very defiant (more so than usual), spitting on the floor. Just really odd.. Hes not been in contact with anyone else besides me and his school peers so I'm thinking something has happened at school..

Any ideas how I can find out whats going on without seeming like hes being interrogated for murder?

Thanks
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Old 05-06-15, 01:30 AM
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Re: Daytime wetting

ice cream date? Something I would have responded to!
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Old 05-06-15, 12:57 PM
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Re: Daytime wetting

I've found with my grandkids (stay at home gramma here) that starting out
with telling something about myself opens the door to them talking about
something that happened to them.
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Old 05-06-15, 01:30 PM
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Re: Daytime wetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppieTea View Post
Hey,

My son will be 6 in a few weeks, and this is now the 2nd day in a row he has wet himself at school..
He's been completely toilet trained since he was 3 and has never had an issue with toileting before..

He has had very odd behaviour the following few weeks, more crying than usual, drawing on walls, very defiant (more so than usual), spitting on the floor. Just really odd.. Hes not been in contact with anyone else besides me and his school peers so I'm thinking something has happened at school..

Any ideas how I can find out whats going on without seeming like hes being interrogated for murder?

Thanks
Note: I homeschool my daughter and did so since 1st grade, after a horrid Kindergarten experience where I feel she was turned into the village idjit in that school! The teacher constantly told me she had zero time to attend to my child's needs due to how large her class was, and she didn't have an official aid, hired officially, who could legally help in any way except tieing shoelaces.

My daughter had a terrible time in Kindergarten with getting TONS of pressure from the Kindergarten teacher when my daughter was (in retrospect) just a bit behind in her maturity level for the Kindergarten experience as it is today.

She was being pressured to pay attention for the first time to some real academic teaching. I was so surprised at how different Kindergarten is today! They teach a LOT of stuff I would assume is more 1st grade, because they are proud of being a school with excellent ratings in the public school. My daughter was required to attend different classrooms in Kindergarten, at least a couple of days of the week. They would go to so and so's class for the social studies component, I think it was. And also for computer lab.

My daughter had a terrible time with transitions between activities, and the teacher was constantly complaining to me that my daughter was crawling around on the floor and crying, or else just ignoring all the lessons and playing independently and defying the teachers requests to come sit with everyone. YET, they would check out her knowledge at times and they had to admit she seemed to be paying attention on some level, as when you would ask her what she heard, she would repeat what the teacher was saying basically. They assumed she was an auditory learner, not a visual learner.

But the weird thing is that my daughter is wonderfully oriented towards images and art. She does see things in her mind's eye. She can do some math in her head even at an early age for it, 3rd grade. She is incredibly verbal NOW, but I usually am fighting a tendency in her to not verbalize. She will act at times like she did answer, but she didn't. So you know the knowledge is there in her head, but she sometimes struggles to get it out. It's a moderate effort on her part to communicate clearly the answer the FIRST time.

If I give her a slight break on the time, to think and answer, she is mastering 100 percent of her third grade material! If I had time pressured her all through this, then her grades would probably be more of a "C" rather than an "A" if this makes sense. So I believe that for her, and probably for other ADHD children, she does better when she's not time pressured and given just a slight bit more time to process in and out, I suppose.

I tend to view her as a late bloomer, since the ADHD child is actually very smart but can be a little bit slower to develop mentally, from what I hear (there's ton of information online about this). I experienced this when I was growing up, where I struggled with things on a social level and also with my frustration levels and ability to think to communicate.

It was easier to think for my own burdgeoning tendency to be "all in my head" most of the time, with a constantly running inner narrator or voice that was thinking about everything, commenting on everything, trying to sort everything into a proper understanding (in the areas of my greatest confusion), etc. My emotional maturity was always feeling a bit regressive since I didn't understand why I got so emotional and how I experienced inability to get myself across well to my peers or the teachers.

My best guess from his behavior is that he's experiencing for the first time the pressures socially and how the classroom experience is feeding into his struggles to be understood, to fit in, have fun balanced with paying attention to school.

My friends daughter was spitting like that and it turned out that things were happening at school such as, the kids were standing around her and calling her names, and she was spitting. Or she would stand in a muddy puddle or something and stamp her feet and get all dirty. It was on the playground that this stuff was mainly happening, so it was related to her issues with peers and playtime. It can be hard to find out what's going on, but I know that in the case of my friend's daughter, finally an adult on the playground saw what was occuring and shared that info with her. The school eventually had her take a proper evaluation and they said she had asperger's syndrome and sensory integration disorder (actually the latter diagnosis came first). There are a lot of crossovers between aspergers and ADHD, I believe, with similar signs and symptoms. But I think it takes a real expert to see that difference. I feel they are so similar and maybe only different in how the person relates to people (just a guess).

Your intuition can be right. The sad thing is that I think these behaviors happen so much these days that it's almost kind of normal and hard to stop.

In my daughter's classroom experience, I was only able to recognize towards the end of the year what was occuring, since the teacher was way frustratred with my daughter's behavior and was telling the other children in the room things like:

"If you see Sally acting bad, please tell her what to do! She needs help!" (then the whole classroom was effectively the boss of my daughter, and she told me that the kids were kind of bossing her around, or they would just start to tell her that she's bad and blah blah blah. Because I think the really young school age kids tend to see things in very black and white terms, and any kid who is behaving regressively (like crying or running around like a baby in the room) is seen THE PROBLEM and really naughty because he/she doesn't listen to the teacher.

Also the teacher was very frustrated with her behavior by the mid-year mark and started to refer to her as ODD, despite the fact there was no testing (which I was concerned about her wearing a label that was so negative, without any testing).

Ultimately the teacher summed it up when she said over and over again that she had no time for my daughter!

It turns out my daughter needs about twice as much time to do all her work, JUST LIKE ME. It takes me 2 or 3 times as long to accomplish anything, even washing the dishes (as compared to a normal person). My perception of time is horrible and it takes me longer to feel organized mentally to progress through work.

Everyone is different though. I like to think of children as a unique signature of the universe. It's possible the reasons he is doing this is very different, but I would like to think also that children just don't have the language and communication skills yet to understand it themselves, let alone tell us! Especially if the child has ADHD and their particular strengths may be in areas other than language, although they certainly will probably be very competant at it. But the development may come a bit later.

One thing I had always done is, when my daughter is acting like that (reluctant to say the words and communicate her thoughts), I will just name it for her by saying, "Use your words, Sally". She sometimes gets frustrated and will take time, like lowering her eyes and having a frustrated expression on her face. Sometimes she will even get a little upset and cry, but I just try to be unreactive to her emotion and repeat that she should attempt to verbalize it or I won't understand.

You know how there is so much advice these days to not explain to your kids why you want them to do something, but just demand obedience? THis doesn't work with ADHD kids! I am certain of it! I think what you must do more and more is to explain, in the language your child can understand, how you feel about them in the moment while you are disciplining or pressuring (even gentle pressure) to do something. This might sound nuts, but it's more of a habit I have to always attempt to be willing to explain to HER because I understand more as an adult than she does as a kid.

SO I guess I am realizing that I have a habit of making the effort to explain to her why I want something, and I make an effort to soothe her tears (as she OFTEN, almost habitually reacts emotionally WHILE trying to think), and reassure her that I am not mad at her. I am not even frustrated. I am just being persistent in the moment to help her see or understand, and then act.

It's more effort on my part, but it helps and I have found that when I can get her thinking of the "understanding" part, it helps to soothe back the emotional reactivity.

My mom in particular never explained anything to me. I see now how when I do speak the truth in words more to my daughter by naming emotions, naming how I'm reacting to her positively ,and encouraging her to sort her thoughts and verbalize more... I think it has helped.

My point is that I realized that my daughter gets these things fairly easy: The main points of a lesson, and the informational teaching of the lesson.
WHat she struggles with majorly is understanding that I am not angry with her or frustrated, when I am teaching her (she tends to interpret any pressure as negativity. Like she literally takes the wrong message from a correction or a pressure to pay attention).
She also struggles with understanding how to reply, or how to easily reply and communicate her understanding (which is often EXCELLENT and she actually understands the lesson faster than the lesson seems to be geared towards teaching her! As in the lesson always does way more explaining than she needs, and it has too many problems. SO I am skipping all the odd number problems now. since she doesn't need that much practice. She gets it faster!)

I think a lot of the child behavioral advice is not oriented towards ADHD children, let alone the parent who also may have ADHD (such as myself).

I'm sorry I'm majorly rambling! I feel hopeful so much that I can understand my daughter more now. I hope you and your son bond more through these early difficulties and he can learn to trust you as a guide for even his early thinking at this age. It's not bad to assist your child, almost like a crutch for a sprained ankle. I think it's been proven that ADHD children experience less academic problems when their parents are heavily involved in their education at the earliest ages at least.

The classroom environment is so bad for ADHD kids to learn to concentrate, IMO! I remember it being chaos in the public schools! When you consider that ADHD is actually a neurological issue and is protected by law that a person should have access to an appropriate education for them, and to have accomodations for their disability.... then how can they ever do this fairly for the ADHD kid? I think not. The schools could not afford to create private study chambers with soundproof walls, and an assistant for even every 5 kids.

One thing I kept in mind during that horrific Kindergarten grade is NOT required by law. It was the old pre-school type of idea, in the beginning. But then, pre-K was invented to get the kids into school earlier, for what purposes I don't know but probably because mothers want to go back to work, and the schools feel that if children start earlier, they can be trained to behave better in Kindergarten?

During the entire Kindergarten experience, if you asked her if she had friends, she said everyone was her friend, including kids who would start yelling at her if she even approached her on the playground, to tell her to stay away, like she was some monster.

That was my reaction as a mother at the time. It really upset me that she had such a rough time of it, both from the teacher and the other kids, in Kindergarten. I know the pressure was very real because despite the fact my daughter started to make progress by the mid-point of the school year, she was then pressured with NEW pressures, to stop playing with her only friend in class. It turned out that the little girl's mother was a volunteer in the room, and she was not wanting my daughter to play with her daughter. I had witnesses that she was rude in rebuffing my daughter's attempts many times to ask for a playdate with her kid! Weird situation that those school administrators are allowing in that school, to allow a parent to serve as an aid in the very same room as their kid is in!!!!

If your son is more of a visual thinker (and I don't know how you tell except that he may be very oriented towards drawing and doodling already), then ask him to doodle about school and see what he comes up with. My daughter thinks in pictures, which is shown by the amazing way she draws. From an early age, she liked to draw what she is seeing! I thought it was amazing to see a 3 year old draw a picture of the bathroom she uses, without any prompt from me to do that. She drew everything including the toilet. lol! she tried to get the perspective right too. She often draws me pictures to tell me what she wants me to to do, almost like she sees it as motivating in some way. She draws diagrams and also pretend posters, that show items for sale for example. She is amazing. If your son is also similary showing some artistic tendencies, and he draws things that actually exist, or he includes unusually well thought out details.... maybe try to get him drawing to show you what Kindergarten is like for him?

Last edited by icarusinflames; 05-06-15 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 05-06-15, 03:03 PM
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Re: Daytime wetting

The behaviors you mentioned are concerning. I'm not a professional or expert but if it were me I would consult his doctor.
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Old 05-06-15, 10:23 PM
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Re: Daytime wetting

has there been any significant change in his diet? Drinking more milk? Eating a lot of fruit, especially fruits with a high salicylate content?
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Old 05-07-15, 07:25 AM
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Re: Daytime wetting

I remember having problems when I was around the age. For me it was sometimes a conscious choice to wet rather than raise my hand and ask to go to the toilet (too shy to ask). Dunno why I thought it was better to sneak off on the corner and pee.

The other stuff: sounds like kdg has been a rough transition. Sometimes the teacher jus isn't a good match for the kid. Sometimes the other kids are mean. Is your kid the type of kid who can keep it together until they get to their safe space? I used to do that. School was always taken aback because I was never a behavior problem there, just at home where I could let down my guard.

I know it's hard to get info out of a 6 year old, but try to ask about teachers and students. See if there's anything that's bugging him.
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Old 05-07-15, 09:16 AM
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Re: Daytime wetting

Honestly, it sounds like he has an anxiety disorder and feels stressed out. Oftentimes regressing in bathroom habits is an indicator of a child's inability to handle stress.
When younger kids have stress they don't know how ti manage it. They feel like if they tell anyone, the wont be heard. Its important to see a doctor ASAP, a psyche doctor is best. He needs therapy to learn some coping skills and maybe meds. Do not ignore it or down play it. I going through a similar situation with my daughter now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppieTea View Post
Hey,

My son will be 6 in a few weeks, and this is now the 2nd day in a row he has wet himself at school..
He's been completely toilet trained since he was 3 and has never had an issue with toileting before..

He has had very odd behaviour the following few weeks, more crying than usual, drawing on walls, very defiant (more so than usual), spitting on the floor. Just really odd.. Hes not been in contact with anyone else besides me and his school peers so I'm thinking something has happened at school..

Any ideas how I can find out whats going on without seeming like hes being interrogated for murder?

Thanks
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Old 05-22-15, 11:49 AM
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Re: Daytime wetting

Quote:
Originally Posted by CuppieTea View Post
Hey,

My son will be 6 in a few weeks, and this is now the 2nd day in a row he has wet himself at school..
He's been completely toilet trained since he was 3 and has never had an issue with toileting before..

He has had very odd behaviour the following few weeks, more crying than usual, drawing on walls, very defiant (more so than usual), spitting on the floor. Just really odd.. Hes not been in contact with anyone else besides me and his school peers so I'm thinking something has happened at school..

Any ideas how I can find out whats going on without seeming like hes being interrogated for murder?

Thanks
I had this when I was 6. I had a lot of social anxiety as a kid which ultimately led to more **** from other kids. Kids can be kinda cruel about this stuff and it didnt take long for the entire class to be chanting "pee pants" for what felt like forever.

The best thing you can do is probably just not make him feel bad about it or embarrassed, because what I remember got to me the most wasn't my peers it was the adults that made me feel like **** about it. They pretty much acted like I did it to ruin their day or something, when my day was pretty much more clearly ruined.

I think my general thoughts afterward were-

"Lady I just ****** myself and got called pee pants for an hour and a half, and you really think this was all a ploy to get attention and ruin your day?..whatever I can't deal with this **** now, if you need me ill be drawing on the walls"
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Old 05-25-15, 05:13 AM
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Re: Daytime wetting

Yeah anxiety, I did this stuff. And I had great teachers. Just average parents.
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