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Old 02-20-16, 10:13 AM
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Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

From the non Adhd sticky:-
Quote:
This forum is for Spouses, Partners, and Significant others of those with AD/HD. Please feel free to ask questions, offer support and vent your frustrations.
Maybe someone else can help me understand this: asking questions and for advice is encouraged...and non-adhd partners are encouraged to offer support and vent right?

Quote:
While it's sometimes great for a non-ADD person to get the point of view of an ADDer, please remember this forum is for support of the non-ADD partner.
So does this mean that if we do not support the non-adhd partners view, then we shouldnt participate?
Because I have no issues with supporting an non-adhd partner's needs, questions,wants, and trying to offer encouragement. But I cant just co-sign someone's disparaging, condescending and hurtful posts under the guise of "helping another non-adhd partner' avoid a life of desperation. Maybe Im slow or something. Can anybody weigh in?


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Old 02-20-16, 01:37 PM
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Re: Advice for non-ADHD partners

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
From the non Adhd sticky:-
Maybe someone else can help me understand this: asking questions and for advice is encouraged...and non-adhd partners are encouraged to offer support and vent right?


So does this mean that if we do not support the non-adhd partners view, then we shouldnt participate?
Because I have no issues with supporting an non-adhd partner's needs, questions,wants, and trying to offer encouragement. But I cant just co-sign someone's disparaging, condescending and hurtful posts under the guise of "helping another non-adhd partner' avoid a life of desperation. Maybe Im slow or something. Can anybody weigh in?


[
I don't think it means that you have to agree with everything they say. It probably just means try and look at the situation from their point of view (and after doing that you might still disagree and that is fine) and if you can't then don't participate.
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  #3  
Old 02-20-16, 11:34 PM
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Re: Advice for non-ADHD partners

I think there is an easy answer to this apparently difficult problem.

Yes, it's a support forum. But it's a forum of support for every person, not for support of every opinion. It would be ridiculous in the extreme to expect everyone here to bow out of every discussion in which they disagreed with someone else's opinion. The fact that "person X" is entitled to his opinion also means that "person Y" is equally entitled to disagree.

If anyone expects their opinions to never be challenged or disagreed with, then such a person needs to stop trying to interact with others, period.

It is unsupportive of everyone, to allow a frankly mistaken opinion to stand. It goes against the principle of a support forum to expect deference to be given to all types of comments.
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Old 02-21-16, 01:29 AM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

I like to think I treat everyone the same. I just try and call it as I see it, and try and be kind.

Sometimes my 'kindness' is thin, but I do try. Hell, to be fair, when my kindness is thin it's usually to someone having trouble with kindness themselves.
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Old 02-21-16, 03:36 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

I understand the need, and value of, a non-adhd partner forum.

However, there is a difference in someone "venting", and someone insulting and hurting an entire group of people with a certain disability.

You can vent your feelings without being nasty and mean. Nasty and mean is not something worthy of support.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-16, 06:04 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Venting is venting. Venting is often excessive when viewed "in the light of day", as it were.

I have often said rash, unfair, and just plain stupid things, when I vent.

I expect my remarks to be mercilessly cut down if I do that. Sometimes, people might look at what I've said and decide "he's probably just venting", and some might choose to refrain from commenting in that case - or not - it's up to each individual.

If venting is allowed or encouraged, then cutting down unfair and stupid remarks needs to be allowed or encouraged too, in an equal way. If I say something stupid and no one challenges it, what kind of message does that show to all those who may read in the future?
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Old 02-21-16, 08:47 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Support equals helping.

Support does not equal being nice.

Granted, being nice is better than not being nice.

But on a support forum, really helping is far more important than niceness. When I come for support, I would rather find one helpful person than a hundred nice people.
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Old 02-21-16, 08:50 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls View Post
When I come for support, I would rather find one helpful person than a hundred nice people.
Fortunately, being helpful and being nice/kind/compassionate are rarely mutually-exclusive, even when truth-telling or disagreement is involved.


I'm sorry that you expect your untrue or unwise statements to be "cut down mercilessly"; I would hope that you'd find that such statements would be corrected firmly (but mercifully) by people who are looking to help you, rather than to tear you down.

Last edited by namazu; 02-21-16 at 09:04 PM..
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  #9  
Old 02-21-16, 08:59 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Quote:
Originally Posted by namazu View Post
Fortunately, being helpful and being nice/kind/compassionate are rarely mutually-exclusive, even when truth-telling or disagreement is involved.
This is true. However, there are times when their compatibility becomes very tenuous.

It's easy - sometimes bordering on glib, depending on the situation - to say "Why won't you just be nice".
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Old 02-22-16, 01:05 AM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

*Disclaimer: My posts in this thread represent my personal views and do not necessarily represent ADDF's official position or that of any other staff member.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets
So does this mean that if we do not support the non-adhd partners view, then we shouldnt participate?
Because I have no issues with supporting an non-adhd partner's needs, questions,wants, and trying to offer encouragement. But I cant just co-sign someone's disparaging, condescending and hurtful posts under the guise of "helping another non-adhd partner' avoid a life of desperation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls
If I say something stupid and no one challenges it, what kind of message does that show to all those who may read in the future?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls View Post
It's easy - sometimes bordering on glib, depending on the situation - to say "Why won't you just be nice".
I'm not sure anyone has suggested "niceness" or "agreement" as worthwhile ends unto themselves.

I don't believe that we need to cheerfully accept statements we find to be wrong-headed or repugnant, but I also think we can go about rejecting them without being malicious or unkind or unsupportive.

There's a difference, at least to my way of thinking, between
(on the one hand)
correcting factual misinformation, providing relevant counterexamples, offering different perspectives, and explaining why statements are (or feel) inaccurate/unrepresentative/hurtful/offensive, and
(on the other hand)
slinging insults, dismissing another poster's emotions or struggles as invalid or unimportant (even if we believe them to be self-inflicted or unreasonable or off-base), and piling on out of anger or frustration or a desire for catharsis.

I agree that we have the right (and sometimes the responsibility) to challenge factual misinformation or offensive generalizations -- even in the non-ADD partner support section -- and that we can often be helpful to posters without ADHD (and/or future readers) by sharing our perspectives with the intent to educate and help.

In my opinion, if we are serious about helping people, we also have the responsibility to avoid confusing our own strongly-held opinions with verifiable facts (even if we believe that the facts support our opinions), to avoid rushing to impugn others' character, and to remain open to the possibility that we could be wrong.

In short -- we are at our best when we remember that both we and the people we disagree with are human beings who are both valuable and imperfect. (It would be lovely if the people we disagreed with did the same, in turn!)

Is it extremely challenging to do this when we judge posters to be disrespectful to ADHDers and/or when we feel personally hurt or slighted by what they've written? Yes.

Are there people out there (both with and without ADHD) who are unwilling or unable to see things from another perspective, no matter how calmly and cogently those other viewpoints are presented? Yes.

In my opinion, hounding such people about the wrongness of their views does not benefit them, it does not benefit future readers, and it does not benefit the members of this community. (I believe it does us all a disservice, actually.)

In sum:
If you can't say anything "nice" -- but you must say something -- say something constructive. (And if that doesn't work -- direct your energies elsewhere, where they'll do more good.)
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  #11  
Old 02-22-16, 02:43 AM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Someone being valuable and imperfect and having an offensively, clearly, obviously stupid opinion is an unfortunate reality from time to time. The constructive thing to do when faced with an offensively stupid opinion is to cut it down and to help replace it with something better. As far as I can see, it isn't right or possible to accept that stupid opinion and move on with the conversation. It isn't something I'm morally willing to do, in any case.

In the past, for example, I have been told in no uncertain terms "Look, your opinion about anxiety disorders is not valid". I was shown why. I learned. I understand better now. There was no way except telling me I was wrong. My opinion was not expressed in a particularly offensive way, but it certainly was wrong and uninformed.

namazu, it is not too much of a stretch here to say (and please let me make it clear that I'm talking as one member to another, not to a moderator) that I am offended that you are offended by this. It is simply not a bad thing to call out bad behaviour, and simply not a bad thing to take someone to task for a stupid and ill-considered opinion. It is part of normal discourse, and not some kind of disease or mistake.
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Old 02-22-16, 03:13 AM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls View Post
Someone being valuable and imperfect and having an offensively, clearly, obviously stupid opinion is an unfortunate reality from time to time.
I agree, though I suspect your threshold for judging something to be "an offensively, clearly, obviously stupid opinion" is far lower than mine, and your confidence in your own rectitude is far higher.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls
The constructive thing to do when faced with an offensively stupid opinion is to cut it down and to help replace it with something better. As far as I can see, it isn't right or possible to accept that stupid opinion and move on with the conversation. It isn't something I'm morally willing to do, in any case.

In the past, for example, I have been told in no uncertain terms "Look, your opinion about anxiety disorders is not valid". I was shown why. I learned. I understand better now. There was no way except telling me I was wrong. My opinion was not expressed in a particularly offensive way, but it certainly was wrong and uninformed.

namazu, it is not too much of a stretch here to say (and please let me make it clear that I'm talking as one member to another, not to a moderator) that I am offended that you are offended by this. It is simply not a bad thing to call out bad behaviour, and simply not a bad thing to take someone to task for a stupid and ill-considered opinion. It is part of normal discourse, and not some kind of disease or mistake.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that I am opposed to calling out "bad behavior" or "stupid, ill-considered opinions" or that I feel it is "some kind of disease or mistake" to tell someone that they're wrong.

I'm not, and I don't.

I am very much in favor of doing these things, with a firm but compassionate voice.

What I dispute is the idea that it is necessary, effective, supportive, or beneficial to treat people badly while doing so (even if you believe they "deserve" such treatment).


Consider the following paraphrase of exchanges I've seen on the forum:

OP: "[Patently untrue thing.]"

Reply 1: "That's so wrong, it's absurd. That you believe it suggests you're either stupid or willfully manipulating the facts."

Reply 2: "Actually, [true thing] (source)."


(I would advocate a reply along the lines of #2.)

Last edited by namazu; 02-22-16 at 03:41 AM..
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Old 02-23-16, 09:12 AM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

I have to echo N but will say that outside of source material there are the personal experiences provided in threads. "When this has happened to me this is how I felt and this is what would have helped."

We all have to understand that we are prone to mistakes and misunderstanding and I do acknowledge that as Adders there are impulse issues but the foundation of our guidelines and our moderating is to provide a safe and helpful support forum to all members. Does not mean that disagreements are unhealthy but an angry response and disposition can be. Many of us have been unsupported much of our lives; I would hope it is a mutual goal to be understood and support each other.
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Old 02-23-16, 04:41 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdnvwls View Post
Support equals helping.

Support does not equal being nice.

Granted, being nice is better than not being nice.

But on a support forum, really helping is far more important than niceness. When I come for support, I would rather find one helpful person than a hundred nice people.
I try to be both nice and helpful, even if I can't help by much I try to say a few kind words to someone who is struggling because even a few kind words from someone could potentially help them.
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Old 02-23-16, 04:59 PM
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Re: Guidance on participation in Non-ADD Partner Support section?

Kind and helpful aren't mutually exclusive!
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