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Old 10-13-17, 10:35 AM
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Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

I'm starting to see more and more symptoms of ODD emerging in my almost 5 yr old (turns 5 next week). I've actually looked up this disorder a few times over the last couple years, but he never quite fit the description. He seems to be getting worse as he gets older and the symptoms describe him pretty well now. I really worry about when he becomes a teenager. He has always been my most difficult and most ADHD child, super hyperactive and impulsive, very emotional (either really happy and sweet, or crying and tantruming at the drop of a hat). He loves to taunt and tease, he thinks it's hilarious to take off running when we're out in public, he is constantly arguing with me, etc. He gets upset if things aren't done just the right way, he still can't share his toys with his younger brother. He has two older siblings and I did not have this problem with them (well, my daughter is also difficult, but not this bad).

It doesn't help that he doesn't get enough sleep at night. He has always been a super early riser. I don't know what to do about that. I've heard of ADHD kids having trouble falling asleep, but he doesn't have that problem, he just gets up way too early. Even on mornings when I think I'm the first one up, I find him sitting on the couch or something. Up until recently, I would have him take a nap to try to get in more hours of sleep and that helped, but now he either won't nap or when he does nap, he will have trouble falling asleep at night. I've heard of parents giving their kids melatonin to help them fall asleep, but what about when they fall asleep fine but get up too early?

He does have his 5 yr check up with his doctor soon, so I will bring this stuff up at the appt, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has dealt with ODD and/or had the same sleep issues with their child.
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Old 10-13-17, 11:31 AM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Does your son take any meds for his adhd? When we got my granddaughter
diagnosed and medicated at age 11, all the arguing just ... stopped.

My younger granddaughter is diagnosed with autism and anxiety, and can be
very oppositional and angry. For years none of us got enough sleep. She would
up half the night getting into food and other things. The psychiatrist finally
advised Trazadone for sleep and it's been a life-saver. I have used it myself.
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Old 10-13-17, 01:02 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

No, I have not even had him officially diagnosed yet because he is still so young. I just know he has ADHD because everyone in our family has it and he has the worst symptoms. Maybe he will get diagnosed at his next appt.

He has been in speech and occupational therapy for the past 2 yrs, so my main focus has been on that. He was barely speaking at all until about 3 1/2 years old, and then his speech pretty much exploded and he won't stop talking now.

Anyways, I struggle with the thought of medicating him so young. It was difficult putting my older kids on meds and now I'm hopefully starting meds soon, and it just all feels overwhelming. But I also feel like I could be doing so much better for him. I guess I'll see what the doc says, I don't even know if he can start meds this young?
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Old 10-13-17, 01:34 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

My son was diagnosed at age 3.5 and medicated at age 4. There is a sticky about it.
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Old 10-13-17, 01:53 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

WhiteOwl, I have to ask, does your son make eye contact easily with you and others? Have you noticed? Does he look you in the eye when you are talking to him?
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Old 10-13-17, 02:14 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
My son was diagnosed at age 3.5 and medicated at age 4. There is a sticky about it.
Ah, I found it and will look through it. Thank you!
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Old 10-13-17, 02:19 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
WhiteOwl, I have to ask, does your son make eye contact easily with you and others? Have you noticed? Does he look you in the eye when you are talking to him?
Yes, he does make eye contact. Are you asking because of Autism? He has had some quirks that made me think of Autism or Asperger's, but never anything diagnosable and his therapists said he didn't fit the profile.
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Old 10-13-17, 02:28 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteOwl View Post
Yes, he does make eye contact. Are you asking because of Autism? He has had some quirks that made me think of Autism or Asperger's, but never anything diagnosable and his therapists said he didn't fit the profile.
Yes, I asked bc of Autism. The delayed speech threw me. I have 2 ADHD kids and neither had delayed speech. Delayed reading YES, speech, nope. The behaviors you describe, I didn't have that with either of my kids either. They are impulsive, they make poor choices they didn't think through, but they didn't find it funny to run away from me.

A friend of mine thought her kid had ODD but it turned out he was different in school so it wasn't that. Does your boy listen to other authority figures?
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Old 10-13-17, 02:39 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

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Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
Yes, I asked bc of Autism. The delayed speech threw me. I have 2 ADHD kids and neither had delayed speech. Delayed reading YES, speech, nope. The behaviors you describe, I didn't have that with either of my kids either. They are impulsive, they make poor choices they didn't think through, but they didn't find it funny to run away from me.

A friend of mine thought her kid had ODD but it turned out he was different in school so it wasn't that. Does your boy listen to other authority figures?
My older kids also have Dyslexia and although they didn't have delayed speech, it is often the first sign of Dyslexia, so I think it's probably related to that.

My daughter did do the running away thing, but not when she was 5 yrs old. I do have one of those child leashes I had to use when he was younger, but I thought he had outgrown that stage, then he just starts doing it again out of nowhere! When you ask him why, he laughs and says it's hilarious. Like he gets a rush out of it.

He does seem to listen better to other authority figures. They always say he is so sweet and helpful. They do have some issues with him, but apparently not as much as I do.
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Old 10-14-17, 05:40 AM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteOwl View Post
Ah, I found it and will look through it. Thank you!
I hope you dont think I was telling you what to do or something like that its just that your situation sounded so familiar to me. I missed the autism part though.
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Old 10-14-17, 12:47 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I hope you dont think I was telling you what to do or something like that its just that your situation sounded so familiar to me. I missed the autism part though.
No, not at all. I really appreciated reading your experience. I do notice some similarities. Even though mine had a speech delay, he did everything else early. He was never happy as a baby because he became bored very easily. When he was 10 months old, I was in the kitchen washing dishes, looked up and saw him standing on the coffee table. I almost had a heart attack! That was about the time he started walking, climbing and getting into everything. He has always been "driven by a motor". His occupational therapist was astounded. Most of his OT centered around helping him to control his impulses and become aware of his surroundings because he was always hurting himself due to not being able to slow down.

I have seen how much meds help my daughter. Even at 10 yrs old, she can't control herself without them. I can't even talk to her or deal with her in the morning until her meds kick in. She used to attack her older brother and claw him like a wild animal, leaving scratch marks all over him. There was so much fighting and chaos before starting meds. She is just super impulsive and hyperactive. But she is a much more pleasant person on her meds and seems happier. Things aren't perfect, but better.
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Old 10-16-17, 08:15 AM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteOwl View Post
My older kids also have Dyslexia and although they didn't have delayed speech, it is often the first sign of Dyslexia, so I think it's probably related to that.

My daughter did do the running away thing, but not when she was 5 yrs old. I do have one of those child leashes I had to use when he was younger, but I thought he had outgrown that stage, then he just starts doing it again out of nowhere! When you ask him why, he laughs and says it's hilarious. Like he gets a rush out of it.

He does seem to listen better to other authority figures. They always say he is so sweet and helpful. They do have some issues with him, but apparently not as much as I do.
I am dyslexic and didn't have delayed speech.

If he respects other authority figures can it really be ODD?
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Old 10-16-17, 11:44 AM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I am dyslexic and didn't have delayed speech.

If he respects other authority figures can it really be ODD?
Yes, there is a facebook forum for parents of ODD children, who often get along
fine at school but totally lose their sheet at home, mostly on mom.

Apparently when the child is oppositional in other settings as well, the disorder
is considered to be more severe.
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Old 10-16-17, 08:33 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caco3girl View Post
I am dyslexic and didn't have delayed speech.

If he respects other authority figures can it really be ODD?
It may not be ODD, I'm just wondering. Maybe it's just part of ADHD, but not as bad as ODD. The symptoms of ODD do fit him very well when he's at home. I think it's normal for kids to behave better away from home, too.

With my oldest, he was in daycare for years and his ADD didn't start causing problems until he started Kindergarten. He started getting in trouble on day one. And he's always been my easiest and best behaved child! I have no doubt if my 5 yr old had started school this year, there would be big problems.
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Old 10-16-17, 08:51 PM
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Re: Oppositional Defiant Disorder?

In the DSM-V, severity of ODD is determined by whether the presentation of behaviors occurs in one, two, or three or more situations/domains, indicative of mild, moderate, and severe degrees, respectively.

It is entirely possible for a child diagnosed as ODD to be well-behaved at school, and belligerent, defiant, and spiteful/vindictive at home.


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