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Old 11-17-17, 01:09 PM
MilosM MilosM is offline
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I need advice on how to proceed. Also I wrote a personal story.

Wall of text ahead, proceed with caution!
There is a lot of text here which might not be necessary to make a decision but I explained everything in detail because I think it is a good example of ADHD in action. I tried to make it as readable as possible but since English is not my native language I can't promise that it is. I am also heavily impaired, so if I don't finish and post this text now, I will probably forget about it later and won't post it at all. So I have to rush it now which is why it probably won't be as good as I would like it to be. If you can't read it all just skip to the end where I explain which choices I have(last bolded paragraph heading).

How ADHD Ruins people
I think I have a perfect example of how ADHD ruins people. I am a high school dropout who after completely failing in school, developed enormous interest for every single subject I previously failed at. When I left school my writing skills were terrible, I was basically stuck in first grade of elementary school. My English skills were mediocre at best, so I had to teach myself English as well. I was ignorant of most other things except Geography which I always liked. I liked making maps of the world and I had every country and their capital memorized in my head when I was 10 years old.

I have learned a lot since then, but it wasn't of much use to me.
In last 8 years since I dropped out I acquired a lot of non practical knowledge. I read more than 100 books. Which is astonishing for someone like myself, becuase I have a really hard time focusing, and I have to try hard to read more than 2 pages without thinking of something else or daydreaming. Most of those books were either science books or some kind of financial/startup advice, and only 2 were fiction. I learnt a lot and I hope that in the future all that knowledge will be useful to me, because right now it isn't.

I feel more enlightened after home schooling myself, but that's it.
On top of that I read an enormous amount of educational stuff online, I even learned some math after becoming fond of it. Although this can't replace formal education I do feel a lot smarter and more enlightened after home schooling myself. Knowing more than people around me is quite a boost to my ego, but it does not help at all in my day to day life. Because knowing just enough about everything does not make you employable, it just makes you look smarter, which in turn increases the frequency of people saying that you are smart but lazy, Yikes!

Learning revolution and learning with purpose
But in the last 11 months, for the first time in my life I also learned some practical knowledge that was not of particular interest to me. This was revolutionary because I was never able to learn with a purpose. I was usually just learning things that I found interesting, and I was never able to learn something that would actually be useful in some way. But now instead of learning a bit of evolutionary biology, and after that reading about industrial revolution, I actually started learning things that complement each other and could actually be used to earn money in real world.

Learning how to build great websites
From December 2016 till now I learned how to build websites from scratch with HTML, CSS and a bit of JS. I learned Wordpress and some backend stuff. I also learned copywriting, basic photography, SEO and how to set up free SSL for a website. So basically I wanted to learn everything that will allow me to build a good website myself. I also taught myself some other stuff that is not directly related to making websites, but can be useful in some other ways.

Getting a blessing from a friend but ADHD takes over and ruins everything.
After just 3 months my friend who is already experienced with building websites told me that I am ready to get a first job. And yet even after 11 months and learning all kinds of skills I still can't force myself to approach people who need websites. This is where my ADHD takes over completely. As Russel Barkely said, "You can know stuff, but you won't do stuff" and "I don't care what you know, you won't use it". This describes my situation perfectly. I can't approach people because I know I would fail to complete the job. And I know that because I couldn't even finish my own two websites I used for testing. If I am under pressure to finish my brain just goes into hyperactive mode but it doesn't work any better.

Options I have now. To do what I enjoy, or to try to get meds and do the hard work.
Now I'm in a situation where I have two options. I can proceed with website development and I could get meds to see if I can actually get some work done that way.
Or I can quit this and try doing something that my brain desires, like playing video games and making let's play videos.
YT channel was not on my mind at all until recently. My friend started one and his channel started growing pretty quickly. This motivated me to think about starting a channel of my own. I would play popular games, and do crazy commentary. Because me being ADHD is actually pretty fun for people around me, I believe I could be amusing for wider audience as well. Btw those who have to deal with me every day, do not think I am amusing at all . But I can definitely make people laugh, which is probably the only reason I even have any medium distance friends.

So which of these two things should I do? Do something that my brain craves? Or try to get meds and do some real hard work? Either way both options require me to sell something to be able to begin. Meds are quite expensive, and for YT channel I would need to buy a new PC.

Since I am under pressure to earn money, maybe I should just try to get meds and finally use knowledge I have to build websites for money. Because after all YT channel even if successful would take a while to start paying dividends.
Then again, if I were to enjoy the process of making those let's plays, I could do something that is engaging enough for my brain, without even using medication. My brain definitely prefers this, because it would allow me to have fun that is sanctioned, and not riddled with guilt.

Also if you have the time, please point out some of the worst mistakes I made when writing, since my English is not that great. If I made any of course And yeah those last sentences are worst, since they were really rushed. I'll try to fix them later.

Thanks for reading.
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Old 11-18-17, 11:59 AM
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Re: I need advice on how to proceed. Also I wrote a personal story.

There's a lot here, but I'll take a whack at some of it....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilosM View Post
How ADHD Ruins people
I think I have a perfect example of how ADHD ruins people. I am a high school dropout who after completely failing in school, developed enormous interest for every single subject I previously failed at. When I left school my writing skills were terrible, I was basically stuck in first grade of elementary school.
Be careful how you generalize. I know of someone who very likely has ADHD (but is not diagnosed). He is a high school dropout, then went on to become a gifted electrical engineer and develop possibly the world's best example of a particular device. Granted, it is necessary to have the intellectual horsepower and natural aptitude to achieve great things, but a conventional path to achieving them is not needed. One of the most important lessons to learn with this disorder is that we need to approach our lives differently than NTs.

We all learn in our own ways. And when people with ADHD are truly motivated, we can be astonishingly good at things.

One good reason for the change in your writing skills is that there is a part of your brain associated with writing that does not fully mature until around 30 years old. Your experience mirrors mine.

Quote:
I have learned a lot since then, but it wasn't of much use to me.Most of those books were either science books or some kind of financial/startup advice, and only 2 were fiction. I learnt a lot and I hope that in the future all that knowledge will be useful to me, because right now it isn't.
I think part of what's at work here is that you're maturing. When we're young we are sponges for knowledge and we are completely indiscriminate. As we get older and gain more responsibility our motivation changes. Sometimes it comes as an 'Aha!' moment, like "How am I going to pay my rent this month?" The mundane things don't get any more pleasant, but motivation is a very big deal for ADHDers. You'd be surprised what you can focus on if the alternative is getting evicted. (Depending, of course, on the severity of your condition.)

Quote:
I feel more enlightened after home schooling myself, but that's it.
On top of that I read an enormous amount of educational stuff online, I even learned some math after becoming fond of it. Although this can't replace formal education I do feel a lot smarter and more enlightened after home schooling myself. Knowing more than people around me is quite a boost to my ego, but it does not help at all in my day to day life.
Self-esteem and minimizing isolation are critically important. But so is getting through your day. Be ruthless about identifying the many little ways in which you fail, and engage in behavior modification to mitigate those failures. Years ago I started carrying a little notebook and flexible pen in my pocket laid out like a day planner where I could keep track of stuff. And I wore an alarm watch to remind myself of important events. It wasn't perfect, but it was a HUGE help - made me sort of normal, which was pretty liberating. Now that function has moved to my phone - but I still keep the notebook in my pocket. Always be evolving.

Quote:
Learning revolution and learning with purpose
But in the last 11 months, for the first time in my life I also learned some practical knowledge that was not of particular interest to me. This was revolutionary because I was never able to learn with a purpose. ... I actually started learning things that complement each other and could actually be used to earn money in real world.
There's that motivation thing at work.

Quote:
Learning how to build great websites
From December 2016 till now I learned how to build websites from scratch with HTML, CSS and a bit of JS....
I suspect that part of your ability to focus on this is that you have at least some interest in it and some aptitude to support your interest. That's OK - ADHDers do best at things that interest us.

Quote:
Getting a blessing from a friend but ADHD takes over and ruins everything.
After just 3 months my friend who is already experienced with building websites told me that I am ready to get a first job. And yet even after 11 months and learning all kinds of skills I still can't force myself to approach people who need websites. This is where my ADHD takes over completely. As Russel Barkely said, "You can know stuff, but you won't do stuff" and "I don't care what you know, you won't use it". This describes my situation perfectly. I can't approach people because I know I would fail to complete the job. And I know that because I couldn't even finish my own two websites I used for testing. If I am under pressure to finish my brain just goes into hyperactive mode but it doesn't work any better.
It's a genuine concern, but I think you're letting it be a bigger barrier than it might really be. But a barrier is a barrier. How do you remove it? Hint: Is this important enough to you to finish your test websites?

Quote:
Options I have now. To do what I enjoy, or to try to get meds and do the hard work.
Now I'm in a situation where I have two options. I can proceed with website development and I could get meds to see if I can actually get some work done that way.
Or I can quit this and try doing something that my brain desires, like playing video games and making let's play videos.
YT channel was not on my mind at all until recently. My friend started one and his channel started growing pretty quickly. This motivated me to think about starting a channel of my own. I would play popular games, and do crazy commentary. Because me being ADHD is actually pretty fun for people around me, I believe I could be amusing for wider audience as well. Btw those who have to deal with me every day, do not think I am amusing at all . But I can definitely make people laugh, which is probably the only reason I even have any medium distance friends.

So which of these two things should I do? Do something that my brain craves? Or try to get meds and do some real hard work? Either way both options require me to sell something to be able to begin. Meds are quite expensive, and for YT channel I would need to buy a new PC.
I don't know you, but from what you've written here I get the feeling you would not be reaching your potential by just trying to live off a YT channel. You might be able to develop that into a truly iconic presence and do great things with it, but that's not what you seem to foresee. The way you describe it seems like you could only be relevant while you're young, and you'd be wasting a lot of time that could be spent building a future for yourself with real staying power. And if I'm right about your general capability, after awhile you would likely become unsatisfied with being a YT clown.

That's not to say you shouldn't do it, I just wouldn't rely on it. One thing that is very useful for us is to have multiple interests. It's that whole distraction thing....

Quote:
Since I am under pressure to earn money, maybe I should just try to get meds and finally use knowledge I have to build websites for money. Because after all YT channel even if successful would take a while to start paying dividends.
Do not assume meds will help. They could be immediately and profoundly transformational, or it could take years to finally find the right med or combination of meds and the right doses, or you might find you can't take the side effects or meds don't work for you at all. Do not discount the effectiveness of behavior modification.

Quote:
Then again, if I were to enjoy the process of making those let's plays, I could do something that is engaging enough for my brain, without even using medication. My brain definitely prefers this, because it would allow me to have fun that is sanctioned, and not riddled with guilt.
Perhaps, but for how long? Consider this - if you're good at website design, you're not too far away from general programming. Have you thought about creating smart phone apps? That would let you work at your own pace, without the pressure and the all-too-familiar threat of letting someone down (big hit to your self-esteem), while still having an outlet for your talent that can pay the bills.

And maybe still play with YT, if you can do it to an extent that doesn't slow your app income. Who knows, maybe you can create a lasting useful presence there. Stranger things have happened.

Best of luck,
ZD
__________________
"Normal" refers to a majority view.

If ADHD was more prevalent it would be "normal". It would shape all of society, just as it shapes our individual lives now.

Those with an excessive need for order, consistency and timeliness would face a lifelong struggle. Most of us "normals" would wonder why they don't lighten up and be more open to life's ebb and flow.

"Normal" is a meaningless concept. Reality is what it is. How we choose to deal with it is what defines us.
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Old 11-18-17, 12:19 PM
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Re: I need advice on how to proceed. Also I wrote a personal story.

Have you been evaluated and officially diagnosed for ADHD? If not, I think it would be a good idea to be seen and start coaching/meds. Can you do building websites as a job and just do the YT videos as a hobby on the side? Some people make good money off YT, but I don't think it's a stable source of income for most people. I would pursue what you have already gained knowledge in and see how that goes.

And your English is better than many native English speakers, so I wouldn't worry about that.
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Old 11-18-17, 08:16 PM
MilosM MilosM is offline
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Re: I need advice on how to proceed. Also I wrote a personal story.

Thank you very much for your reply. I knew I wrote too much, and I knew that it will be hard to read. But I had to post it, because if I started removing things I would end up not posting anything at all. So yeah I am really grateful that anyone actually read it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom Dude View Post
Be careful how you generalize. I know of someone who very likely has ADHD (but is not diagnosed). He is a high school dropout, then went on to become a gifted electrical engineer and develop possibly the world's best example of a particular device. Granted, it is necessary to have the intellectual horsepower and natural aptitude to achieve great things, but a conventional path to achieving them is not needed.
I don't know if it sounded like I do, but I do not regret anything in the past. I definitely don't regret my failures in school, because I know that even if someone magically spawned a great degree for me, I would still be stuck where I am now. Because my problem isn't acquiring knowledge, but inability to use it.

Quote:
One good reason for the change in your writing skills is that there is a part of your brain associated with writing that does not fully mature until around 30 years old. Your experience mirrors mine.

I think part of what's at work here is that you're maturing. When we're young we are sponges for knowledge and we are completely indiscriminate. As we get older and gain more responsibility our motivation changes. Sometimes it comes as an 'Aha!' moment, like "How am I going to pay my rent this month?" The mundane things don't get any more pleasant, but motivation is a very big deal for ADHDers. You'd be surprised what you can focus on if the alternative is getting evicted. (Depending, of course, on the severity of your condition.)
Yeah I definitely feel as if I can do some things better now. In the past I was not even able to learn anything. While now I can put my mind to something, and become at least decent at it, before getting bored and quitting of course . Frankly I don't react well to any kind of pressure. I have a feeling that if my situation was that dire(getting evicted and becoming homeless), I would just roll over and die. I also have a feeling that if I won lottery tomorrow, suddenly I would be able to do things better, and even earn money for myself. Strange huh?
Common sight for me though. My father was always like this. When his financial situation is poor, he doesn't have enough willpower to make it better. Yet when his situation improves, he than starts working at home more and earning more money. Pressure to do well = complete paralysis for myself as well. BTW these oddities run in the family. For whole my life I was told by my relatives that my family is just weird like that.

Quote:
Self-esteem and minimizing isolation are critically important. But so is getting through your day. Be ruthless about identifying the many little ways in which you fail, and engage in behavior modification to mitigate those failures. Years ago I started carrying a little notebook...
I write things down all the time. It does help me keep my thoughts a bit more organized. But alarm clocks or to do lists just make thing worse for me. To do lists I just ignore because they just make me anxious. Because again, creating pressure just makes me avoid things more.

Quote:
I suspect that part of your ability to focus on this is that you have at least some interest in it and some aptitude to support your interest. That's OK - ADHDers do best at things that interest us.
Not really, I think I just found a way to learn things. I was very motivated to finally learn something that could provide me with some income. I also sold my gaming PC in December 2016 and bought a weak laptop that can't run any serious games. This decoupled me from my main distraction.

Not that I found coding a website from scratch boring, I actually did enjoy that part. More than I enjoyed building in Wordpress for sure. But still, building a good website is a lot of hard work, and doing it all alone is a big task, at least if you want to do it well. But the key thing here to remember is that I was not driven to do this because I had passion for it, if that was true I would probably learn all that when I was 15.

Quote:
It's a genuine concern, but I think you're letting it be a bigger barrier than it might really be. But a barrier is a barrier. How do you remove it? Hint: Is this important enough to you to finish your test websites?
Well I could always just try and fail like a grown up man that I am. But it's not that simple, because my brain doesn't react well to failure. I have limited amount of willpower, and every time I fail I get seriously depressed and it takes me some time to recover.
I am not entirely sure what do you mean by is it important enough to me? I am very driven to succeed, but I have so many roadblocks that I can't help but wonder if I am going in the right direction. I really love this world and I want to experience all kinds of things, so it is imperative for me to finally become financially fully self sufficient. But I'm afraid it won't be possible without me taking some radical turn. And here I come back to my two options again

Quote:
I don't know you, but from what you've written here I get the feeling you would not be reaching your potential by just trying to live off a YT channel. You might be able to develop that into a truly iconic presence and do great things with it, but that's not what you seem to foresee. The way you describe it seems like you could only be relevant while you're young, and you'd be wasting a lot of time that could be spent building a future for yourself with real staying power. And if I'm right about your general capability, after awhile you would likely become unsatisfied with being a YT clown.

That's not to say you shouldn't do it, I just wouldn't rely on it. One thing that is very useful for us is to have multiple interests. It's that whole distraction thing....
Great observations. Trust me, I am wildly ambitious, and the last thing I want is to get stuck on YT making videos for small audience and being a YT clown. The reason I am even considering that is because I might just like it, and that way I would play to my strengths for a while at least. I just need something that I could be good at, so I can boost my confidence by experiencing some success. And of course if I could earn some small amounts of money by doing that it would be great.

YT is definitely not my end goal. In addition to fooling around on YT I would also try to develop some other businesses I had in mind. A gaming channel could also prove to be suitable because I am quite comfortable speaking in English, which means that I can target much wider audiences, and more importantly western audience. And this is great because I live in a country where average salary is some $450 per month(lower in my region). Where things are dirt cheap and you can get a great flat for $130, not that I need one though, I have my own house so I'm also safe from eviction .



Quote:
Do not assume meds will help. They could be immediately and profoundly transformational, or it could take years to finally find the right med or combination of meds and the right doses, or you might find you can't take the side effects or meds don't work for you at all. Do not discount the effectiveness of behavior modification.
I am aware of that, that is why I am even thinking of this silly YT channel. Not to mention, I live in a developing country. There are no meds like Ritalin and Adderal here. I once went on a quest to find which meds are available in pharmacies where I live. I only found Concerta, and worker there even pointed out that it is given only to kids. So there is a real possibility that I won't even be able to get the right medication(if any). But what else is left if not hope that my first pill will make me a superhuman?


Quote:
Perhaps, but for how long? Consider this - if you're good at website design, you're not too far away from general programming. Have you thought about creating smart phone apps? That would let you work at your own pace, without the pressure and the all-too-familiar threat of letting someone down (big hit to your self-esteem), while still having an outlet for your talent that can pay the bills.

And maybe still play with YT, if you can do it to an extent that doesn't slow your app income. Who knows, maybe you can create a lasting useful presence there. Stranger things have happened.

Best of luck,
ZD
I did think about getting into programming and app/game development. I liked creating simple programs with JavaScript, but then someone on another forum convinced me that to become a good programmer, I would need to invest years into learning it all. His opinion is that it is better to just learn some basic stuff, and outsource everything else. I happen to agree with that, because my goal is not to get a degree or to get a title. My goal is to become a successful entrepreneur, and earn enough money so I can dedicate my time to doing something that I truly love, which is doing science, building rockets and doing other geeky stuff.

Again, thanks for reading. Do know that I initially wrote even longer reply than this one, that's why it took me so much to post, I was trying to cut as much as possible from my text. Now I am thinking about just adding some more text in a spoiler at the bottom. Are spoilers even possible here?

Last edited by MilosM; 11-18-17 at 08:17 PM.. Reason: Removed some code that didn't work
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Old 11-18-17, 08:34 PM
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Re: I need advice on how to proceed. Also I wrote a personal story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteOwl View Post
Have you been evaluated and officially diagnosed for ADHD? If not, I think it would be a good idea to be seen and start coaching/meds. Can you do building websites as a job and just do the YT videos as a hobby on the side? Some people make good money off YT, but I don't think it's a stable source of income for most people. I would pursue what you have already gained knowledge in and see how that goes.

And your English is better than many native English speakers, so I wouldn't worry about that.
Thanks for replying and reading my terrifying wall of text. I was never diagnosed, because where I live there is a huge stigma around these things. Here, unless you are clearly severely mentally ill you will be given a title of a lazy spoiled individual. Now that wouldn't be the problem if I had any idea how to get diagnosed around here. I did find a private clinic that could get me diagnosed, but I need to pay in that case. It's not that expansive, but it is when you are broke . I am also delaying because I am not sure what to expect with medicine. What if they only have one kind of medicine available and I don't react to it very well? That would ruin my hope that I will ever fix myself, this way I can at least hope that there is a magic bullet for this...

Building websites was supposed to be my main source of income for the near future. The problem is that after learning how to do it, I realized I am incapable of actually doing the heavy lifting necessary to actually finish a project. Now I'm left wondering if I should change direction, and after years of unsuccessfully trying to do "real" work, should I just surrender to my desires and do what's engaging for my brain.

I might post some more text about why I am thinking of changing direction. I'll post it if I figure out how spoilers work here, so I don't pollute the thread completely with my ramblings.

Oh and thanks, I learned English online quite well. But I am not always able to use it as proficiently, so I always have doubts if I made some amateurish mistakes. Sometimes my brain just sabotages me, and does not allow me to access all of my memory.

Last edited by namazu; 11-18-17 at 08:50 PM.. Reason: Please see your private messages. Thanks!
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Old 11-19-17, 12:44 AM
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Re: I need advice on how to proceed. Also I wrote a personal story.

What about clown college?
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