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  #1  
Old 11-17-17, 02:40 PM
allesandro1 allesandro1 is offline
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ADD and Trauma

I recently had an incident with my boss at work because of my ADD blunders and found myself becoming inordinately upset about what might be considered a relatively minor incident. I discussed it with a friend, who is also a therapist who suggested it might be due to trauma associated with ADD. As we went through my history of negative experiences associated with ADD in both the workplace and at school, the pain just reverberated throughout my body. My stomach felt like it was a ship being tossed about at sea. It was just amazing to me that all of this could be triggered by a single event and that it all connected to a common thread of feelings of inadequacy, failure, and low self esteem, going all the way back to childhood and elementary school.
My friend suggested that I might want to see a trauma specialist to discuss how I might be able to come to terms with all of this, and how I might be able to go about restoring my sense of equilibrium if and when stuff like this happens. Powerful stuff. I wonder if anyone can relate to any of this or has had a similar experience
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  #2  
Old 11-17-17, 03:51 PM
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Smile Re: ADD and Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by allesandro1 View Post
I recently had an incident with my boss at work because of my ADD blunders and found myself becoming inordinately upset about what might be considered a relatively minor incident. I discussed it with a friend, who is also a therapist who suggested it might be due to trauma associated with ADD. As we went through my history of negative experiences associated with ADD in both the workplace and at school, the pain just reverberated throughout my body. My stomach felt like it was a ship being tossed about at sea. It was just amazing to me that all of this could be triggered by a single event and that it all connected to a common thread of feelings of inadequacy, failure, and low self esteem, going all the way back to childhood and elementary school.
My friend suggested that I might want to see a trauma specialist to discuss how I might be able to come to terms with all of this, and how I might be able to go about restoring my sense of equilibrium if and when stuff like this happens. Powerful stuff. I wonder if anyone can relate to any of this or has had a similar experience


First, I would like to sincerely welcome you to the forum,
and secondly, for your bravery, candor, self-expression, and personal insight which you wrote.

Sadly, most people have poor "insight" into the biopsychosocial causes of their behavior--but not you!


Your insight is excellent, and not only do I commend you for simply taking the time to write here (which is therapeutic in itself) but more importantly,
your insight concerning receiving help!
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  #3  
Old 11-17-17, 04:24 PM
kilted_scotsman kilted_scotsman is offline
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Re: ADD and Trauma

ADHD and Trauma can be closely linked. This is not the well known PTSD type of trauma but a different variety that is beginning to be recognised under the heading "Complex-PTSD" or C-PTSD. It is important to realise that PTSD and C-PTSD are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT beasts... different causation, different effect on brain function and different treatment.

What you are describing could be C-PTSD from living in an environment full of continuous threat and difficulty. This is different from conventional PTSD caused by one or more serious traumatic events.

There are some who hold that the ADHD symptom cluster can occur as a result of C-PTSD, and others who think that the C-PTSD is a result of living in an ADHD unfriendly environment.

Either way the symptoms are there and real, sometimes causing significant impairment in functioning, and long term physiological impact.

It is important to know that C-PTSD is not recognised in the DSM and consequently not recognised by insurance and many trauma "professionals", however the International Centre for Trauma Studies produced guidelines for its treatment a few years ago. These guidelines make it clear that C-PTSD treatment is completely different to PTSD treatment as the two are not linked in neurological effect.

This means that finding a "Trauma specialist" might not produce results as what you are looking for is a specialist who recognises the difference between single event PTSD and C-PTSD, which many don't.

A good person to read on this subject is Bessel van der Kolk "The Body Keeps the Score".
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Old 11-17-17, 04:29 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman View Post
ADHD and Trauma can be closely linked. This is not the well known PTSD type of trauma but a different variety that is beginning to be recognised under the heading "Complex-PTSD" or C-PTSD. It is important to realise that PTSD and C-PTSD are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT beasts... different causation, different effect on brain function and different treatment.

What you are describing could be C-PTSD from living in an environment full of continuous threat and difficulty. This is different from conventional PTSD caused by one or more serious traumatic events.

There are some who hold that the ADHD symptom cluster can occur as a result of C-PTSD, and others who think that the C-PTSD is a result of living in an ADHD unfriendly environment.

Either way the symptoms are there and real, sometimes causing significant impairment in functioning, and long term physiological impact.

It is important to know that C-PTSD is not recognised in the DSM and consequently not recognised by insurance and many trauma "professionals", however the International Centre for Trauma Studies produced guidelines for its treatment a few years ago. These guidelines make it clear that C-PTSD treatment is completely different to PTSD treatment as the two are not linked in neurological effect.

This means that finding a "Trauma specialist" might not produce results as what you are looking for is a specialist who recognises the difference between single event PTSD and C-PTSD, which many don't.

A good person to read on this subject is Bessel van der Kolk "The Body Keeps the Score".


I agree concerning your comments about " C-PTSD"

I would also consider other Axis 1 and 2 differentials
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  #5  
Old 11-17-17, 05:21 PM
allesandro1 allesandro1 is offline
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Re: ADD and Trauma

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted_scotsman View Post
ADHD and Trauma can be closely linked. This is not the well known PTSD type of trauma but a different variety that is beginning to be recognised under the heading "Complex-PTSD" or C-PTSD. It is important to realise that PTSD and C-PTSD are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT beasts... different causation, different effect on brain function and different treatment.

What you are describing could be C-PTSD from living in an environment full of continuous threat and difficulty. This is different from conventional PTSD caused by one or more serious traumatic events.

There are some who hold that the ADHD symptom cluster can occur as a result of C-PTSD, and others who think that the C-PTSD is a result of living in an ADHD unfriendly environment.

Either way the symptoms are there and real, sometimes causing significant impairment in functioning, and long term physiological impact.

It is important to know that C-PTSD is not recognised in the DSM and consequently not recognised by insurance and many trauma "professionals", however the International Centre for Trauma Studies produced guidelines for its treatment a few years ago. These guidelines make it clear that C-PTSD treatment is completely different to PTSD treatment as the two are not linked in neurological effect.

This means that finding a "Trauma specialist" might not produce results as what you are looking for is a specialist who recognises the difference between single event PTSD and C-PTSD, which many don't.

A good person to read on this subject is Bessel van der Kolk "The Body Keeps the Score".
Thank you so much!! Just read a lot of material on complex PTSD and EMDR treatment. I do see the difference, and see that trauma treatment would be likely to require an EMDR certified specialist which is too difficult for me to afford right now since insurance doesn't provide this. I do believe the C-PTSD is the result of repeated trauma regarding working memory and inability to organize multiple stimuli. People are not so understanding about this, and can be quite cruel, including not just kids in the school yard, but also the elementary school teacher who should have known better, and perhaps should have been a lot kinder. Thank you again for your thoughtful and informed response, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it
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  #6  
Old 11-18-17, 06:05 AM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

Can someone explain what c-ptsd is and what adhd trauma is?
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Old 11-18-17, 01:44 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Can someone explain what c-ptsd is and what adhd trauma is?
LOL. I actually do not know. Never heard of the term
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Old 11-18-17, 05:39 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

Completed some research RE "Complex PTSD" and how to operationally define Traumatic ADHD (LAST LINK)



Assessment and Treatment of Complex PTSD by Bessel van der Kolk

A Developmental Approach to Complex PTSD: Childhood and Adult Cumulative Trauma as Predictors of Symptom Complexity by Marylene Cloitre et al.

Retrospective reports of childhood trauma in adults with ADHD by Deborah Brown et al.

Evidence for proposed ICD-11 PTSD and complex PTSD: a latent profile analysis by Marylene Cloitre et al.

Last edited by namazu; 11-18-17 at 06:04 PM.. Reason: Reformatted links and gave paper titles for easier navigation.
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Old 11-18-17, 09:20 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

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Originally Posted by wonderboy View Post
I agree concerning your comments about " C-PTSD"

I would also consider other Axis 1 and 2 differentials
i believe they did away with axis 2

i think this will start showing a lot more relation with things like adhd, autism and certain pds

its a very interesting subject now with a lot of cool possibilities
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Old 11-18-17, 09:27 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

I hope you found the articles that I researched for you helpful in any way
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Old 11-18-17, 09:30 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

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I hope you found the articles that I researched for you helpful in any way
i did, im locked from two

i wasnt trying to correct you, just add to what you were saying
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Old 11-18-17, 09:31 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

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Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
i did, im locked from two

i wasnt trying to correct you, just add to what you were saying


I am so used to using DSM IV actually, though I don't really use it in a applied "clinical" sense.

Conversely, I work in education
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Old 11-19-17, 02:16 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

hi Sarahsweets....

You could try try reading the ISTSS Expert Consensus Treatment Guidelines for Complex PTSD in Adults.

I've found that as I delve down into my ADHD I'm finding the combination of ADHD and C-PTSD makes more sense to me that looking at straight ADHD. One reason for this is I'm contra-indicated for stimulant meds so can't follow the usual ADHD treatment regime.

The focus on meds in ADHD treatment meant I found it difficult to find a treatment direction until I stumbled across Gabor Mate's work.... following that led me to van der Kolk and his research into what he refers to as C-PTSD..... a way of looking at how long term chronic stress affects the brain and behaviour.

while the label ADHD describes a symptom cluster in the DSM IV and V it doesn't drill down into the underlying causation..... which may well be varied, including genetic and environmental factors. C-PTSD shares many of ADHD's symptom cluster, but moves closer toward an environmental/relational causation...... which helps in the development of a non-stimulant treatment process.

I'd say it was almost impossible to differentiate strongly genetic ADHD from C-PTSD without a prolonged diagnostic interview, possibly spanning many sessions. The situation is made more complex if the family has a history of undiagnosed ADHD behaviours or the schooling environment is unstable.

Ultimately it comes down to what the individual finds most useful in either reducing their symptoms or allowing them to live more comfortably with their symptoms.

Since medication is closed to me.... I've found the C-PTSD approach very useful in looking at my behaviours and developing ways of alleviating the worst of them. The reduction of my social/relational anxiety and related addictive behaviours being the most significant.
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  #14  
Old 11-20-17, 01:33 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

A combined treatment approach, focusing on ADD caused by genetic and or environmental causes as well as complex postraumatic stress disorder seems to make the most sense to me, however it's very difficult to find people skilled in both of these areas, in fact pretty much impossible in the city I live in. Even treatment for complex traumatic stress disorder is difficult to find and impossible if your trying to use insurance. Out of pocket treatment is really expensive, especially since many trauma specialists seem to work in 90 minute sessions, and suggest treatment twice a week. That becomes very cost prohibitive in no time at all. If anyone knows of any way around this please let me know
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Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM
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Re: ADD and Trauma

allesandro1. you took the first step that many are not willing to take.

and it's the first step to recovery.

know you aren't imagining things. going through treatment myself, know that one of the best things you can do is watch recovery video's. it doesn't matter if they aren't exactly for what you are describing, because everyone is different in this regard, however, you can pick things up here and there, even though everyone is different, everyone has similar stories here and there. for me, it helped in just knowing that others could overcome their strife, whatever that was.

what truly helped was knowing how looking at two sides of the coin hindered recovery after some key points and how the reciprocal is also true. the platue effect (while you are learning about everything through therapy, talking, reading etc....). looking at a negative is imperative to learning the behaviors and cognition that can be changed from such an incident(and yes, you can develop behaviors based on past incidents). implementing these into your life takes time (thus the platue). the more you try to juggle the less focus you have.

the reason I say this is because later on, you might just be able to look at your life as a narrative, and look at the entire picture for that *AHA* moment. then all the dominoes fall into place.

one last comment on this, one of the most profound things I learned in therapy is the reflective *you* and just what it means. It can be used for healing the soul, or for destruction. if you have ever heard(in recall) someone say say "I give up on you", especially in those early years of childhood growth.

know that they where talking about themselves.
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