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View Poll Results: My AD(H)D is caused by..
Genetic predisposition only. 3 50.00%
Environmental circumstances only. 0 0%
Genetic predisposition and Environmental circumstances. 3 50.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16  
Old 03-01-18, 02:14 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post

From Science Daily: First direct evidence that ADHD is a genetic disorder:
Children with ADHD more likely to have missing or duplicated segments of DNA

Question #2

If ADHD is more likely to emerge in children missing or duplicate segments of DNA.

How does ADHD emerge in children who do not have these missing or duplicate segments of DNA?



M
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  #17  
Old 03-01-18, 02:22 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Lunacie

Every research article I have ever read about AD(H)D, writes that AD(H)D emerges due to environmental factors and genetic factors.

You have mentioned genetic factors possibly involved.


Question #3

What environmental factors do you think are involved in the emergence of AD(H)D?


Question #4

Does AD(H)D emerge in all people who have these possible genetic factors?






M
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  #18  
Old 03-01-18, 04:22 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Question #3

What environmental factors do you think are involved in the emergence of AD(H)D?
(Early) Childhood and current life circumstances can either have a soothing influence or act as a multiplier to the genetic disposition.

Especially when a child starts with a disadvantage (genetic or neurological), its important that it grows up in a stable home where it is properly nurtured and learns to regulate its own emotions and behaviour, accept or set boundaries and define and approach its goals, including self-care.

In neurotypicals any big violations on these points already can have a devastating effect, but in the case where there is a predisposition to develop ADD, the effect of these violations will grow perhaps exponentially.

The child will be less equiped to process the Traumas it endures while at the same time be more sensitive to them. The tendency to seek out external stimuli to compensate for internal understimulation could probably be enhanced that way, and later on increase the likelyhood of addictions and all sorts of compensatory copingmechanisms.
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  #19  
Old 03-01-18, 04:31 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Question #4

Does AD(H)D emerge in all people who have these possible genetic factors?
Besides specific genetic factors that can contribute to Add, other genetic loads could reduce or increase the emergence of ADD, or in some other combinations even lead to another mental disorder or syndrome all together?

Last edited by DeClutter; 03-01-18 at 04:39 PM.. Reason: typo :-)
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  #20  
Old 03-01-18, 04:56 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Question

How does these inborn factors influence the development of self regulation/executive function in brain areas that always develop after birth, especially in early life?

M
If some DNA segments are missing or duplicated then the brain does not
develop in a neurotypical manner, i.e. the way it would develop if these DNA
segments were like the majority of brains.

If those atypical brain regions are those associated with self-regulation, then
the development of self-regulation would be atypical as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Question #2

If ADHD is more likely to emerge in children missing or duplicate segments of DNA.

How does ADHD emerge in children who do not have these missing or duplicate segments of DNA?


M
From the research done in the UK they came to the conclusion that children
with duplicated or missing segments of DNA did develop adhd, while children
without the missing or duplicated segments of DNA did NOT develop adhd.
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  #21  
Old 03-01-18, 05:09 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Lunacie

Every research article I have ever read about AD(H)D, writes that AD(H)D emerges due to environmental factors and genetic factors.

You have mentioned genetic factors possibly involved.


Question #3

What environmental factors do you think are involved in the emergence of AD(H)D?


Question #4

Does AD(H)D emerge in all people who have these possible genetic factors?

M
Here is what the article I mentioned above says about the environment:

Quote:
"ADHD is not caused by a single genetic change, but is likely caused by a
number of genetic changes, including CNVs, interacting with a child's
environment," explains Dr Kate Langley.
CNV = copy number variant

The article does not address whether these genetic variables always lead to
the person having adhd. In fact, these genetic variables may lead to autism
or schizophrenia ... or a combination of these disorders. Just as DeClutter
speculated.
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-RUSSELL A. BARKLEY, PH.D.


As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
  #22  
Old 03-01-18, 05:17 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Further answer to question #4 ...

I looked up the original research in The Lancet: (I hope this link is permitted)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...109-9/fulltext

Quote:
We identified a highly significant excess of large, rare CNVs in children with ADHD compared with control participants, with the average number of CNVs per child with ADHD being 2キ09 times higher than that in controls (p=8キ9ラ10−5 table 1). 50 (14%) affected children were shown to carry a CNV larger than 500 kb, compared with 75 (7%) controls. In each of the ADHD and control samples, the rates of CNVs did not differ between male and female participants (data not shown; results available from NMW).
If I understand this correctly, some may have a smaller number of CNVs
(copy number variants of DNA segment) and they may not develop adhd.
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  #23  
Old 03-01-18, 08:25 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Lunacie

What specifically are you disagree with Dr. Mate about?

I do not see any information in the research you have presented, that disagrees with Dr. Mate, in my opinion.

In fact you seem to be saying the same thing.

Quote:
"ADHD is not caused by a single genetic change, but is likely caused by a number of genetic changes, including CNVs, interacting with a child's environment," explains Dr Kate Langley. (Quote from Science Daily Article)

Quote:
Quote:
Finally, when genomic DNA was available for both parents, we examined the inheritance of each large, rare CNVs (12 ADHD probands without intellectual disability). Of 15 CNVs, four were de novo, six were inherited from the mother, and five from the father
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journa...10)61109-9.pdf

Quote:
Quote:
de novo

starting from the beginning; anew.
-Google definition


M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-01-18 at 08:51 PM..
  #24  
Old 03-01-18, 08:56 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Question #5

How does anyone rule out the environment as a factor in expression(s)?

Quote:
(opening post quote)
Quote:
People with ADHD are hypersensitive.

That is not a fault or a weakness of theirs, it is how they were born.

It is their inborn temperament.

That, primarily, is what is hereditary about ADHD.

Genetic inheritance by itself cannot account for the presence of ADHD features in people, but heredity can make it far more likely that these features will emerge in a given individual, depending on circumstances.

It is sensitivity, not disorder, that is transmitted through heredity.

In most cases, ADHD is caused by the impact of the environment on particularly sensitive infants.
-Gabor Mate M.D., “Scattered”, p 59.

Quote:
"ADHD is not caused by a single genetic change, but is likely caused by a number of genetic changes, including CNVs, interacting with a child's environment," explains Dr Kate Langley. (Quote from Science Daily Article)



M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-01-18 at 09:21 PM.. Reason: (s)
  #25  
Old 03-01-18, 09:22 PM
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Lunacie Lunacie is offline
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Lunacie

What specifically are you disagree with Dr. Mate about?

I do not see any information in the research you have presented, that disagrees with Dr. Mate, in my opinion.

In fact you seem to be saying the same thing.

M
I don't know how to bring a quote from another thread to this one, but here:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...47#post1986647

you said, "
Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
I read in Dr. Mate’s books that ADHD causation could involve both genetic and environmental factors (nature and nurture), but there does not always need to be genetic factors.

M
I disagree that there do not always need to be genetic factors,
and this study from the U.K. seems to back this up.

I think this study shows pretty clearly that there are genetic factors from the
get-go, from the moment that DNA factors begin turning on and off.
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Last edited by Lunacie; 03-01-18 at 09:42 PM..
  #26  
Old 03-01-18, 09:28 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Question #5

How does anyone rule out the environment as a factor in expression(s)?


M
Namazu pointed out this before, but I will repeat:
No One is ruling out the environment as a factor in expression.

Listen closely. I am saying that without the underlying genetics,
the environment does not cause adhd. PTSD? sure.

From the dictionary for "gene expression" ...
the process by which possession of a gene leads to the appearance
in the phenotype of the corresponding character.


The gene must be there first for the environment to act on.
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As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me

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  #27  
Old 03-01-18, 09:35 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I read in Dr. Mate’s books that ADHD causation could involve both genetic and environmental factors (nature and nurture), but there does not always need to be genetic factors.
To clarify, ADHD causation does not always require a genetic predisposition.
http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...3&postcount=10

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets
I disagree, I believe there is always a genetic part to having adhd.
I think there are always normal genetic factors involved in the development of self regulation (aka executive function), AD(H)D or not.

But there does not always need to be a inherited genetic predisposition to cause AD(H)D. (Aka, deficits of self regulation/deficits of executive function), because self regulation also develops in interaction with the environment.
http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...1&postcount=14

That was my mistake, not Dr. Mate’s, and I clarified that in my post #10 and my post #14.


M
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  #28  
Old 03-01-18, 09:47 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
That was my mistake, not Dr. Mate痴, and I clarified that in my post #10 and my post #14.


M
Say what? Right there in post #14 you are still saying there doesn't have to be
an inherited genetic predisposition.

Is that what you believe or not?
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  #29  
Old 03-01-18, 09:49 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
Namazu pointed out this before, but I will repeat:
No One is ruling out the environment as a factor in expression.

Listen closely. I am saying that without the underlying genetics,
the environment does not cause adhd. PTSD? sure.

From the dictionary for "gene expression" ...
the process by which possession of a gene leads to the appearance
in the phenotype of the corresponding character.


The gene must be there first for the environment to act on.


You need an environment for genetic factors to be expressed, right?


Quote:
Quote:
Of 15 CNVs, four were de novo, six were inherited from the mother, and five from the father
http://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journa...10)61109-9.pdf
Four of variants, were not inherited from the mother or the father, how do you know environment is not a decisive factor?






M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-01-18 at 10:03 PM..
  #30  
Old 03-01-18, 10:16 PM
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Lunacie Lunacie is offline
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
You need an environment for genetic factors to be expressed, right?




Four of variants, were not inherited from the mother or the father, how do you know environment is not a decisive factor?






M
No one is saying that the environment is not a factor in gene expression.

There must be genetic factors for the environment to act upon.

If there are no genetic factors, the environment alone does not cause adhd.

It's not that confusing (to quote the OP).
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As far as I know, there is nothing positive about ADHD that people can't have w out ADHD. ~ ADD me
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