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View Poll Results: My AD(H)D is caused by..
Genetic predisposition only. 3 50.00%
Environmental circumstances only. 0 0%
Genetic predisposition and Environmental circumstances. 3 50.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 03-01-18, 10:22 PM
mildadhd mildadhd is offline
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Environmental Influences on Gene Expression

Quote:
The expression of genes in an organism can be influenced by the environment, including the external world in which the organism is located or develops, as well as the organism's internal world, which includes such factors as its hormones and metabolism. One major internal environmental influence that affects gene expression is gender, as is the case with sex-influenced and sex-limited traits. Similarly, drugs, chemicals, temperature, and light are among the external environmental factors that can determine which genes are turned on and off, thereby influencing the way an organism develops and functions.
Nature.com
There does not need to be a inherited genetic predisposition, to influence anew genetic expression.

The research you posted confirms that.




M
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  #32  
Old 03-01-18, 10:32 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
There does not need to be a inherited genetic predisposition, to influence anew genetic expression.

The research you posted confirms that.

M
I don't agree that the research from the U.K. confirms that.

You asked for opinions and then set out to prove how they are wrong if they
are different than your own opinion. Looks like it's time to unsubscribe from
this thread.
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  #33  
Old 03-01-18, 11:56 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
I don't agree that the research from the U.K. confirms that.

You asked for opinions and then set out to prove how they are wrong if they
are different than your own opinion. Looks like it's time to unsubscribe from
this thread.
I think the article you posted supports the fact that ADHD is real, but it does not rule out the environment as a decisive factor, or that all people who have AD(H)D have a genetic predisposition.

If it did Doctors could use the information to confirm diagnosis.

I never set out to prove anyone wrong.

How could I know you were going to post that article?

I did not start this thread to have a nature verses nurture debate, either.

Someone wrote that Dr. Mate believed there were no genetic factors, so I referred them to this opening post thread/quote by Dr. Mate, for clarity.

I have always said I think it is nature and nurture. (genetic does not always mean genetic predisposition)

Clearly Dr. Mate writes that he thinks inborn hypersensitivity is genetically inherited, and inherited factors (hypersensitivity) and environmental factors (circumstances) are involved in most AD(H)D cases.

I think he is right.

The article you posted also supports the idea that hypersensitivity is genetically inherited, and not limited to people who have AD(H)D.

All these topics are extremely important in regards to understanding individual origins and treatments perspectives.

Specifics depend on individual inborn inherited temperament and individual circumstances.

If you say your AD(H)D is strongly determined by genetics, and I disagreed with you about your AD(H)D, I would be rude/wrong.

I am basing my overall opinion in general on my own experiences and the science that is presently known.








M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-02-18 at 12:26 AM..
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  #34  
Old 03-02-18, 09:29 AM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
I think there are always normal genetic factors involved in the development of self regulation (aka executive function), AD(H)D or not.
Agreed but in the case of adhd, genetic component would be for adhd, not self regulation. Self regulated in sort of a byproduct of adhd.

Quote:
But there does not always need to be a inherited genetic predisposition to cause AD(H)D. (Aka, deficits of self regulation/deficits of executive function), because self regulation also develops in interaction with the environment.
Science says otherwise. Why else does it run in families?


M[/quote]
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  #35  
Old 03-02-18, 10:54 AM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

SarahSweets,

Infants raised in a orphanage, emotionally neglected, without any consistent caregiver/family required to develop self regulation, will not develop healthy self regulation skills.

Individual specifics depends on at least two factors, the individual’s inborn temperament and the individual’s emotional circumstances.

There has never been evidence of consistent genetic predisposition for all people who have AD(H)D.

If there was, doctors would be able to do a test to disgnose us.

Some people do not have any suspected genetic predisposition, but do have AD(H)D (aka, lack of self regulation).

Some people have suspected genetic predisposition, but do not have AD(H)D.


Quote:
Quote:
(p 42) In some people, there will be a greater concentration of developmental problems.

This may be because their specific circumstances were worse, or because they were more sensitive, deeply affected by conditions that others with more robust temperaments could better withstand.
-Gabor Mate M.D., “Scattered”.




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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-02-18 at 11:13 AM..
  #36  
Old 03-02-18, 07:04 PM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Sorry posted in wrong thread.


M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-02-18 at 07:20 PM..
  #37  
Old 03-02-18, 10:13 PM
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Re: It makes me doubt ADD is real when..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I disagree. I think there has to be a genetic component and that environment will play a large roll in how those genetics cause adhd to emerge.


I do not believe it is inborn temperament or sensitivity that is the genetic variant of adhd. I think saying adhd people are more sensitive due to emotional regulation issues is more accurate. Emotional regulation issues I believe are part of the genetic code that makes up adhd.
this is something to think about, keeping in mind no one knows conclusively what exactly ADHD is and why it occurs

one thing about the self regulation though, no human has any type of self regulation until about 18 months at the earliest, all babies are born without the ability to self regulate

yet russell barkley has concluded (let me know i dig up the link if needed) that a majority of babies that develop ADHD have what he calls a sensitive temperament (colicky , tempermental) but not all the babies with this temperament will develop ADHD

so according to barkley, there is a sensitivity of emotion/senses in ADHD before self regulation would have ever developed

that doesnt mean its the direct cause, just an observation
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  #38  
Old 03-03-18, 12:28 AM
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Re: It makes me doubt ADD is real when..

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
this is something to think about, keeping in mind no one knows conclusively what exactly ADHD is and why it occurs

one thing about the self regulation though, no human has any type of self regulation until about 18 months at the earliest, all babies are born without the ability to self regulate

yet russell barkley has concluded (let me know i dig up the link if needed) that a majority of babies that develop ADHD have what he calls a sensitive temperament (colicky , tempermental) but not all the babies with this temperament will develop ADHD

so according to barkley, there is a sensitivity of emotion/senses in ADHD before self regulation would have ever developed

that doesnt mean its the direct cause, just an observation
While it's true that we aren't born with the ability to self-regulate, we are born
with the ability to learn to do that. As I understand it, adhd is a developmental
disorder, which means that our ability to learn self-regulation is delayed ... and
for most of us it will never be neurotypical.

I did a google for "Dr. Barkley + adhd sensitivity in infants" and did not find
anything revelant. If you don't mind sharing that, you have a better idea what
search terms would refer to what you remember seeing.
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  #39  
Old 03-03-18, 12:33 AM
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Re: It makes me doubt ADD is real when..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
While it's true that we aren't born with the ability to self-regulate, we are born
with the ability to learn to do that. As I understand it, adhd is a developmental
disorder, which means that our ability to learn self-regulation is delayed ... and
for most of us it will never be neurotypical.

I did a google for "Dr. Barkley + adhd sensitivity in infants" and did not find
anything revelant. If you don't mind sharing that, you have a better idea what
search terms would refer to what you remember seeing.
sure, I'm not doubting what you post

i was just observing that its an interesting thing to think about...saying emotional sensitivity in ADHD is only due to the inability to self regulate your emotions

because if we were/are more sensitive at birth like barkley says , our emotional sensitivity couldnt ONLY be due to self regulation, seeing that self regulation doesnt exist at birth

thats all I'm saying, nothing deeper or agenda driven

give me a few fore the link
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  #40  
Old 03-03-18, 12:45 AM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

still scanning my libaray

here is something non barkley
https://books.google.com/books?id=YP...olicky&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=8H...olicky&f=false

the second one is funny about the baby running

i guess around 2 i would bust through screens and escape into the neighborhood

often being brought home by neighbors
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  #41  
Old 03-03-18, 01:02 AM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

this one sites barkley while speaking of the difficult temperament

https://books.google.com/books?id=h-...arkley&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=aC...arkley&f=false
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  #42  
Old 03-03-18, 01:10 AM
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Re: It makes me doubt ADD is real when..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunacie View Post
While it's true that we aren't born with the ability to self-regulate, we are born
with the ability to learn to do that. As I understand it, adhd is a developmental
disorder, which means that our ability to learn self-regulation is delayed ... and
for most of us it will never be neurotypical.

I did a google for "Dr. Barkley + adhd sensitivity in infants" and did not find
anything revelant. If you don't mind sharing that, you have a better idea what
search terms would refer to what you remember seeing.
The more severe the affective inborn hypersensitive temperament, the more likely the infant is to be distressed (anxious/angry/depressed) and cause interference in the development of self regulation, when self regulation is developing for the first time.




M
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  #43  
Old 03-03-18, 01:33 AM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
still scanning my libaray

here is something non barkley
https://books.google.com/books?id=YP...olicky&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=8H...olicky&f=false

the second one is funny about the baby running

i guess around 2 i would bust through screens and escape into the neighborhood

often being brought home by neighbors
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
Daveddd

Thank You for posting this information by Dr. Barkley, in regards to distressed inborn temperament during early infancy.

Edit: missed the part where you escaped during early childhood, i’m glad they captured you, before you got hurt.

I barely remember being brought home in a van by a couple of hippies who found me walking up the highway.

I was also told I also used to escape and literally hide in my neighbors dog house. Before I was told a few years ago I had a dream I was in a doghouse as a toddler listening to my mother frantically call me. (Something like that) and I asked my mother and she confirmed it really happened.

Then there was the time I threw a hammer at my brother...when he was picking on me.

Once I hide under the bed all day and listened to my parents frantically calling on the phone everywhere...

I could go on and on with the early life stories, now that you mentioned it.






M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-03-18 at 02:00 AM..
  #44  
Old 03-03-18, 03:03 AM
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Re: What is inborn about ADHD in your opinion?

In my experience, I cannot rule out epigentically inherited inborn genetic predisposition or/and prenatal/postnatal adoption distresses as causation factors of my early affective hypersensitive temperament, that may have been factors that distressed (anxiety/angry/depressed) my early development of self-regulation and caused the emergence of my AD(H)D (aka, lack of self regulation).

But after explicitly considering the topics for years, especially my implicit hyperreaction, which some of my friends have witnessed, when I hear about infants/toodlers/children/adults experiencing separation distresses (separation anxiety/separation distresses), I feel fairly confident to say they may be causation factors, my circumstances.

Example

I cannot stop thinking that the total of early, teen and early adult separation distresses/loss the shooter experienced throughout his own life (resulting in his depression/suicidal rage) are factors in the extremely terrible things he did in Florida.

And how lucky I am to have my adopted family and friends, to help sooth my own pain after experiencing my own early life distresses.


M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-03-18 at 03:32 AM..
  #45  
Old 03-03-18, 04:03 AM
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Re: It makes me doubt ADD is real when..

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveddd View Post
sure, I'm not doubting what you post

i was just observing that its an interesting thing to think about...saying emotional sensitivity in ADHD is only due to the inability to self regulate your emotions

because if we were/are more sensitive at birth like barkley says , our emotional sensitivity couldnt ONLY be due to self regulation, seeing that self regulation doesnt exist at birth

thats all I'm saying, nothing deeper or agenda driven

give me a few fore the link
Remember when we discussed about preexecutive function?

Since then, I learned what Dr. Barkley was calling preexecutive function, other people are calling affective executive functions.

In other words, bottom up emotional regulation/mood disorders involve subcortical affective executive functions, and top down self regulation of emotions involve neocortical cognitive executive functions.

What I am trying to understand now is...

*Which factors (and when) (example: autonomic distresses) influence the number and density of dopamine neurons in the midbrain/VTA and how does a reduction in these dopamine neurons originating in midbrain/VTA (affective executive function) influence development of the same dopaminergic pathways in the upper limbic and prefrontal cortex (cognitive executive function)?

**where does affective executive functions “end” and cognitive executive functions “begin”?

***how does affective executive functions influence cognitive executive functions?

****how does cognitive executive functions influence affective executive functions?





M
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Last edited by mildadhd; 03-03-18 at 04:16 AM..
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