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  #16  
Old 01-16-18, 05:20 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

Thank you for sharing this and I can so related with you with my childhood. I will address certain points as they pertain to me even though I know you were sharing about you.

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Originally Posted by Unmanagable View Post
When I was her age, regardless of the consequences or the act, if I got any feeling whatsoever that my parents felt joy in their punishing me, I'd be motivated to p*** them off even more every chance I got.
No joy here, when I woke up saturday and found out she wasnt here it was like the nightmare began again from that time she ran away. Oh and about that. When she and I were having a really good honest talk about a week ago she told me that time she ran away and we thought she spent the night at the "beach" along the river, she admitted she was at her boyfriends house with her other friend getting drunk. I cant begin to tell you how mad I am at that ex boyfriend and older friend. The harbored her when we were frantically getting in touch with them and looking all over for her.


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Up until the age of 16, my curfew was 10pm. After the age of 16, it was 11pm. I had better not be one minute late, or I was in big trouble, and if I tried to call to ask for more time, I was met with a very quick hell no. Grounding me was their usual method, but then there were also belts, belt buckles, threats of the juvenile detention center while they were packing my clothes for me, making me stay out with no access back into the house, etc.
She doesnt have a set curfew. It depends on what she is doing. And thank god unlike my abusive childhood we have never hit or spanked or phyiscally threatened any of our kids.

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I used to fall asleep at friend's houses A LOT and would forget to call, too. Sometimes it was because I was too f'd up from drugs and drinking that I was self-medicating with and knew I'd be in even bigger trouble if I called or made it home...or I just simply fell asleep because I was cozy and comfortable for a change...not something I often felt at home, unfortunately.
I can see this being possible with her for sure but I am trying to teach her accountability. She starts a new job after quitting 3 in the last 2 months.

Quote:
Grounding me never worked as an attempt to get me to change my overall behavior, only to get me to stop in the moments I HAD to be with them. It only served to make me much more creative in how I managed to still do what I wanted to do and more prone to do the exact opposite of what I was asked.
We also dont ground. Its too general and isolating, I dont believe in shunning the kids when they are receiving consequences, they still get to be with us and watch tv. Last night we had a game night.

Quote:
It also served to make me want to get the hell out of there as soon as I turned 18...which I did...by packing my belongings in a trash bag and hitting the road to couch surf everywhere humanly possible three days after my 18th born day...only to find myself in many years worth of yet another vicious cycle of poor choices and abusive scenarios.
I know in my heart she wants it both ways. She wants to stay with us but doesnt want any rules. Thats where her turning 18 scares us.

Quote:
I also agree with not adding to your list of what needs to be done to accommodate your chosen punishments. You'll very likely feel resentment for having to do all that extra running and it'll show through in some form or fashion in your daily interactions with her, based on how I remember my mom treating us when she had to go out of her way for something after we got in trouble. She liked to throw salt in the wounds, to say the least.
I wont let her know in the least that it might not be convienent because that was selfish of me to say. I dont work now and live ten minutes from the school so its just a simple drive there and back.
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Old 01-16-18, 05:25 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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I guess I agree with Fraser that at 18 she might be a bit too old for punishment unless it's a natural consequence. Especially if it's HER car. If it's your car you've got every right to do with it what you want though
Like I said she is still 17 and it is my car. She was lucky to get a car, my sponsor got a new one and sold me this one for 400$, Thats the only reason she has one. And I think its quite natural. She had her car to come home on time (which I never should have renegotiated because I never do that when she is already out) and she had the means of getting home and has a phone to call.
Quote:
Also it really does seem to punish you more than her....
I guess it does in some ways but isnt that the way of it?If teaching our babies to be accountable, consistent kind adults means they make mistakes and we correct them in order to teach then thats what parenting is IMO.
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Old 01-16-18, 05:36 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

I shouldnt have assumed that everyone who read this thread knew about Becca's antics and Id be lying if I said it didnt sting when it seemed like there were more questions about what I chose to do, or how I chose to do it, and less rallying around me for sticking to something. As someone with adhd and bipolar she knows she has me by the heart strings when it comes to sympathy for poor choices based on mood issues or depression or adhd. But at this point knowing I have done everything I can with in and outpatient help. Meds. and regular psyche appts, keeping her in school and so far going to graduate I cant let her issues emotionally hijack me into not giving her consequences or teaching her about cause and reaction. She may very well have fallen asleep but I dont care. She slept over the girls house already and was hanging out that next day so all day up until 10 and she didnt come home. She has used drugs (party style not the kind you would percure on your own from a dealer) I know she has drank before. And after her telling me that the night we thought she had an emotional breakdown but was basically partying I feel like we were right on this time.

When we talked last week it was gut level honest. She says she doesnt know why she lies. that sometimes she lies for know reason knowing she will get caught. She is honest in some ways where you couldnt believe it and then ask her where she went with her ex boyfriend and you find out they went to visit his mom and hour away instead of staying local.

I have no idea if I am doing this right. My other two are very different. And my 12 step friends are constantly reminding me not to project but I cant help the feeling in my gut that she will suffer other consequences beyond us and that is just how she will learn. I learned through pain and poor choices. When the pain got great enough I changed.

Anyhow I guess I should know better than to have expectations because our expectations never get met.
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Old 01-16-18, 07:17 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

I’m kinda with ya. The real world doesn’t care if you fall asleep

From what I know of you. You seem like a good understanding parent

So I’d only imagine the situation has merit to you and isn’t a petty reason to punis
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Old 01-16-18, 07:23 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I shouldnt have assumed that everyone who read this thread knew about Becca's antics and Id be lying if I said it didnt sting when it seemed like there were more questions about what I chose to do, or how I chose to do it, and less rallying around me for sticking to something. As someone with adhd and bipolar she knows she has me by the heart strings when it comes to sympathy for poor choices based on mood issues or depression or adhd. But at this point knowing I have done everything I can with in and outpatient help. Meds. and regular psyche appts, keeping her in school and so far going to graduate I cant let her issues emotionally hijack me into not giving her consequences or teaching her about cause and reaction. She may very well have fallen asleep but I dont care. She slept over the girls house already and was hanging out that next day so all day up until 10 and she didnt come home. She has used drugs (party style not the kind you would percure on your own from a dealer) I know she has drank before. And after her telling me that the night we thought she had an emotional breakdown but was basically partying I feel like we were right on this time.

When we talked last week it was gut level honest. She says she doesnt know why she lies. that sometimes she lies for know reason knowing she will get caught. She is honest in some ways where you couldnt believe it and then ask her where she went with her ex boyfriend and you find out they went to visit his mom and hour away instead of staying local.

I have no idea if I am doing this right. My other two are very different. And my 12 step friends are constantly reminding me not to project but I cant help the feeling in my gut that she will suffer other consequences beyond us and that is just how she will learn. I learned through pain and poor choices. When the pain got great enough I changed.

Anyhow I guess I should know better than to have expectations because our expectations never get met.
Your expectations never get met? So you have never received support on this site?

I'm sorry to hear that.

In this case I genuinely thought you were looking for honest feedback and not just agreement. Of course our feedback and our advice can be rubbish or wrong. That's always a possibility. I do think most posters were trying to be helpful though. Often all we need is rallying around or agreement with our choices. That's fine as well but I didn't know that's what you were looking for.
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Old 01-16-18, 10:55 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

What a timely post! I was the parent this weekend who turned the car around and did NOT go to the college baseball camp...why...because my son was being a punk, and punks don't get rewarded. I don't care that I lost the money on the camp. I don't care that it messed up my whole day. It was a lesson. If we have addressed a specific behavior and/or action and you KEEP doing it, there are consequences!
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Old 01-16-18, 03:09 PM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

I think you were extremely fair and I wish I had parents like you when I was growing up!! I was raised by conservative Hispanics so safe to say I never had so much as a sleepover. Luckily it didn't impact me in wanting to lash out or anything but I think you have a perfect balance here.

J constantly got in trouble for being too hyper, too needy, not getting things done and all makes sense now with the adhd but no one ever cared to believe me that I was struggling. You're being responsible and giving them the mental health they need, you gave them freedom and responsibly by being nice enough to get them a car, and they need to learn that's a privilege. Many many many teens out there don't get even a quarter of the good parenting you provided. I would never put my kids (future) through what I went through but I also recognize that I turned out ok because I wasn't spoiled and I had to work 3x harder than anyone else. You're giving them independence with the good balance of responsibility. I also believe she might have just fallen asleep but you're right, work won't care, school won't care and it's a hard lesson to learn. Don't worry you're doing great!!!
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Old 01-17-18, 12:43 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I should have worded that differently. I didnt actually grin, inside I felt proud that we were finally giving her consequences that were hitting home. Anyone who has followed the exploits of my baby girl knows that she hasnt had real consequences because there have been alot of mental health issues to address first. She has been inpatient 3 times in her life and the Bipolar/adhd impulsivity has caused her to make choices that were not good but punishing her during those times would have been counterproductive.
I probably should have worded my reply differently as well. I was speaking figuratively. What I was trying to say is that if you're happy because you did the right thing for your daughter, then that's great. But if instead the emotion stems from an egotistical power trip, then's not a good thing.

I take you at your word that you are happy because you did the right thing for you daughter especially when it was painful for you. To be clear, my question wasn't intended to be pointed or directed at you specifically. It was just how I would generally approach that type of question.
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Old 01-17-18, 01:15 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I shouldnt have assumed that everyone who read this thread knew about Becca's antics and Id be lying if I said it didnt sting when it seemed like there were more questions about what I chose to do, or how I chose to do it, and less rallying around me for sticking to something. As someone with adhd and bipolar she knows she has me by the heart strings when it comes to sympathy for poor choices based on mood issues or depression or adhd. But at this point knowing I have done everything I can with in and outpatient help.
I think people often project their own childhood issues onto other parents. It's probably worse on an ADHD forum since it's a core symptom to not pay attention to details (of your/Becca's life), and ADHD children tend to be raised in emotionally dysfunctional households! You're doing the best you can, and that bravery is all that matters!!!

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
When we talked last week it was gut level honest. She says she doesnt know why she lies. that sometimes she lies for know reason knowing she will get caught. She is honest in some ways where you couldnt believe it and then ask her where she went with her ex boyfriend and you find out they went to visit his mom and hour away instead of staying local.
This seems like something that should be addressed by a very experienced therapist. Unless it's a verbal tick, you would think there would have to be a reason why, even if it's subconscious. Maybe it's attention seeking? Maybe it's her way of rebelling? I'm just wildly speculating here!

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I have no idea if I am doing this right. My other two are very different. And my 12 step friends are constantly reminding me not to project but I cant help the feeling in my gut that she will suffer other consequences beyond us and that is just how she will learn. I learned through pain and poor choices. When the pain got great enough I changed.
No parents know what they're doing. They're all doing their best (except those who delude themselves into thinking that they're already perfect). Substance abuse, teenage pregnancies, high school dropping out, car accidents, etc. are very common "consequences" for ADHD people. Some people come out stronger, while others are ruined forever. It's not too late for your daughter. She, like every other kid, needs to learn life's hard lessons, but hopefully her lessons won't need to be that extreme. For instance, her loosing her car privileges was a good choice on your part!


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Anyhow I guess I should know better than to have expectations because our expectations never get met.
Russell Barkley says that ADHD people should have more expectations and consequences. The key is to set them up so that they're attainable. I just going to be blunt here - your daughter's executive functioning is severely disabled. You cannot set expectations that exceed her disability. It's not fair for you or for her to expect her to *magically* come home on time without any assistance. If that's your expectation, then you need to help her meet those expectations. For instance, calling her with reminders, or asking her friend's parents to assist.

Speaking generally, I think it's absolutely vital to have buy-in from the teen. Have a conversation about what your mutual expectations are (school, social, etc), what would count as a fair consequences, and what strategies will be available to help her meet these expectations in spite of her disability.
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Old 01-17-18, 04:18 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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Your expectations never get met? So you have never received support on this site?

I'm sorry to hear that.

In this case I genuinely thought you were looking for honest feedback and not just agreement. Of course our feedback and our advice can be rubbish or wrong. That's always a possibility. I do think most posters were trying to be helpful though. Often all we need is rallying around or agreement with our choices. That's fine as well but I didn't know that's what you were looking for.
Of course I always receive support here. And nobody said my expectations were correct. Having expectations is never a good idea because it doesnt take into account people being individuals and honest. I was just saying I thought it would be different but thats on me, not anyone here. No one has been unkind or mean.
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Old 01-17-18, 04:48 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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Originally Posted by CharlesH View Post


This seems like something that should be addressed by a very experienced therapist. Unless it's a verbal tick, you would think there would have to be a reason why, even if it's subconscious. Maybe it's attention seeking? Maybe it's her way of rebelling? I'm just wildly speculating here!
Yes we are getting her back into therapy.




Quote:
Russell Barkley says that ADHD people should have more expectations and consequences. The key is to set them up so that they're attainable. I just going to be blunt here - your daughter's executive functioning is severely disabled. You cannot set expectations that exceed her disability. It's not fair for you or for her to expect her to *magically* come home on time without any assistance. If that's your expectation, then you need to help her meet those expectations. For instance, calling her with reminders, or asking her friend's parents to assist.
To clarify we did call and text. And as ten came an went my husband stayed up downstairs all night and texted/called all night long. The time we thought she ran away was devastating. I cant begin to explain the pain. There is an older post in this section somewhere about it. That fear immediately jumped back at me and I admit, I probably have to stop projecting here. I need to understand that its not always a catastrophe, its also a teenager in a selfish phase with other mental health issues.

Quote:
Speaking generally, I think it's absolutely vital to have buy-in from the teen. Have a conversation about what your mutual expectations are (school, social, etc), what would count as a fair consequences, and what strategies will be available to help her meet these expectations in spite of her disability.
My mistake was negotiating with her about staying with the friend after the sleep over. Normally before she leaves the house we decide on timing and thats it, no changes but she asked and I went against my better judgement so I am partly at fault in this also.
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Old 01-17-18, 07:29 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

Growing up my parents were very lax I didn’t have consequences for anything

I make my own decisions and don’t blame them for anything. But sometimes I wonder if some consequence could have steered me differently in a couple areas
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Old 01-17-18, 11:59 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

I was never late coming home as a teenager, because I was never allowed to go out.


Cheers,
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Old 01-18-18, 12:40 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

I'm kinda wondering if everyone here misinterpreted the situation, including myself.

Your daughter stays out late. And she keeps staying out late even while she receives multiple texts from your husband reminding her.

This doesn't feel like ADHD forgetfulness to me. Why does she ignore your husbands texts? She seems to be purposefully ignoring them.

This to me definitely should have consequences. Especially if its as small a consequence as not letting your daughter drive your own car. I'm not seeing a soul crushing, permanent scarring punishment here. It seems like a reasonable one.

Will it change her in a way that once she is independent she will learn control? Probably not. But it might stop her from scaring you again or at least as often. Which is important too. You can't be there for your kids if you aren't taking care of yourself as well.

What causes her to act the way she does? If it's just mental illness and genetics then it feels like you already are doing as much as you can for her with therapy and medication. Good friends can really help too. I feel like friends influence teenagers more than parents so if she hangs around a good crowd, she's better off.

Anyway, just wanted to give you support since you were wanting to it and since I do believe what I wrote.
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Old 01-18-18, 05:40 AM
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Re: proud to say we took her car away for awhile

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Originally Posted by acdc01 View Post
I'm kinda wondering if everyone here misinterpreted the situation, including myself.

Your daughter stays out late. And she keeps staying out late even while she receives multiple texts from your husband reminding her.

This doesn't feel like ADHD forgetfulness to me. Why does she ignore your husbands texts? She seems to be purposefully ignoring them.
Yes, I believe it was on purpose. I think part of her issues are mental health and the other part are being a teenager that thinks the world revolves around her (which I thought at her age). I think too that she is moving towards addiction. She has never been able to be in the gray its always black or white all or nothing. Yes, she has told me about some of her antics involving alcohol-but only when she has moments of clarity. Do I believe those are the only times? Nope. I believe there is a lot more that I dont know.
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This to me definitely should have consequences. Especially if its as small a consequence as not letting your daughter drive your own car. I'm not seeing a soul crushing, permanent scarring punishment here. It seems like a reasonable one.
I should have provided this detail. It is "her car" as in we bought it for her but its in my name. We never intended to ever give our kids their own cars. My son's car was a hand me down from his uncle and now a hand me down from his grandma. My sponsor had a very old high mileage malibu and bought a new car. She sold this one to me for 400$. Thats the only reason she has a car-but its in my name hence why I say its mine. I think this is why I thought taking the car away would be a good consequence. She doesnt have the freedom to make plans and get there. She now has to rely on me. And I am hoping it will help teach her. Its part of why we were so upset that she stayed out all night-she could have been anywhere cause she had her own car.

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Will it change her in a way that once she is independent she will learn control? Probably not. But it might stop her from scaring you again or at least as often. Which is important too. You can't be there for your kids if you aren't taking care of yourself as well.

What causes her to act the way she does? If it's just mental illness and genetics then it feels like you already are doing as much as you can for her with therapy and medication. Good friends can really help too. I feel like friends influence teenagers more than parents so if she hangs around a good crowd, she's better off.
She has codependent issues with boyfriends.Currently pining for one that doesnt want to be with her. She is hot and cold with friends-never having a core group. She will have a few that are around for awhile and then when she gets a boyfriend-poof. She has also always had older friends. Not so much of an issue when she was a sophmore but she is a month away from being 18 and more than once I have heard her start a sentence with "when I turn 18"....
We are going to be having a family meeting with her about what she thinks being 18 and living with us means. I cant just let her do what she wants because she will be a legal adult. She is adhd-typical immature. That I get which is even more of a reason that she needs to learn about consequences.

What she has shared with me is great-we always told our kids to tell us things without fear. But if she shares certain things then I know there is more below the surface.

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Anyway, just wanted to give you support since you were wanting to it and since I do believe what I wrote.
Thank you so much.
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