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  #46  
Old 02-05-18, 11:49 AM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Group #1 (5.1 people out of 100 people)

2.55 people have apples

2.55 people have apples and oranges


Group #2 (5.1 people out of 100 people)

2.55 people have oranges

2.55 people have oranges and apples



Group #1 and Group #2 (10.2 people out of 200 people)

2.55 people have apples

5.1 people have apples and oranges

2.55 people have oranges


(Reduce)

1.27% of people have apples

2.55% of people have apples and oranges

1.27% of people have oranges



The people are twice as likely to have apples and oranges, than apples without oranges, or, oranges without apples.

(The people are twice as likely to have ADHD symptoms and SCT symptoms, than ADHD symptoms without SCT symptoms, or, SCT symptoms without ADHD symptoms)






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Last edited by mildadhd; 02-05-18 at 12:18 PM..
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  #47  
Old 02-05-18, 11:58 AM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Group #1 (100 people)

2.55% of people have apples

2.55% of people have apples and oranges


Group #2 (100 people)

2.55% people have oranges

2.55% people have oranges and apples



Group #1 and Group #2 (200 people)

2.55% of people have apples

5.1% of people have apples and oranges

2.55% of people have oranges


(Reduce)

1.78% of people have apples

2.55% of people have apples and oranges

1.78% of people have oranges






The people are twice as likely to have apples and oranges, than apples without oranges, or, oranges without apples.
Your language supports many mathematical conclusions, all of which could be true.


Cheers,
Ian
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  #48  
Old 02-05-18, 12:34 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Group #1 (5.1 people out of 100 people)

2.55 people have apples

2.55 people have apples and oranges


Group #2 (5.1 people out of 100 people)

2.55 people have oranges

2.55 people have oranges and apples



Group #1 and Group #2 (10.2 people out of 200 people)

2.55 people have apples

5.1 people have apples and oranges

2.55 people have oranges


(Reduce)

1.27% of people have apples

2.55% of people have apples and oranges

1.27% of people have oranges



The people are twice as likely to have apples and oranges, than apples without oranges, or, oranges without apples.

(The adult population are twice as likely to have ADHD symptoms and SCT symptoms, than ADHD symptoms without SCT symptoms, or, SCT symptoms without ADHD symptoms)






M
Missed edit

Edit in red

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  #49  
Old 02-05-18, 12:37 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
Fluppets

Where did the other 2.55% of people with apples and oranges go?


(Namazu, Where did the other 2.55% of the adult population with ADHD symptoms and SCT symptoms go?)
There is no "other 2.55% of the adult population with ADHD and SCT symptoms".

Like Fluppets said, they are the exact same people as the first 2.55% of the adult population with ADHD and SCT symptoms. That's why you only need to count them once. They're not really 2 separate groups. They're the same people, being counted among the ADHDers (because they have ADHD) and among the SCTers (because they also have SCT).

(This is true whether you're talking ADHD and SCT or apples and oranges.)
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  #50  
Old 02-05-18, 01:42 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

(50 + 50) Group #1

(50 + 50) Group #2


Group #1 and Group #2 overlapping by 1/2.

(50 + (50 + 50) + 50)




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  #51  
Old 02-05-18, 01:44 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

ADHD-PI, SCT, Dyspraxia..... can't we just agree that it's all the same?
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  #52  
Old 02-05-18, 01:49 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Maybe it would help to think about it this way:

5% of people have ADHD. (I'm rounding to make it easier...)
In a group of 1000 people, that's 50 people:


Of those 50 people with ADHD, 1/2 (or 25 people) have ADHD only, and the other 1/2 (or 25 people) have SCT, too:


When we then go on to count the people with SCT (5% or 50 people), we recognize that we already counted the 25 of them who also have ADHD (the purple people), and we must include them in our total of 50 SCTers:


So we can see that, in total:
25 people (2.5%) have ADHD alone (orange shading only)
25 people (2.5%) have ADHD + SCT (purple shading)
25 people (2.5%) have SCT alone (blue outline only, no shading)
----------------------------------------
7.5% of the population with ADHD and/or SCT
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  #53  
Old 02-05-18, 02:13 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?



are those old drivers license photos or mug shots?
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  #54  
Old 02-05-18, 02:17 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Missy View Post

are those old drivers license photos or mug shots?
Don't be silly! They are science models randomly sampled from the North American population!
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  #55  
Old 02-05-18, 02:19 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by namazu View Post
Don't be silly! They are science models randomly sampled from the population!
oh God, the Dex isn't cuttin' it
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  #56  
Old 02-05-18, 02:20 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

They were last photos taken before Soylent Green processing.

So like namazu said, um, models for science. Won’t you sample some?


Cheers,
Ian
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  #57  
Old 02-05-18, 02:20 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser_0762 View Post
ADHD-PI, SCT, Dyspraxia..... can't we just agree that it's all the same?
I don't even CARE. This conversation is 4 years old.
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  #58  
Old 02-05-18, 02:22 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeon View Post
They were last photos taken before Soylent Green processing.

So like namazu said, um, models for science. Won’t you sample some?


Cheers,
Ian
well, then I began looking closely at each one...you never know, if this weather keeps up I'll get out the giant looking glass with the buffalo horn handle.
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  #59  
Old 02-05-18, 07:51 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post
If…

2.55% of people have SCT symptoms without ADHD symptoms.

2.55% of people have SCT symptoms and ADHD symptoms

2.55% of people have ADHD symptoms without SCT symptoms

2.55% of people have ADHD symptoms and SCT symptoms



Then…

2.55% of people have SCT symptoms without ADHD symptoms.

5.1% of people have ADHD symptoms and SCT symptoms.

2.55% of people have ADHD symptoms without SCT symptoms.



In other words, people are twice as likely to have both ADHD symptoms and SCT symptoms, than either ADHD symptoms without SCT symptoms, or, SCT symptoms without ADHD symptoms.





M?
Lets try it this way.

Smarty Pants High School only has 90 kids in the senior class this year.

Four of those kids have been diagnosed with ADHD alone.
Their names are Adam, Alexis, Aaron, and Amy.
Four kids is 2.5% of the class total.

Four other kids have been diagnosed with SCT alone.
Their names are Scott, Susan, Steven, and Samantha.
That's another 2.5% of the class total.

Two kids from each group have been diagnosed with both SCT and ADHD.
Their names are Adam and Amy, and Scott and Samantha,
That's 2.5% of the class total again, but these four have already been counted once in either the ADHD or the SCT group.

We don't count them twice just because they have 2 diagnoses.

So the kids in this class are just as likely to have ADHD alone or SCT alone
as they are to have both ADHD and SCT together.
The odds are 2.5% for any of those three diagnoses.



What if the first group of four people was in choir.
And the second group of four people was in speech.
And two kids from choir and two kids from speech were also in basketball ...
you wouldn't count the kids who are doing 2 extra-curricular activities more
than once when you count how many are going to graduate in May.
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Last edited by Lunacie; 02-05-18 at 08:04 PM..
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  #60  
Old 02-05-18, 08:21 PM
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Re: Questions about so called SCT?

Lunacie, doing it with names is a great idea. It makes it much clearer that these are individual people we're talking about!

(That said, the labels in your example are a little confusing. If Adam and Amy have both ADHD and SCT, then they can't be in an "ADHD only" group. Ditto Scott and Samantha, who have both, so can't be in an "SCT only" group. But I think with some tweaks, your example could be very helpful.)

Let's forget about the 5% and 2.5% numbers altogether...

Class has 100 kids.

6 (6%) have ADHD:
Alex, Brandon, Cherise, Donna, Eric, and Freddy

6 (6%) have SCT:
Donna, Eric, Freddy, Gisela, Harry, and Istvan

Of the kids with ADHD...
3 (3%) -- Alex, Brandon, and Cherise --
have ADHD only,
while
3 (3%) -- Donna, Eric, and Freddy --
have both ADHD and SCT.

Of the kids with SCT...
3 (3%) -- Gisela, Harry, and Istvan --
have SCT only,
while
3 (3%) -- Donna, Eric, and Freddy --
have both SCT and ADHD.

How many kids in the class have ADHD and/or SCT?
Let's count them:
1. Alex, 2. Brandon, 3. Cherise <-- ADHD only (3%)
4. Donna, 5. Eric, 6. Freddy <---ADHD + SCT (3%)
7. Gisela, 8. Harry, and 9. Istvan <---SCT only (3%)
---------------------------------------------------
9 kids total / 100 kids in the class = 9%

If we added the original ADHD group (Alex, Brandon, Cherise, Donna, Eric, and Freddy = 6%) to the original SCT group (Donna, Eric, Freddy, Gisela, Harry, and Istvan = 6%)
6% + 6%
or if we added the ADHD-only (Alex, Brandon, and Cherise = 3%) + ADHD+SCT (Donna, Eric, and Freddy = 3%) + SCT+ADHD (Donna, Eric, and Freddy = 3%) + SCT-only (Gisela, Harry, and Istvan = 3%)
3% + 3% + 3% + 3%
we'd get 12% -- which would be incorrect, because there are only 9 kids total (9% of the class) with these diagnoses. We get it wrong this way because we're double-counting Donna, Eric, and Freddy.

--------------------------

Long story short, and more on point -- according to the stats Barkley presented, the numbers of people who have ADHD alone, ADHD + SCT, and SCT alone are roughly equal.

Last edited by namazu; 02-05-18 at 08:39 PM.. Reason: decided against extensive color-coding
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