I hope you dont all hate me but I need to get this out

[pith30]

Drugs, broad term which covers the spectrum from asprin to heroin. I see so many posts about people having trouble getting medicated properly or it is to costly for them to get help. What I dont see is anyone standing up and saying, you know what i am a full grown person with a functioning brain and I should be allowed to make any and all decisions regarding what i put into my body. Have we been so brainwashed by the Government that you guys really believe that the laws surrounding prescription and non prescription drugs are right and just. I was under the impression that freedom was the mantra on which this country was founded. I belive that all drugs should be legalized. I also belive that health care should be free for all. Why, simply because no one, no matter how many guns they have should be able to tell me what to do with my body or when to do it, or if i have this or that or any other reason. Where is the outrage that a corrupt system decides when, what, where, and if you are allowed to injest a substance. Where will things have to get before people wake up?
Pith

[Nucking_Futs]

Originally Posted by pith30

Drugs, broad term which covers the spectrum from asprin to heroin. I see so many posts about people having trouble getting medicated properly or it is to costly for them to get help. What I dont see is anyone standing up and saying, you know what i am a full grown person with a functioning brain and I should be allowed to make any and all decisions regarding what i put into my body. Have we been so brainwashed by the Government that you guys really believe that the laws surrounding prescription and non prescription drugs are right and just. I was under the impression that freedom was the mantra on which this country was founded. I belive that all drugs should be legalized. I also belive that health care should be free for all. Why, simply because no one, no matter how many guns they have should be able to tell me what to do with my body or when to do it, or if i have this or that or any other reason. Where is the outrage that a corrupt system decides when, what, where, and if you are allowed to injest a substance. Where will things have to get before people wake up?
Pith

I believe your wrong. Many addicts are not in the right frame of mind to begin with and are a danger to society when hopped up on some narc. The statistics of violent crime in abusers is incredibly high and that is not even counting petty theft and robbery.

[william tell]

what are the specific drugs you are refering to?
is crystal meth one of the drugs you advocate for legalization ?do know any successful users of that drug ?
how about pcp -
how about Lsd -
Crack -

any of the above addicts of those drugs you can spot a mile away -you know them- slurred speech ,slovenly,thieves ,jobless

or were you talking about Grass ?

[meadd823]

What I dont see is anyone standing up and saying, you know what i am a full grown person with a functioning brain and I should be allowed to make any and all decisions regarding what i put into my body.

I am grown and have put all sort of stuff in my body through out my life time. realistically if you can afford it you can buy what ever you want and do with it what you please. However I do not think things like crack, herion, or LSD should be legal and sold over the counter.

It is the goverments job to up hold the priniciplas of the majority!!!! The majority would prefer "hard drugs" not be legal.

I do not believe the goverment is doing a good job in reflecting what the majority want however I do NOT believe I am "brain washed".

I have a brain and know how to use it. When I wanted to party down I did just that when I wanted to stop with help I did!!!! Please do not refer to me or any one else who doesn't share your prespective as stupid, brain washed or any other name. I am most presuaded by results, the result of using crack, herion, crystal are ?????? NOT GOOD at least not the many "results" I have seen!!!!!

[pith30]

Yes there are drugs that are definitly bad for you, dont do them. And what good has Heroin done? Where it avalible to doctors maybe some people dying of cancer and aids would spend there last days on earth with a little relief. Meth only came into existence because of the lack of drugs avalible that come from the very ground we stand on. I would rather see those who suffer from cancer be able to get the relife that they need. And as far as what you concider "hard" drugs to be, I belive that if access to certian drugs was legal then there would be no market for cheep black market drugs like PCP and crack. It all boils down to weather or not you would rather live in a free society or one in which you are treated like a little kid who has no control over his actions. What will you say when they eventualy outlaw something that you may take for a medical or mental condition?

[Joyous56]

Conceptually, I see your point, and I agree. However, from a practical standpoint, economics play a large part in why things are the way they are. Cost and availablily of any drug is determined in our free market system here in the US....and as things stand, both are determined by the pharmaceutical firms. We could insist that, for us to have more 'freedom', the pharmaceutical firms should be controled by the government.

However, government control of any firm inevitably affects (adversely) the employees....and that's us. (You can bet the upper eschelon will strike a good deal for themselves....and the line workers pay will be reduced so as to reduce costs....or they'll have to work harder to increase volume).

Then there is the Health Insurance Industry. Do you want your health insurance to pay for the meds you choose to consume? Do you want to pay premiums that are raised exponentially, because not only you, but everybody else, wants the 'freedom' to take any drug they want?

It's not a perfect system, by any means. But I read posts from the UK....and I think we've got it lots better.....our health care isn't 'rationed'...we can see the doctor when we want....we don't have to justify to the government our desire to see a specialist....or get a second opinion. Mostly we don't have to wait months to see a doctor. Many of us have employer subsidised insurance....and for a price, we are covered for most medical expenses, including surgery, psychotherapy....and some of us even get a new pair of glasses every two years!

I know you probably didn't want all this Pith.....I wish I could rub a magic lamp and have my way, but alas.....

[stanzen]

The drug that causes the greatest pain and suffering (overdoses, violence --domestic and otherwise-- injuries, auto deaths) also causes birth defects, is known to produce organic brain damage from long-term use. That drug is perfectly legal and is sold in great quantities in my local grocery store, right next to the icecream freezers and candy isle right behind where the milk is sold.

That drug dwarfs the effects upon society of all other illegal drugs combined, that drug is alcohol.

Someone who drinks a quart of scotch wandering the streets, driving from bar to bar, how is that person different than someone who ran through a quantity of crack or crystal meth?

[william tell]

I remember a day when I would argue for your point ,although now I am not there .
We all go through phases in our lives ,many ,in fact .A big one is when you have to be responsible for someone else ,
someone who is helpless and depend on you for their everything .would you advocate your presant thoughts for your son or daughter ? keeping in mind that all drug abuse is self medicating ? notice I said abuse ,I'm not speaking of one toke of crack a year ,or one joint a year .
there are so many things that can fulfil our lives why must it center around a fix ?

[VickiS]

You are right; in theory what you put into your body should be your decision/problem.
BUT, you need to understand that as long as society has to pay the price for the damage caused by these drugs, you are not going to get your wish.

[UnleashTheHound]

Originally Posted by Joyous56

Conceptually, I see your point, and I agree. However, from a practical standpoint, economics play a large part in why things are the way they are. Cost and availablily of any drug is determined in our free market system here in the US....and as things stand, both are determined by the pharmaceutical firms. We could insist that, for us to have more 'freedom', the pharmaceutical firms should be controled by the government.

However, government control of any firm inevitably affects (adversely) the employees....and that's us. (You can bet the upper eschelon will strike a good deal for themselves....and the line workers pay will be reduced so as to reduce costs....or they'll have to work harder to increase volume).

Not only that, but they would become government sanctioned monopolies. Their continued existance would be guaranteed so they would stagnate. For instance they would be less likely to take chances on developing new drugs that may not pan out, probably out of the desire to control costs in the short term.

Then there is the Health Insurance Industry. Do you want your health insurance to pay for the meds you choose to consume? Do you want to pay premiums that are raised exponentially, because not only you, but everybody else, wants the 'freedom' to take any drug they want?

It's not a perfect system, by any means. But I read posts from the UK....and I think we've got it lots better.....our health care isn't 'rationed'...we can see the doctor when we want....we don't have to justify to the government our desire to see a specialist....or get a second opinion. Mostly we don't have to wait months to see a doctor. Many of us have employer subsidised insurance....and for a price, we are covered for most medical expenses, including surgery, psychotherapy....and some of us even get a new pair of glasses every two years!

The British NHS is the perfect example of a government sanctioned monopoly I was talking about above. They are hesitant to sanction new areas of medicine because they know it will increase their costs. So things like adult ADHD are looked upon skeptically.

I'm not going to argue that our system is perfect. Things need to be done to expand coverage to that middle group that earns too much for Medicaid and not enough to afford a private plan. But we need to be smart about it. The 'uninsured' number that is often quoted in the media is misleading because it counts things like people who have the means but opt out of insurance b/c they don't think it's a good value (often young people who pay more in than they receive back), people who might be uninsured for a month or so due to a job change, and people who qualify for medicaid but haven't enrolled. So we need to cut through all that, see what the real problems are and address those. Well enough for now!

[T-Bass]

First there were drugs, then came Psychology.

T-Bass

[meadd823]

First there were drugs, then came Psychology.

Drug induced psychology I like it!!!!!!!

I belive that all drugs should be legalized. I also belive that health care should be free for all.

Most useful drugs are legal just only through prescription for the ones with addictive potiential, with exception of alcohol which is worse than marjuana, but not as bad as say crack!!!!! My opnion only.

Drugs being made illegal do keep people from doing them I am an example. I do not smoke pot because it is illegal. If I do "partake" and I get caught I would loose my nursing license. I can drink alcohol which to me is more addictive but I won't loose my nursing license unless I get a conviction for DWI or am found intoxicated while at work.

It does not make scense to me but it is a boundary that is in place and if I want to keep nursing license I have to "play by the rules". All healthy societies have boundaries, as do healthy individuals. I am not brain washed I just do not think "partaking" is worth loosing my license over.

No matter how many laws are passed or how few laws we obide by not all will be happy.

So if you believe all drugs should be legal and medical care free what have you done to "promote" your cause???? You do have a right to work within the system for changes in our current laws. A daunting feet to say the least but you do have the right to do so.

would you advocate your presant thoughts for your son or daughter ?

Well said William!!!! Having children changed my out look drasticially and NO I would not avocate having crack, herion, ect... legal because it would make it easier for my children to obtain. So I guess I am writting from a parential perspective. Thanks for the insight.

[bcaddkid]

What's the difference between someone who medicates their ADD with ritalin and someone who medicates their addiction problem with heroin/cocaine/meth/whatever else?

The ADD sufferer is considered to have a medical issue, while the addict is considered a criminal, all because someone somewhere decided that some drugs were to be deemed "illegal".

Has it ever occured to anyone that making something "illegal" encourages MORE crime and violence? Or that drinking, coffee use, and the smoking of cigarettes (all legal products), are all acts of drug abuse?

It's painfully obvious to me that none of you live in a place where drugs have actually had an impact on the community. I'd love to show you the downtown eastside of my city and what ridiculous, assbackwards enforcement of silly outdated drug laws can do to people. Marginalization and poverty are but two of the many effects. Thankfully, we're slowly understanding that treating addicts with compassion, while being ruthless with those who exploit their problems IE drug cartels and importers, is a better way to go. The first step is giving addicts access to information and a non-judgemental support system, including a safe, controlled supply of drugs that aren't laced with all sorts of substances to up some drug dealer's profit margin, and eventually, rehab. No ADD sufferer would ever just "quit" drugs cold turkey, they'd wean themselves off, and this works well for people addicted to street drugs as well. Societal support in helping these people get back on their feet is also important. Realistic welfare programs, job placements, and good old fashion helping each other out and being respectful of all go a long way. I'm happy to say that we're at least making some progress here.

If you want to keep drugs away from your children, nothing works better than parental involvement in their lives. No child who feels loved, respected, and with a good idea of the effects of drugs would EVER consider using them. Hiding under the idea that "drugs are illegal" and avoiding the subject with your kids, as I see too many parents and even society in general doing today, will only result in problems for those kids. In other words, you have to PARENT your children. Don't expect school to do it, don't expect society to do it for you, and don't rely on TV or the internet either. You had children, RAISE THEM. It worked just fine for me and the hundreds of other people I know, it can work for yours.

Education works a whole lot better than enforcement.

[mctavish23]

Interesting post. I agree that economics is a huge factor.

One of the other prominent forces that is often behind the scenes is the impact of the Managed Care/third party payer "insurance " companies.

They help "set the stage" for the economics driving the health care industry as much as the pharmaceutical companies.

In terms of "freedom of choice," the severity of my ADHD is such that I need my meds to work to be able to cognitively do my job.

When they stop working, we (meaning my psychiatrist and my wife as my partner and I ) look to make the necessary changes.

[bcaddkid]

Originally Posted by mctavish23

In terms of "freedom of choice," the severity of my ADHD is such that I need my meds to work to be able to cognitively do my job.

I feel you on the meds. I've found myself to also be in need of them. The effects they have on my ability to stay organized and focused has been tremendous so far. The other thing that has helped me is being able to recognize that I have a problem, and finding realistic every day techniques to deal with it in a positive fashion. One wouldn't work without the other. Drugs have certainly helped me.